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DA2 Art Style is one of the most beautiful I have ever seen - why all the hate?


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#251
Augustei

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SomniariKess1124 wrote...

Anderfels: Vikings/German
Nevarra: sounds like a place that would be cold, so maybe russia would fit that bill
Antiva: Italian
Rivain: Spain
Tevinter: I... really dont know.
Par Vollen: Maybe Jungle Island theme?
Seheron: maybe more Spain


I think it more like
Anderfels: Russia
Nevarra: no idea, maybe Prussia or Greek so far all thats mentioned of them is how they treat their dead which is  quite egyptian.
Antiva: Spain / Italy cross
Rivain: Morocco
Tevinter: Byzantine Empire
Qunari: Ottomon Empire

#252
schalafi

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One thing that impressed me about DA 2 art was the architecture of the dungeons. Yes, I know they were overused, but if you look up at the ceilings in some of them, they were impressive. How they made the supports for them were imaginative and realistic, imo. They could have just left blank black space, but they didn't. So some real care was taken with them. Same with some of the buildings in Kirlwall. I kept wondering where the falling dust was coming from and when I looked up you could see a missing part of the ceiling and roof, which I found realistic. I don't think the art was bad in the game, I just wished there were more outdoor scenes than just Sundermont and Wounded Coast.

#253
iheartbob

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Cimeas wrote...

I recently replayed Dragon Age 2, and I realise how fantastic it actually looks. It is a beautiful game. First time through I thought "Oh boring greys and browns" but the style, the dust, the textures etc.. are fantastic and beautiful.

Image IPB



All of these comparisons of DA:II to Skyrim remind me of all the "Is it Art?" threads on the ME3 boards.  Art is a completely relative concept, and Skyrim/DA are two completely different games.

Skyrim is absolutely beautiful, as it should be, as TES has had ... what, a decade to improve upon their game design?  If I'm running around in a sandbox game I fully expect the game to look as "realistic" as it possibly can to help me emerse myself into the world.

I really enjoyed the graphic design in DA:II as well, and I think a fairer comparison would be to DA:O ... and I felt the design was vastly improved in the second game.  I also think the design improved with their two DLCs (the one from MoTA being a perfect indication that the game designers of Bioware can render an outside landscape as looking "realistic" too.)  And I imagine they'll only get better.

But hey, that's just one person's opinion. Image IPB

Modifié par iheartbob, 16 septembre 2012 - 01:43 .


#254
Rawgrim

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I couldn`t stand the artstyle. It reeked of anime, to be honest. Elves with donkey ears, gravity not being an issue during fights, weapons seemingly weightless, and weapons being oversized. I had to force myself to play through the game, in all fairness. If people like anime - good for them. I just can`t stand it.


As a side note: changing artstyle in the middle of a series is a bad call. People will belive they get a certain product, and when they fire the game up, they get an unpleasant surprise (not everyone, of course).

#255
BigBad

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I really didn't like the art style in DAII. Kirkwall was the most boring city ever to look at. It was bleak, bland, and empty, and it didn't change at all. Over the course of a decade, through a qunari invasion, and simmering in the throes of a Mage/Templar cold war (before it heats up), and not a single NPC so much as moves to a different corner. The Wounded Coast felt like it was bare and desolate and uninteresting, nothing but wide, flat sandy paths with a couple trees decorating the invisible walls on your way to whatever quest point is forcing you to make the long-ass meandering trek from the map starting area. Sundermount was sort of interesting . . . except that there are only really two or three places to go there and you keep having to go back and it never changes. Now, some of these complaints were fixed in the DLC, where they showcased new scenery, but overall, I felt that DAII was bleak and bland and not at all interesting to look at. Possibly the best place to see this is to compare Lothering and surrounding countryside from DA:O with the area outside Lothering from the DAII prologue.

#256
EpicBoot2daFace

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thats1evildude wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Look at all the screenshots of DA2 presented in this thread. Kirkwall is almost completely empty.


That's because Kirkwall's populace tends to stick to walls and corners. Which isn't a bad thing, as you're generally running through the city with a group of four and you don't need to keep tripping over NPCs.

It isn't?

Image IPB

Looks pretty bad to me.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 16 septembre 2012 - 02:25 .


#257
StElmo

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

Kirkwall being empty is not part of the art style.


NPC's aren't really the "art style" they are graphical limitations.

art style, or aesthetic of DA 2 is stunning.

