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We need a better assault rifle!


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#101
Misfiring

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JustAnotherVanguard wrote...

Mass Effect does not have an AR problem. 


Yes, it does.

Falcon - One of the best utility guns in the game, penultimate Phantom control (GPS is ultimate), now lightweight for an AR, incredible for applying ammo powers.  One of the best guns in the game when filling its niche.


The Falcon is not an assault rifle, it is a granade launcher.

Saber (which you didn't list) - Love it on Batarians, Krogans and the Destroyer.  Headshot machine, sold damage per shot, works at any range from CQC to all the way across the map


The Saber is not an assault rifle, it is a sniper rifle without a scope.

Mattock - Not my cup of tea, but I have watched others do very well with it.


The Mattoch is not an assault rifle, it is a sniper rifle without a scope.

Revenant - See Mattock. 


The Revenant is not an assault rifle, it is a light machine gun. And I'm not making up that distinction. In Far Cry 2 e.g. ARs went into the primary weapon slot while LMGs went into the heavy weapon slot.

Harrier - You're wrong.  No, seriously, that's my answer.  It may well be the single best gun in the game. 


Yes, the Harrier is alright until you run out of ammo.

PPR - Unlimited ammo, crazy powerful even at level I on a few builds, can't wait to get it leveled up so it works on more classes


I'm not sure what the PPR is but it is not an assault rifle. But it probably comes closer to one than the Falcon or Saber.

Typhoon - I'm personally still feeling this one out.  I didn't get it until post-nerf and have only played a handful of games with it so far. 


The Typhoon is a light machine gun and not an assault rilfe.

Seven different ARs, that are all used and liked by many players, and all serve a different purpose.


Sevent different random weapons, only one of them a real assault rifle. And that is the problem: BioWare uses the assault rifle category for random weapon design that don't fit into other categories.

There are only three real assault rifles in this game:
- Avenger (Common)
- Phaeston (Uncommon)
- Harrier (Ultra Rare)

What I would like to see is the proper rare assault rifle. Something like a Phaeston with more damage and the same weight.


There is one proper rare AR. Geth Pulse Rifle. And it's good. For engineers and adapts anyway. Also, the Mattock is a semi-auto AR, not a sniper rifle.

Problem with PPR is you need piercing mod and incendiary rounds to make it good against armor, something which the typhoon is naturally good at. Also, waiting for PPR to recharge is slower than reloading the typhoon, and if you accidentally drain it to zero, you're in for a very long wait.

#102
Drummernate

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Saber...

Doesn't do damage versus boss units...

Since when?

Mine does like 1-2 bars per shot without equipment on Platinum.

#103
BridgeBurner

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Why are people complaining about the harrier's ammo capacity?

If you play this game properly you should never be far from an ammo box; particularly on the newer maps, ammo boxes are all over the place. You only run out of ammo using the harrier if you're playing Happy Campers on Firebase White or you're on a hack /escort objective in which case burn your thermal packs.

Hiding behind the firebase white kitchen counter all game without an ammo box is going to mean you'll run out. I have no real issue with ammo on the harrier; it takes only 10 seconds MAXIMUM to make a dash to an ammo box and rejoin the fray.

Or even, you could force spawns in such a manner that the enemies are spawning near ammo boxes, that way you can engage the enemy, destroy them, refill and go off looking for other prey.

#104
Das Rouse

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Does Adrenaline Rush have any effect on the PPR?

#105
Das Rouse

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Wow, @Justanothervanguard, wow.

#106
shaorang

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ARs are good enough now, I think. but additional reinforcement will be very welcomed.

#107
Invader Nemesis

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BjornDaDwarf wrote...

Harrier - You're wrong.  No, seriously, that's my answer.  It may well be the single best gun in the game


This. Totally agree

#108
Guest_Lathrim_*

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Drummernate wrote...

Saber...

Doesn't do damage versus boss units...

Since when?

Mine does like 1-2 bars per shot without equipment on Platinum.


Just to clarify, does that happen when your Saber is being used by a character that is not an Infiltrator, Soldier and the GE?

#109
dysturbed0ne

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I didn't read all the responses here , but I don't think we need a better AR.

The Harrier is arguably one of the best and it performs well on gold/platinum, on more than just Demo's. I have also seen the PPR and Typhoon do extremely well. Not every weapon is meant for gold/platinum and even some that do well need to be leveled and amp'd, as it should be for the higher difficulties. No one (save the godly GI user) should be able to walk into gold or platinum with a level I AR and no amps and just start laying waste to things.

On gold/platinum (more so platinum) you need specific effective builds that will compliment your weapons, and vise versa.

