85 réponses à ce sujet

[Ulrik the Slayer]

It doesn't hold water because Frost Weapons doesn't follow said rules. If it did, it would have a slim chance to slow/freeze the enemy to make up for its lack of damage in comparison to Fire Weapons - like the rest of the Frost spells. It is just a gimped version of Fire Weapons right now and there is no reason to use it whatsoever over Fire Weapons.

What's so hard to grasp about that?

Modifié par Ulrik the Slayer, 26 décembre 2009 - 09:48 .

[RobotXYZ]

Is it the same upkeep in mana?

[Neotribe]

Do all the frost based spells do less direct damage than the other schools? It makes sense on cone of cold and blizzard, as they have a chance to freeze, and shattering is probably the most powerful combat mechanic in DAO. Maybe frost weapons is nerfed to help fire stack up against frost in terms of return on point investment?



How does the fire cone stack up against the shock cone?

[Gecon]

The damage formula and limits of both spells is exactly the same.



So if they do different damage, its either because your mages have different Spellpower ratings and / or the mobs in question have resistances to ice.

[xCobalt]

It's more likely that the spell itself is the problem rather than the caster/mobs. There is a large discrepancy between the two spells.

[thegreateski]

Because fire is hot.

[nefem]

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

Unless you were particularly vulnerable to low temperatures, a very hot object will always hurt and damage biological tissue (and armor metal) more than a very cold object.

Next.

[Neotribe]

My kingdom for a combat log.

[Arinosmirc]

Perhaps the mere fact that there's very few things that resist cold? There's more then a few fire based enemies in the game, but I can't think of any cold based enemies (obviously not taking into account resistance items/spells), therefore, the Frost Weapon spell will always have a bonus, whereas the Flame Weapons spell has critters with fire resistance to cope with.



Heck, I think frost weapons deal extra damage to fire based critters, doesn't it? So fire might have a higher overall damage, but there are some mobs that resist it. Cold does less overall, but is more effectived against the fire resistant mobs.

[Neotribe]

nefem wrote...

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

Unless you were particularly vulnerable to low temperatures, a very hot object will always hurt and damage biological tissue (and armor metal) more than a very cold object.

Next.

Non-scientists trying to drop science is always funny.

I'd rather stick my hand into a pot of boiling water than a vat of  liquid nitrogen.

It is, obviously, a question of  hot or cold how, and how much of either.

Modifié par Neotribe, 26 décembre 2009 - 11:34 .

[thegreateski]

Flaming weapons should increase your damage because fire is hot.



Frost should make your weapon do less damage because it essentially turns your sword or axe into a club.

[Neotribe]

Cold things can't be sharp?



Wow.....

[Arinosmirc]

thegreateski wrote...

Flaming weapons should increase your damage because fire is hot.

Frost should make your weapon do less damage because it essentially turns your sword or axe into a club.

Trying to apply logic to a magic effect doesn't work too well

The answer is likely going to be a) unapplied effect of Frost weapons, or balance, in that Frost has few things that can resist it, and a few things it does more damage to, whereas fire does more damage, but has nothing it deals extra damage to and things that resist it's damage.

Reality be damned.

[Neotribe]

Or because Cone of Cold is the best spell in the game, and they needed to make investment in fire more attractive.

[CJohnJones]

Neotribe wrote...

nefem wrote...

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

Unless you were particularly vulnerable to low temperatures, a very hot object will always hurt and damage biological tissue (and armor metal) more than a very cold object.

Next.

Non-scientists trying to drop science is always funny.

I'd rather stick my hand into a pot of boiling water than a vat of  liquid nitrogen.

It is, obviously, a question of  hot or cold how, and how much of either.

That seems unfair, since liquid nitrogen is a lot farther from 0 celcius than is boiling water. 


Anyway, Frost Weapons comes in a line of very, very desirable spells. You aren't taking anything just to get there. The fire spells are inferior (no freeze/shatter combos there, and many resistant creatures). So, to get fire weapons you are taking the first, rather limited fire spell and not going on to get something awesome afterwards. You get frost weapons on the way to cone of cold, which is probably the best non-heal spell in the whole game. Since the cold line is excessively awesome already, it makes some sense to make frost weapons a litte weaker. The frost line would be worth it if the first two slots did nothing at all.

[thegreateski]

Neotribe wrote...