#258
StElmo

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coles4971 wrote...

Clertar wrote...

 I think the art style is beautiful, too:

 

 

 



All those beautiful greys and browns and that vibrant washed out look!

This is beauty:

http://www.gophoto.i...pg#.UFTIJo1lRWE 

Seriously, I just googled this and thought "wow, this is stunning". Pictures of DA2 don't make me think that at all, and DA:O pictures make me more nostalgic than in awe of beautiful graphics.


Witcher 2 looks awful if you have SSAO and Bloom on, ergh. The aesthetic is good, but I like DA2's better more character.

#259
StElmo

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EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Look at all the screenshots of DA2 presented in this thread. Kirkwall is almost completely empty.


That's because Kirkwall's populace tends to stick to walls and corners. Which isn't a bad thing, as you're generally running through the city with a group of four and you don't need to keep tripping over NPCs.

It isn't?



Looks pretty bad to me.


You must hate team fortress, skyward sword, okami or any other game that isn't "realistic' intone then. DA is supposed to be somewhat surreal, rather then completely REAL.

#260
StElmo

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Cimeas wrote...

I recently replayed Dragon Age 2, and I realise how fantastic it actually looks.  It is a beautiful game.  First time through I thought "Oh boring greys and browns" but the style, the dust, the textures etc.. are fantastic and beautiful.  

Image IPB

[IMG]http://www.weebly.com/uploads/3/0/3/8/3038341/custom_themes/294603599317007233/files/Screenshot20120711195010793.jpg?1347748939950/IMG]

[img]http://www.weebly.com/uploads/3/0/3/8/3038341/custom_themes/294603599317007233/files/Screenshot20120711231332660.jpg?1347748964957 [/img]

[img]http://www.weebly.com/uploads/3/0/3/8/3038341/custom_themes/294603599317007233/files/Screenshot20120712152814343.jpg?1347748991772[/img]

[img]http://www.weebly.com/uploads/3/0/3/8/3038341/custom_themes/294603599317007233/files/Screenshot20120712182253541.jpg?1347749010909[/img]


Absolutely, if you have AA and AF up it looks like a painting.

#261
ElitePinecone

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It's no doubt been said before, but I did prefer Origins' more grounded, realistic or 'generic' (to use Goldman's definition) aesthetic to DA2's, even if the latter was graphically sharper and could do more with the engine.

The sequel was certainly distinctive, but even when it tackled more Origins-esque castles, ruins and natural environments in DLC like MoTA, I felt an odd sense of artificiality compared to the previous game. Everything looked like it belonged in a fantasy game, whereas in Origins the emphasis felt like it was on a more realistic presentation.

#262
thats1evildude

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EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

It isn't?

Looks pretty bad to me.


To each his own. I'd rather have empty streets with lots of room than to be bumping into NPCs all the time when I'm running around, or worse, in battle.

I know the people are there. I can see them lurking in doorways and shadows. I don't need to see them clogging the streets and getting in my goddamn way. This is an acceptable break from reality.

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...


Image IPB


Take this space for example. Over the course of the game, I will have to fight at least three street gangs, one group of qunari and one group of templars/mages backed by shades in this single avenue. I need room to fight those enemies. I don't care that, as a result, the street looks devoid of people.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 16 septembre 2012 - 03:39 .


#263
cJohnOne

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I'm surprised that people didn't mention that the monsters look bad. Is that Art Style?

#264
jillabender

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

Yeah, the change in how the elves look (or the dwarves are proportioned, for example) are pretty clearly a style change. As to why there aren't a ton of each of them sharing Kirkwall with a ton of humans, that's another matter.


Just to clarify, when I say that some of the environments in DA2 had too much empty space to feel lived-in, I'm not referring to a lack of people, but to the proportions of the environments themselves.

For example, the aravels in the Dalish camp in DA:O were large and detailed enough to look as though they could serve as homes, or be modified to serve other purposes as needed – the aravels in DA2 looked as though their purpose was to sit around in the background.

That being said, I'm confident that DA3 will feature more varied environments, with more detail and atmosphere than we saw in DA2.

#265
TEWR

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I didn't mind Kirkwall's aesthetic. Graphically, it wasn't that appealing, but aside from a few things I was fine with how it looked. Obviously, reusing the environments was just bad.