We have good AR's, if they came up with another that was better than the Harrier, there would be OP cries everywhere.

Modifié par dysturbed0ne, 14 septembre 2012 - 01:52 .


#110
N7 Panda

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Pyroninja42 wrote...

Elecbender wrote...

YOU need a better rifle.

I need a melee weapon.


Sniper rifle by the barrel.

Swing it like a club.

Problem solved.

That said, ballistic fists would be cool.


I want a frying pan.

#111
deaths origin

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Zaidra wrote...

Saber: 
it works against lighter enemies, but against things like banshees and primes, it doesn't do damage at all (due to the lack of headshot bonus). 

ok best way for a better assult rifle return the saber to its original glory it use to kick ass but then they mega nerfed it and there is a thing called the firing range on sp which you can use to kinda test weapon builds.

#112
DAN1EL86

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The Harrier and Saber are the only ones worth using in Gold and Platinum. The others excel at "Tickling" enemies.

#113
Drummernate

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Lathrim wrote...

Drummernate wrote...

Saber...

Doesn't do damage versus boss units...

Since when?

Mine does like 1-2 bars per shot without equipment on Platinum.


Just to clarify, does that happen when your Saber is being used by a character that is not an Infiltrator, Soldier and the GE?


It only does one bar on those characters.

Why would you use a Saber on a non-Infiltrator/Soldier anyways?...

That is like using a Javelin on a Cerberus Adept.

Modifié par Drummernate, 14 septembre 2012 - 02:08 .


#114
Mendelevosa

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JustAnotherVanguard wrote...

Mass Effect does not have an AR problem. 


Yes, it does.

Falcon - One of the best utility guns in the game, penultimate Phantom control (GPS is ultimate), now lightweight for an AR, incredible for applying ammo powers.  One of the best guns in the game when filling its niche.


The Falcon is not an assault rifle, it is a granade launcher.

Saber (which you didn't list) - Love it on Batarians, Krogans and the Destroyer.  Headshot machine, sold damage per shot, works at any range from CQC to all the way across the map


The Saber is not an assault rifle, it is a sniper rifle without a scope.

Mattock - Not my cup of tea, but I have watched others do very well with it.


The Mattoch is not an assault rifle, it is a sniper rifle without a scope.

Revenant - See Mattock. 


The Revenant is not an assault rifle, it is a light machine gun. And I'm not making up that distinction. In Far Cry 2 e.g. ARs went into the primary weapon slot while LMGs went into the heavy weapon slot.

Harrier - You're wrong.  No, seriously, that's my answer.  It may well be the single best gun in the game. 


Yes, the Harrier is alright until you run out of ammo.

PPR - Unlimited ammo, crazy powerful even at level I on a few builds, can't wait to get it leveled up so it works on more classes


I'm not sure what the PPR is but it is not an assault rifle. But it probably comes closer to one than the Falcon or Saber.

Typhoon - I'm personally still feeling this one out.  I didn't get it until post-nerf and have only played a handful of games with it so far. 


The Typhoon is a light machine gun and not an assault rilfe.

Seven different ARs, that are all used and liked by many players, and all serve a different purpose.


Sevent different random weapons, only one of them a real assault rifle. And that is the problem: BioWare uses the assault rifle category for random weapon design that don't fit into other categories.

There are only three real assault rifles in this game:
- Avenger (Common)
- Phaeston (Uncommon)
- Harrier (Ultra Rare)

What I would like to see is the proper rare assault rifle. Something like a Phaeston with more damage and the same weight.


So if an assault rifle is not fullly automatic, then it's really a sniper without a scope?:huh:

#115
Mendelevosa

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Lathrim wrote...

Drummernate wrote...

Saber...

Doesn't do damage versus boss units...

Since when?

Mine does like 1-2 bars per shot without equipment on Platinum.


Just to clarify, does that happen when your Saber is being used by a character that is not an Infiltrator, Soldier and the GE?


Um, why would you use the Saber with anything other than those characters you listed? Using a Saber on any other class is like seeing an Adept with a Crusader and Typhoon, it just doesn't make sense. People need to start realizing that not every weapon is meant to be awesome with every class. That's part of the whole balancing attempt by adding the weight system and adding different passive bonuses based on the class. There is a reason why Adepts don't get the same weapon damage passive bonuses as Soldiers and Infiltrators. Finding which weapons synergizes best with which characters is important, or you end up remaining a confused nooblet.

Modifié par Mendelevosa, 14 septembre 2012 - 02:22 .


#116
Guest_Lathrim_*

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Mendelevosa wrote...

