356 réponses à ce sujet

[Dominus]

FF has some of the silliest, designs ever made. Saying that an art design is similar to FF is derogatory, not praise.

Fair Enough. It was the only outfit besides Maleficent that reminded me of flemeth.

Back on the original topic, I think many of the above posters speak for me already: The graphical engine, art style, and overall feel of DA3 are going to need serious work to compete as a Role-Playing game.

Modifié par DominusVita, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:16 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Flemeth is a Shapeshifter. (hence why she's called 'Flemeth the Shapeshifter') She picks her form for intended effect. In DAO it suited her purposes to appear a withered crazy old hag in a hut. Someone barely worth notice. In DA2 she picked a grander form which suited her role there..and her role in the story Varric was telling. No need for subtlety.

Back on the original topic, while I don't think DA2 was the most beautiful game I've ever played (I'd probably give that to Valkyria Chronicles) I don't think its style is given nearly as much credit as it deserved. There is a stylistic continuity in its environments and interfaces I find nicely done. It fit Kirkwall, but not Orlais. So it would need a different direction there to do it justice.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:17 .

[Thorwind]

Shevy_001 wrote...

It's too cartoonish and boring. I'm a fan of realistic style like Origins or Skyrim looks. The armors in Origins looked like they could be crafted with medievil blacksmithing skills.  Some of the armors in DA II look like they were cut with a modern H²0 cutter. That breaks parts of the immersion for me.

the armors in Origins were bland, boring and out of proportion, not to mention usless in RL the way they look, for example, 

the plate armor:
-the boots and the star thinggy at the knees? who would fight with something like that strapped to his knees, it limits your movements in any field of combat;
-the elbow protection, it was like a big football placed on your elbow, try swinging a blade with that thing on you
-the pauldrones? come on, you could barely move your head between the two, I won't mention about the limitation on your mobility when swinging a claymore for example;
-and the metal kilt? come on, there were examples in history but they were mostly made out of chainmail not chunks of metal
-the proportions were all messed up, the arms appeared way longer and skinnier than they should be, the torso was longer than normal, no human looks like that, plate armor or no (having studied proportions for half of my life things like these leave a sour taste)

the leather armor:
-a bunch of leather thrown on you in all directions tied together by a lot of pointless leather straps, mobility? don't think so
-different armor parts where there was no need fo them

chain mail and heavy chainmail:
-only reedeming quality to all the armors, at least those were partly right

weapons:
-chunks of long pointy metal things, wouldn't use those even if you payed me, nothing with style or functionality in them
-Orlesian sword model, the only one that didn't make me cringe...although I very much doubt it would have lasted 3 bashes on a strong shield

the rest of the art:
-sure there were parts which looked ok, not above..but the rest? the Deep roads - bland generic tunnels, Brecilian Forest - trees looking like an old used broom, Denerim - only the market place looked at least decent, but that's it, it only had a market place coverd by a tent in the middle

I love Origins, but I love it for the story, characters, evolution, RPG elements not for the quality of the aesthetics.
DA2 didn't do it perfectly, not compared to the Witcher and even your beloved Skyrim (which btw only looks good but that's about it, no interesting story or whatever) but it did it better compared to Origins. Origin apears brutish in gameplay and art.

DA2 was years ahead of Origins in aesthetics and gameplay, sadly it lacks spice when it comes to the story and the way it was treated, such a shame it was rushed, it had a lot of potential.

Anyway, only my humble and PERSONAL opinion, feel free to disagree.

Modifié par Thorwind, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:22 .

[El Mito]

DA 2 art style one of the best?




OP must be a comedian.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Some Geth wrote...

eroeru wrote...

Didn't you find Flemeth ridiculous in her apparent "milf" look?

Not so much a "milf" look, more like a "badass" look.

As for what I think of it? I don't really care that much. It didn't add much to the character, but at the same time it didn't take anything away from the character.

Badass look? Is there such a thing?

Badassery is a product of personality, not outfits.
And while fictional badases are usually eccentric and intimidating, that doesn't make  an intimidating look "badass"

I though Flemeth looked redicolous.

[Clover Rider]

Yeah her being a Shapeshifter is part of why I didn't care much about the design change. She can look like anything.