The environments anyway. People were hit and miss -- usually humans, but occasionally Elves like Nyssa -- but what I really had a problem with were the DAII Hurlocks, Hurlock Emissaries, and Ogres. And also, the unused Shriek model.

The Genlocks, Genlock Alphas, and the Hurlock Alphas are the only ones that got my approval, save of course for some armor and weapons tweaking that need be done in the future.

MotA, despite its story flaws at the end, had a great looking environment using DAII's engine. I think MotA showed the potential of the engine in its current form, and how much potential it has if it's tweaked a bit more -- like maybe it should've been had Bioware worked on DAII a bit longer.

Legacy was also great once you got into the actual Warden base.


Lotion Soronnar wrote...

saying something looks like FF is derogatory, not praise.


I'd argue that, based on the following pictures.


Image IPB

Image IPB
Image IPB

(Okay, I like Basch. So what? Image IPB)

Image IPB

Image IPB

Auron was actually based off of a real world historical concept of ronin in terms of clothing. In terms of his actual appearance, he's not silly, stupid, or outlandish.

Well, maybe the sword is, but who cares? It's Auron.

http://t2.gstatic.co...h80jTUKdZRhYDqw

If my computer wasn't lagging so bad, I'd post some more character pics as well as some environment pics.

Not all of the designs for FF are "silly, stupid, and all-around WTF". FFXII actually had a lot of great designs for characters, and I'd go so far as to say X and XIII were also good in that regard. Their environments are also spectacular, IMO.

Of course, those are the only main FF games I've played and completed. Really, it all depends on just what Final Fantasy game something's being compared to.

If something or someone was compared to being from FFXII, that'd be a great thing, as FFXII had a great look for its characters, environments, and pretty much everything.

tehturian wrote...

This what the Dragon age 2 looks like when the camera purposely isn't being pointed downwards.


I recall another poster -- may have been hoorayforicecream -- who posted about this exact problem with how Bioware handled DAII's environmental designs, or something along those lines.

Bear in mind I can barely recall the actual post in question.

But the gist of it was that Kirkwall -- if you looked up at the Chantry, Gallows, or even the Viscount's Keep area -- was given a lot of work, but was rarely seen due to how you had to... well... look really high up.

On the flipside -- this is me making an addendum to that point, but maybe it was brought up there as well -- I'd say the streets were not given nearly enough detail.

From the lack of people to the lack of detailed people to the general feeling of emptiness Kirkwall's Hightown and Lowtown streets had to the necessity to look up and run like Ed from Ed, Edd, and Eddy just to see some of the work put in to the small exploration of Hightown/Lowtown/Darktown, it hurt the game for me in terms of "Do you feel connected?".

Korusus wrote...

You're right, I meant Flemeth.  Her new look completely destroys her original characterization.


Gonna have to disagree.

thats1evildude wrote...

Take this space for example. Over the course of the game, I will have to fight at least three street gangs, one group of qunari and one group of templars/mages backed by shades in this single avenue. I need room to fight those enemies. I don't care that, as a result, the street looks devoid of people.


To be fair all of those fights happen at night, whereas that image happens to be of Lowtown during the day.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 16 septembre 2012 - 05:32 .


#266
TEWR

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here's a screen cap from the 360
Image IPB


I absolutely hated how the Blightlands looked in DAII. They just... didn't feel tainted. Barren yes, but black, sick, and all around a nightmare to traverse or even gaze upon?

Not so much.

Not that DAO's idea of Blightlands was any better. In DAO, the version that existed there was... slimy rocks and fleshy sacks of flesh, which per the lore look just like the corruption Demons create.

Still, didn't feel or look tainted. Disgusting yes, but not tainted.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I personally found all of Kirkwall to be HORRIBLE. So tiny.


Fix'd. Image IPB

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 16 septembre 2012 - 05:44 .


#267
Plaintiff

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
*snip*

I think you're wasting your time, man. The Final Fantasy games have a fantastic aesthetic, and the artwork is just amazing. But the people complaining about DA2 don't want what Final Fantasy offers in terms of environments. They don't want crystalline forests or temples carved from ice or areas with eternal thunderstorms, or gleaming metropolises (metropolii?) with flying machines. It diverts too far from their western-oriented, Tolkien-inspired sensibilities.

#268
TEWR

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Yea, I probably am. Shame that, as I don't see anything wrong with some of the more fantastical elements.