Lathrim wrote...

Drummernate wrote...

Saber...

Doesn't do damage versus boss units...

Since when?

Mine does like 1-2 bars per shot without equipment on Platinum.


Just to clarify, does that happen when your Saber is being used by a character that is not an Infiltrator, Soldier and the GE?


Um, why would you use the Saber with anything other than those characters you listed? Using a Saber on any other class is like seeing an Adept with a Crusader and Typhoon, it just doesn't make sense. People need to start realizing that not every weapon is meant to be awesome with every class. That's part of the whole balancing attempt by adding the weight system and adding different passive bonuses based on the class. There is a reason why Adepts don't get the same weapon damage passive bonuses as Soldiers and Infiltrators. Finding which weapons synergizes best with which characters is important, or you end up remaining a confused nooblet.


I wouldn't. It is simple curiosity.

#117
deaths origin

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JustAnotherVanguard wrote...

Mass Effect does not have an AR problem. 


Yes, it does.

Falcon - One of the best utility guns in the game, penultimate Phantom control (GPS is ultimate), now lightweight for an AR, incredible for applying ammo powers.  One of the best guns in the game when filling its niche.


The Falcon is not an assault rifle, it is a granade launcher.

Saber (which you didn't list) - Love it on Batarians, Krogans and the Destroyer.  Headshot machine, sold damage per shot, works at any range from CQC to all the way across the map


The Saber is not an assault rifle, it is a sniper rifle without a scope.

Mattock - Not my cup of tea, but I have watched others do very well with it.


The Mattoch is not an assault rifle, it is a sniper rifle without a scope.

Revenant - See Mattock. 


The Revenant is not an assault rifle, it is a light machine gun. And I'm not making up that distinction. In Far Cry 2 e.g. ARs went into the primary weapon slot while LMGs went into the heavy weapon slot.

Harrier - You're wrong.  No, seriously, that's my answer.  It may well be the single best gun in the game. 


Yes, the Harrier is alright until you run out of ammo.

PPR - Unlimited ammo, crazy powerful even at level I on a few builds, can't wait to get it leveled up so it works on more classes


I'm not sure what the PPR is but it is not an assault rifle. But it probably comes closer to one than the Falcon or Saber.

Typhoon - I'm personally still feeling this one out.  I didn't get it until post-nerf and have only played a handful of games with it so far. 


The Typhoon is a light machine gun and not an assault rilfe.

Seven different ARs, that are all used and liked by many players, and all serve a different purpose.


Sevent different random weapons, only one of them a real assault rifle. And that is the problem: BioWare uses the assault rifle category for random weapon design that don't fit into other categories.

There are only three real assault rifles in this game:
- Avenger (Common)
- Phaeston (Uncommon)
- Harrier (Ultra Rare)

What I would like to see is the proper rare assault rifle. Something like a Phaeston with more damage and the same weight.

'looks at long post' hmmmmmmmm troll much assult rifles arn't just full autos alot of them are single shot, saber, or 3 shot, avenger, for ammo conservation and most modern assult rifles have a grenade launcher attached to them

#118
scot15

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My Mattock dont like people complaining about assault rifles. She gets the crazy idea they're complaining about her. Now if you apologise, like I know you're going to. I might be able to convince her you didn't mean it.

#119
Arppis

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I agree, most of the FUN assault rifles don't just do enough damage. By fun I mean AR that has automatic fire. Harrier is one of the most satisfying guns in AR-slot. Shame it has low ammo.

I really wish they would buff some of the automatic rifles.

#120
GriM_AoD

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I don't have this issue, the GPR (even pre buff) , Avenger, Mattock, ALL ARs are gold viable (headshots/ammo mods help alot), it's just platinum where they fall down, but platinum is just boss killing mode, and gets boring quickly to me, only if you could gold (not just boss killing) with mixed enemy races like platinum.
ARs are fine, some could use a minor buff, but no more.
@Arppis the low ammo is what balances the killyness of the harrier

#121
Pedactor

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First off, let me preface what I'm about to say with the fact that I don't have a Saber, so I won't comment on it. Same goes for the Collector Rifle, but that thing according to all feedback is absolute junk.

This extends past AR's. Automatic weapons in general are bad.

You can claim that I'm a fool, but coming from Battlefield 3 and Modern Warfare, the only Assault Rifle that functions as one is the Harrier. It is strong damage. The drawback they have built into it is its diminished ammunition capacity so you spend more time humping an ammo crate and most of the time it simply isn't viable in Platinums when you have 2 banshees, 2 primes, and 2 phantoms dancing around ready to scramble your face while you run to refill your ammo.