@Soronnar Yes there is such a thing as a badass look.

Modifié par Some Geth, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:23 .

[Dominus]

Thanks for the clarification on flemeth. Dragon Age isn't a series I know as well as others, to be honest. Regarding the stylistic continuity, I'll agree that the interfaces were sharp and made it easy to recognize which ability "shape"would have which effect - Instant, A Buff form, etc.

Badassery is a product of personality, not outfits.  

Presentation plays a significant part in Badassery. That's rather hard to argue against.

Modifié par DominusVita, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:21 .

[bEVEsthda]

Plaintiff wrote...

You're insulted?

Yes. That's what it feels like. The OP asked a question.
 

You just made massively sweeping assumptions and generalizations about the art style...

Yes. You could say that I did that. 

...and the people that may like it.

Not really. Read my exact words carefully.
Of course, it's easy to make such associations as you now are, but how do you suggest I would express myself to avoid that? And still get my own message and feelings across?

"They're children! Or probably Asian, because everyone knows Asians only like crap! But most likely children!"

And those are of course not my words, despite the quotes. I don't really care about why some people might like it. And I don't care about that some do. I'm not going to silence myself and inhilate my opinions, just to tip-toe around the possibility of hurt feelings.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:28 .

[Fallstar]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Flemeth is a Shapeshifter. (hence why she's called 'Flemeth the Shapeshifter') She picks her form for intended effect. In DAO it suited her purposes to appear a withered crazy old hag in a hut. Someone barely worth notice. In DA2 she picked a grander form which suited her role there..and her role in the story Varric was telling. No need for subtlety.

Back on the original topic, while I don't think DA2 was the most beautiful game I've ever played (I'd probably give that to Valkyria Chronicles) I don't think its style is given nearly as much credit as it deserved. There is a stylistic continuity in its environments and interfaces I find nicely done. It fit Kirkwall, but not Orlais. So it would need a different direction there to do it justice.

She's a shapeshifter yes. Why does she go the effort of raising a daughter in order to rejuvenate herself however, which requires over a decade of effort, when she can apparently stick a piece of herself in a magic amulet and get someone to do an elven ritual for her, and be done in a day or two.

[eroeru]

I love how Hawke's sibling decapitates himself in the horror of this scene's aesthetic. Only to find out that it cannot be done, as his head is out of rubber.


@Some Geth - Yeah, I can get behind that. I loved the new Qunari designs overall.


--------------------------------------
But the overhaul in general, and the ideas behind it were, in fact, abysmal and degrading to the franchise.

I would love to do some selective evidence thing myself now. (selective evidence isn't a fallacy you know, it just needs to be acknowledged as such, iff there are conterexamples brought, and even that has not been the case in this thread at least)

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing




People from DA2 seemed like cut out of thin paper, or plastic.

Nature looked as if out of plastic. Well, that doesn't bother many, because for many there probably isn't a difference. They should be ashamed of their understanding though, sooner or later.

Modifié par eroeru, 14 septembre 2012 - 02:59 .

[Clover Rider]

Yeah I don't get why they made some of the characters from the last game look so horrible. I mean they have fangirls! Bioware should know better.

Modifié par Some Geth, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:29 .

[Cutlass Jack]

DuskWarden wrote...

She's a shapeshifter yes. Why does she go the effort of raising a daughter in order to rejuvenate herself however, which requires over a decade of effort, when she can apparently stick a piece of herself in a magic amulet and get someone to do an elven ritual for her, and be done in a day or two.

Flemeth didn't get to the ripe old age she has without having a few backup plans. The amulet was a backup plan.

But I'm still convinced her real goal was not to take over Morrigan but to take over the OGB. A body that wouldn't require replacing.

[Plaintiff]

bEVEsthda wrote...
Of course, it's easy to make such associations as you now are, but how do you suggest I would express myself to avoid that? And still get my own message and feelings across?

I can't really help you there, I don't think your message is very good in the first place. DA2 doesn't really look anything like an anime for starters, and even if it did, that would not prevent me from taking the game seriously, because I do not, and never have factored artstyle into my assessment of a game's maturity.