Would I welcome the fantastical environments in DA? Not really, though that's due more to an old Gaider quote saying DA isn't going to have/doesn't have those things then it is personal taste -- though I'd say that I don't think it fit in DA anyway, per what we know of Thedas.

Were "Thedas" to extend outwards and it was introduced, that'd be different.

Anyway, this is off-topic methinks. I doubt it has much to do with DAII's art style, though I could be wrong.

Plaintiff wrote...

t diverts too far from their western-oriented, Tolkien-inspired sensibilities.


And as an aside, this made me think of Wade for some reason. I miss Wade.

#269
upsettingshorts

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Korusus wrote...

You're right, I meant Flemeth.  Her new look completely destroys her original characterization.


Gonna have to disagree.


Yeah um, she's a shapeshifter.

To the Warden, she presented herself as a crazy old hermit woman who knew more than she let on.

To Hawke, she presented herself as a damn dragon and a powerful wizard proposing a bargain.

I'm guessing if/when she appears again, it won't be in either of those forms.  Except maybe dragon.

It doesn't "completely destroy her original characterization" to make you, the audience, ask yourselves why the different approaches.  Which you ought to be, considering she can and does change her shape at will.  In the timeline of the series, she goes right back to playing the old hermit woman after assisting the Hawke clan.  She's up to things.   It adds to her character.

That's kind of off-topic though.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 septembre 2012 - 07:30 .


#270
StElmo

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character design = aesthetic too. I think its all pretty great. Im glad the elves look more different. It suits them.

#271
Wulfram

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

Kirkwall being empty is not part of the art style.


Well, Kirkwall being empty of people isn't.  It being almost devoid of every other sign of human habitation is part of one of the few consistent traits DA2's supposed art style possesses.

(A trait they apparently dumped for MotA, which is why the MotA screenshot looks good)

Modifié par Wulfram, 16 septembre 2012 - 09:55 .


#272
thats1evildude

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

To be fair all of those fights happen at night, whereas that image happens to be of Lowtown during the day.


My point stands:

1) The streets have to be big and wide to facilitate combat at night, so naturally they're going to seem empty if they're not absolutely packed with people.
2) We don't need NPCs clogging the streets and blocking traffic. They're just background details.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 16 septembre 2012 - 09:34 .


#273
Cimeas

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StElmo wrote...

Cimeas wrote...

I recently replayed Dragon Age 2, and I realise how fantastic it actually looks.  It is a beautiful game.  First time through I thought "Oh boring greys and browns" but the style, the dust, the textures etc.. are fantastic and beautiful.  

Image IPB

[IMG]http://www.weebly.com/uploads/3/0/3/8/3038341/custom_themes/294603599317007233/files/Screenshot20120711195010793.jpg?1347748939950/IMG]

[img]http://www.weebly.com/uploads/3/0/3/8/3038341/custom_themes/294603599317007233/files/Screenshot20120711231332660.jpg?1347748964957 [/img]

[img]http://www.weebly.com/uploads/3/0/3/8/3038341/custom_themes/294603599317007233/files/Screenshot20120712152814343.jpg?1347748991772[/img]

[img]http://www.weebly.com/uploads/3/0/3/8/3038341/custom_themes/294603599317007233/files/Screenshot20120712182253541.jpg?1347749010909[/img]


Absolutely, if you have AA and AF up it looks like a painting.



Exactly.  The reason why I used an MotA screenshot was to show that DA2's art style *doesn't* have to be all greys and browns.  The contrast between the two screenshots actually ends up looking rather nice imho, and I think that if Legacy and MotA were included in the base game (and the repeated warehouses/mansions were cut), many of the comments on the environment wouldn't have happened.

The art team on DA is fantastic, and while they *definitely* have to work to make the Darkspawn look more scary, and the Elves look less mutated, their environmental design is brilliant.  Ground textures, which in most games (including Skyrim) look disgusting, are detailed and interesting.  The skies expertly convey location, from the beautiful blue sky of the hunting party, to the overcast grey one over Sundermount, to the orange and purple sunset over Lowtown.   The backgrounds are also great, and the environments stretch into the distance and you wonder 'what's beyond there'.

I can't wait to see what the team will do with Orlais, Tevinter and any of the other places we might visit in DA3.  I have absolute confidence that they will deliver, much more confidence than i have with the quest design or gameplay teams.

#274
Wulfram

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Cimeas wrote...
 
Image IPB


Image IPB

#275
eroeru

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Umm. oblivion sucks.