My opinion is as follows:

Top Tier:

PPR: Boss killing AR, drawbacks are obvious. Nasty gun if you are good dealing with its mechanics. Personally I'm not. The biggest drawback is its range, honestly. While its damage is very strong when ramped up, the class that works best with it (Destroyer) doesn't worry about cooldowns, so you have a Piranha, which when accuracy and clip-specced is nearly redundant on range and actually benefits from hard cover usage by tightening its spread even more.

Harrier: With the Demolisher, this is an outstanding gun. Its damage is very strong. It behaves like an assault rifle should. It's the equivalent of a M5 in today's terms. Accuracy is great enough to snipe with. Ammo drawbacks are bad. Can be a great complementary weapon for longer range Atlas-Crotch removal or something like that on say a vorcha or Krogan, but tough to use as a main weapon.

Indra: Hip fire penalty is a major drawback (how the hell does aiming down sights increase damage per shot?) but this is a powerful gun when the scope isn't a hindrance.

Hurricane: Here lies your most powerful fully automatic weapon. Stability damper and Clip or Heat Sink turn this into a similar damage-to-harrier gun with higher capacity and slightly less accuracy at longer ranges. With ULM combined with a Pistol, this thing can be amazing.

Best of the Bunch: Hurricane

Worst of the Bunch: Indra (hipfire penalty is unneeded, scope is punishing in many cases) As my buddy said, it needs its category changed to AR and the Saber needs swapped to SR.

Tier two:

Here you have purpose-driven guns:

Striker and Falcon: These are defensive weapons that can set up bursts and limit a lot of possible incoming damage on a squad. Their ability to stagger is amazing for supporting your team and allowing them to headshot everything. They can insure that your biotic abilities like Warp, Throw, and Pull are not dodged since a target will be stunlocked prior to power usage. The AoE ability to spread ammo powers can set up bursts gallore.

Revenant: Personally I don't see how people use this outside of Marksman, Hunter mode, or Devastator mode, which is really where the gun ends up being pretty strong. It is relatively available, too making it pretty damned good in the right hands. It's a limited niche.

There's no best/worst here. These are specialty weapons.

Tier 3:

Here's where we're getting below the Mendoza line outside of the Mattock (which is semi Automatic).

Mattock: Semi-auto, great gun for limited manifests or lighter weight applications but once you get a Carnifex or Paladin, there's simply very little reason to use it. The Viper is in the mix here, too. I used it religiously until I got the Harrier. Carpal-tunnel city.

Phaeston/Avenger: If find these two very similar, honestly. The Phaeston is a slightly upgraded Avenger, which actually was borderline overpowered for a common until the Stability Damper was released for SMGs.

Tempest: It's a diet Hurricane. Shoots a little straighter baseline, but less damage than the Hurricane. Not bad. Stab damper made this thing pretty solid.

Hornet: If you have a Stability damper, this is a very strong and accurate little gun. Slots somewhere in between the Hurricane and Tempest but again, Carpal Tunnel. Very good for casters due to light weight.

GPSMG: So here's my first fully auto weapon that I started using over the Mattock. Shoots straight as an arrow, and for some reason this little guy is outstanding against armor. Ramp up is a bit of PITA, but nowhere near as bad as the PPR and the shots don't gain damage as far as I know after ramp-up. It simply gains firing rate. It gets special mention since its the only SMG that benefits from ULM without a ULM Pistol equipped, too.

Best of T3: Mattock. Damage-to-weight ratio is strong. Wrist health disaster is not.

Worst: Phaeston/Avenger: Outclassed by the SMG's in here.

Poop Tier:

Geth Pulse Rifle: Gives you a rash. Damage is below trash. No stagger. This thing needs much more love to not be crap. I don't care if its weight needs increased. It is worse than the Phaeston and Avenger and they already fill the slot of being lightweight, accurate, and having decent ammunition capacities.

Typhoon: I mean, UR, weighs as much as a house, terrible against health, redundant in its purpose with the PPR, which is lighter. WTF wai nerf?

Locust: Somebody please explain to me why it even exists.

Eagle: Lol. Would be killer if you could eradicate your foes with hugs. If they nerfed this gun one iota it would heal your foes and one-shot you.

Shuriken: At least it's a starter gun...........

Vindicator: Honestly, this thing isn't that bad, but I'm going to underrate here and admit I did so. It needs a burst RoF buff, an accuracy buff, and a weight buff. Its damage isn't bad. Biggest issue is that its a 3-burst semi-auto and doesn't really serve a purpose at all. With those changes and possibly a further damage buff, this could be a pretty cool gun.