I understand that for some people, artstyle is super-duper important, but it just isn't for me, except in one very particular respect.

DA2 was the first western RPG featuring character creation where I could create a character I could actually enjoy looking at, and I think much of that has to do with the stylised feel. Ironically, despite their supposed realism and graphical superiority, none of my characters in DA:O or Skyrim look remotely human. Even next to other denizens of their respective worlds, they look deformed. With DA2, I never have trouble crafting exactly the Hawke I want.

[eroeru]

Though it does need to be noted that Laidlaw hiself acknowledged the anime influence in the aesthetics' direction.

@Plaintiff - a well-written response.

Modifié par eroeru, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:39 .

[Clover Rider]

When did he?

Modifié par Some Geth, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:37 .

[eroeru]

Back when ][ was released, if I remember correctly.

Though you can look past my comment, I don't have a link as of now.

[Arch1eviathan]

El Mito wrote...

DA 2 art style one of the best?


snip

OP must be a comedian.

Your condscending remarks aren't necessary. 

[Darth Death]

StElmo wrote...
Overall, I think it is absolutely stunning, don't you dare go back to DA:O style BioWare - it's so generic and would probably suit something more like a Boulder's gate sequel or something - I know many DA:O fans love Boulders gate.

Well DA was suppose to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, so no surprise there, but don't worry. I don't think BioWare will go back to Origin's art style unfortunately, just a feeling. I don't understand what you mean by Origin's art style being "generic". Character model's faces definitely looked more realistic in Origins than in DA2, which is a plus for me among many other things. 

[Welsh Inferno]

The entirety of DA2's world felt like it was made of play-doh & bits of plastic to me.

I hate the changes to faces the most though. King Alistair especially..ugh. I cannot make a Hawke I like whatsoever either. Everyone is a pudgy un-detailed mess.

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 14 septembre 2012 - 12:50 .

[hexaligned]

It looked pretty horrible honestly, bare bones and washed out.  Not that I'm a huge graphics prude, I'm playing through MM7 atm.  I think it's more the herky jerky hornball monkey inspired animations that made it unplayable for me.

I liked the artstyle for the item and armor models better than DAO however.  

Modifié par relhart, 14 septembre 2012 - 01:00 .

[SpunkyMonkey]

I don't think it's just the art style either, I think that the overall aesthetics suffer because of the conscious decision to move away from a gritty, ole-worldy style base to the flashy, manga-esq one they used.

DA:2 felt and looked like a caricature of fantasy RPG's, and the art style shoulders some of that blame - even on the rare occasions where it does look good.

The entire reduction in quality from DA:O to DA:2 reminds me very much of when films get their own TV series.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 14 septembre 2012 - 01:23 .

[hoorayforicecream]

In this thread, many people who don't understand the difference between graphics and aesthetics.

[Wulfram]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

In this thread, many people who don't understand the difference between graphics and aesthetics.

Well, it's easier to say that this looks ugly than it is to attempt to read the developers minds as to whether the ugliness is the result of a deliberate stylistic choice or a graphical limitation.

[bEVEsthda]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

In this thread, many people who don't understand the difference between graphics and aesthetics.

I can't say I've seen any clear evidence of that?

[Das Tentakel]

Wulfram wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

In this thread, many people who don't understand the difference between graphics and aesthetics.

Well, it's easier to say that this looks ugly than it is to attempt to read the developers minds as to whether the ugliness is the result of a deliberate stylistic choice or a graphical limitation.

Moreover, the two are not strictly speaking distinct, certainly not from the player's POV. Graphic fidelity does impact how an aesthetic style is perceived. A realistic aesthetic style profits from high graphic fidelity; you can notice that in The Witcher I and II, both of which have a realistic aethetic, but the second game looks better because of its higher graphic fidelity. DA is a bit of a hybrid, in the sense that it combines a partly realistic (character models, some clothing, arms and armour) and partly stylized aesthetic style (architecture, some arms and armour). It may be that because of this, it is actually more vulnerable to getting things 'wrong' in the eyes of many players and viewers.
The realistic stuff 'bites' the stylized stuff and vice versa.  

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 14 septembre 2012 - 01:46 .