Cold things can't be sharp?

Wow.....

It's not cold.
It's frozen.

It is not called "Cold weapons"

[Arinosmirc]

thegreateski wrote...

Neotribe wrote...

Cold things can't be sharp?

Wow.....

It's not cold.
It's frozen.

It is not called "Cold weapons"

It's implied that they're cold...since they're frozen.

Just throwing that out there

Like I said, don't look to reality and logic to explain why frost weapons do less damage. Because that's just silly to try to do that for a magic effect.

It's about balance, if I were a betting man, and I suspect it has more to do with resistances and weaknesses then the overall power of the Fire and Frost spell lines.

[thegreateski]

If Bioware cared about balance then "Crushing prison" would not be a spell.



(I'm talking about there being ice on the weapon, not the actual temperature.)

[Killian Kalthorne]

From my understanding is that Highever is far to the north and far more temperate than the rest of the country. Its like Highever is Florida, and the bulk of Ferelden, where the action is taking place, is Iowa.

[Neotribe]

If Bioware cared about balance then "Crushing prison" would not be a spell.

Earth, Frost and Psionics: the Threefold Path to Awesome.

And you can cut yourself on ice, by the way.

Modifié par Neotribe, 27 décembre 2009 - 12:33 .

[Arinosmirc]

thegreateski wrote...

If Bioware cared about balance then "Crushing prison" would not be a spell.

(I'm talking about there being ice on the weapon, not the actual temperature.)

Doesn't change my point. Trying to explain away the differences between two spells in a game using reality and logic doesn't work, because a) it's a game, and it's magic.

To sum it up. A wizard did it.

In my games, I use all three of the weapon enhancing spells depending on the situation.

For general use, Fire.
For fire enemies, or if fire enemies are common in the area, Frost.
Anything with annoyingly high armor ratings, telekenetic.

I noticed the difference in damage early on, but I also noticed the lack of resistances to cold damage, and that cold damage is greater on fire based mobs, and vice versa.

I was sitting on the fence that it might be a balance issue or a forgotten effect issue, but thinking about it makes it more likely to be a balancing reason. And while CP is indeed powerful, it's hardly the end all be all spell, although they really should patch the caster AI to cast force field on any ally that has been CP'd. That would greatly water down CP.

[Destructo-Bot]

Neotribe wrote...
I'd rather stick my hand into a pot of boiling water than a vat of  liquid nitrogen.
It is, obviously, a question of  hot or cold how, and how much of either.

SleeplessInSigil wrote...
That seems unfair, since liquid nitrogen is a lot farther from 0 celcius than is boiling water.

Sticking your hand into liquid nitrogen would be better because of the Leidenfrost effect wherein the vast differential in temperatures causes a constant layer of vapor between your hand the and liquid nitrogen for several seconds. Videos can be found online of people dunking their hands and even gargling liquid nitrogen.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 27 décembre 2009 - 03:03 .

[Creature 1]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Neotribe wrote...
I'd rather stick my hand into a pot of boiling water than a vat of  liquid nitrogen.
It is, obviously, a question of  hot or cold how, and how much of either.

SleeplessInSigil wrote...
That seems unfair, since liquid nitrogen is a lot farther from 0 celcius than is boiling water.

Sticking your hand into liquid nitrogen would be better because of the Leidenfrost effect wherein the vast differential in temperatures causes a constant layer of vapor between your hand the and liquid nitrogen for several seconds. Videos can be found online of people dunking their hands and even gargling liquid nitrogen.

I was gonna say, can I stick it in the liquid N2 real fast??  Keeping it there is another matter.  

[Joshd21]

Fire BURNS



Ice is COLD freezes but doesn't actually inflict much damage

[Arinosmirc]

Joshd21 wrote...

Fire BURNS

Ice is COLD freezes but doesn't actually inflict much damage

Nonsense. Fleshbags such as us have a lot of water in our bodies. Makes touching really damn cold things kinda bad, heck, just grab something freezing and you can already feel your skin freezing to it. Now imagine what magical cold is capable of?

It would be like licking metal in the winter. Anyone who has been foolish enough to do that knows how that feels. Not to mention the dangers of frostbite, which, given extreme temperatures, can have a very rapid onset.

But this is all beside the point, because we're talking about a magic effect in a game, which is however effect as the designers choose it to be. And I suspect it's working as intended.