Bottom line:

Guns should have been balanced downward from the Harrier, not upwards to it.

What I mean by that is that only the Harrier truly functions like what most people would expect an Assault Rifle to be. It has solid stopping power, good accuracy, and weighs as much as you would expect.

There's a rather large hole between the Harrier/Hurricane and the next automatic, and it legitimately should be populated by the Geth Plasma Rifle as it is a Rare or a more accurate Revenant. You can argue that the Mattock fits that slot, but the gun is punishing to your health to use or requires a turbo controller/key macro.

My suggestion is this:

Release the Blood Pack SMG next week. It fixes most issues since it hits that niche of having good ammo capacity and doing damage more in line to what full auto weapons should.

The ADAS would also be interesting for Adepts and Vanguards. Just keep it lightweight.

#122
C0MB0

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The Harrier with a Demolisher is good. Keeps you supplied with ammo. The Particle Beam Rifle is amazing on a Destroyer. Use 2 assault rifle amps and AP4 ammo and melt any, yes ANY, enemy with 1 clip on platinum difficulty. Even at level 1 it is very good.

That makes 2 good assault rifles.

#123
GriM_AoD

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Anything is good on the destroyer. The PPR is deadly on my QFE too (just giving a ppr example tha isn't a destroyer)

#124
Testosticore

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I think the problem is that it comes down to "best weapons" and "best classes" and "best builds" in this game. There isn't much uniqueness. It's about highest damage output and you can only really get that on a minority of builds/load-outs. They tried to make the game difficult while simultaneously making every weapon usable by every class for any role AND they did away with boss weak-points. Throw in a little shield-gate and there aren't many viable builds for fast, clean games.

Everything in this game is viable for every difficulty if you don't mind 40 minute gold games. Now you have shotty wielding GIs claiming their godly status and scoffing at anyone trying to use a common soldier brandishing what they really, really want to be a support-by-fire weapon because the damage output is ****, causing you have to play differently (and much slower).

I'm a sniper by nature in most games. I don't often snipe in ME3 because it's just not worth it unless I have a lot of time or I feel like being ridiculed for having a score equal to half the third person's score. I can hit a phantom head on the move 8/10 times. Shield gate and no-crits-on-bosses really screws that right out the window, though, and I'm not rewarded. I really, really want to but it doesn't happen often.

I don't care much for adepts in practice (I love them in theory) because I feel it should be a nearly pure caster class. When you have an adept using weight reduction to throw on a super strong weapon to get cooldowns that match mine with ****ty weapons there's no way to out deeps said high weapon/biotic damage player. The Sentinel is supposed to be a hybrid between the caster/soldier roles, but there's no reason at all to take it over an adept because you can have more power usage with the same ballistic output.

Aside from the PPRs and Harriers on the destroyers, the assault rifles are just generally lacking as assault rifles. They're more like "accentuate your powers" riffles. The Indra pretty much makes both of them look like a soggy hobbit peen, anyways.

Players aren't as rewarded for using the weapons they enjoy in this game nearly as much as if they just use the pro builds/load-outs. They're also quite often considered bad if they try anything but what's been proven to be God Tier, rather than considered to be having fun or role playing in a role playing game.

I love my soldiers. I love the phaeston's model and mechanics. I'd love to be able to use it in gold without being laughed at, voted out or ignored when I get downed (for being bad anyways). I often get things like "you're really going to take that damage cloak infiltrator in there with nothing but that widow? lol".

Yes, yes I am. I'm going to pretend shield gate isn't stupid as hell and bosses take crit damage and I'm going to have fun playing a sniper class with a sniper. Screw you, I like seeing heads pop. I don't care if it takes two shots and I have the lowest score.

I've spent so much time on this post I'm pretty sure I've started rambling and I don't even remember what I said at the start. I hope it makes at least minor sense.

#125
Testosticore

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Pedactor wrote...

Locust: Somebody please explain to me why it even exists.



The locust actually has really nice dps on a destroyer spec'd for stability with stability gear and both ammo mods on it. It winds up putting tons of decent damage shots on point incredibly fast. Great for headshots. In my experience it out headshot deeps a GPR if you slap it on said destroyer, and most other assault rifles tbh. It's one of my favorite destroyer sidearms. But that's on a destroyer, which makes most guns good, and even then there are vastly stronger guns to choose.

Also, I agree with your assessment of assault rifles based on FPS games (and real live firing of ARs). None of these but the harrier functions as a true assault rifle. Most feel more like carbines and large, clunky SMGs.

Modifié par Testosticore, 14 septembre 2012 - 04:05 .