85 réponses à ce sujet

[rockinfuxstar]

to go back to what the post was originally about - i agree that fire, ice and lightning imbued weapon boosting spells should have the same damage depending on the adversary, the runes in a weapon, and maybe the character themself.



as far as if fire and ice are the same, i think that a flaming sword would do more damage, since it burns, cuts, cauterizes and may even light the enemy on fire a bit.

a frozen sword would not have much additional damage, unless it causes the enemy to freeze/freeze and shatter upon contact.

since that doesnt happen with the characters I've used, I think it's just an imbalance in the game, like a few of the spells that are complete wastes of time.

[Arkaelis]

KariTR wrote...

MrIsidor wrote...

*Ferelden is COLD in the winter and the inhabitants should be used to cold. An example of this is given in "The Calling" where Duncan (not a Fereldan native) is freezing his ass off while King Maric seems quite unaffected by the cold.

Totally off-topic, but I wonder why in-game Alistair says Duncan is from Highever.

Having never read the books, I'd say that maybe that maybe Duncan settled there for a bit prior to the game.

Anyway, the fact that fire does burning damage while ice just freezes seems like a decent reason as to the damage differences.  Then again, all the cuts induced might just be caulterized by the heat.

[Arkaelis]

Bah double post.

Modifié par Arkaelis, 27 décembre 2009 - 05:08 .

[Ibian]

Creature 1 wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Neotribe wrote...
I'd rather stick my hand into a pot of boiling water than a vat of  liquid nitrogen.
It is, obviously, a question of  hot or cold how, and how much of either.

SleeplessInSigil wrote...
That seems unfair, since liquid nitrogen is a lot farther from 0 celcius than is boiling water.

Sticking your hand into liquid nitrogen would be better because of the Leidenfrost effect wherein the vast differential in temperatures causes a constant layer of vapor between your hand the and liquid nitrogen for several seconds. Videos can be found online of people dunking their hands and even gargling liquid nitrogen.

I was gonna say, can I stick it in the liquid N2 real fast??  Keeping it there is another matter.  

You can move your hand through an open flame unharmed. Just gotta do it, quote, "real fast".

As to SleeplessInSigils comment, try being outside when it's 20 degree freezing. Without gloves. Then compare it to touching something 20 degree warm.
You chose a bad neutral point, but it doesn't matter. Living things have a very narrow comfort zone when it comes to temperatures, anything much higher or much lower is going to do some serious damage. Just a matter of what kind of damage, but for ingame purposes there is no reason to consider fire more damaging than cold.

[slash197]

Guys, the physics of hot and cold don't matter when the two spells have the same damage formula.



Frost Weapons: Spellpower / 7.5



Flaming Weapons: Spellpower / 7.5

[Question2]

God trying to bring bad high school science into dragon age origins.

Half the posts in this thread are "hot > cold lol".

This is worse than /b/.

Modifié par Question2, 27 décembre 2009 - 10:35 .

[Darth Wraith]

I'm guessing it has to do with creatures having a higher cold resistance (on average) than fire resistance. Hence, Flame Weapon does more damage.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Joshd21 wrote...

Fire BURNS

Ice is COLD freezes but doesn't actually inflict much damage

Are you people idiots? FROST WEAPONS DO NOT FRIGGIN FREEZE ENEMIES! THERE IS NO SIDE-EFFECT TO MAKE UP FOR THE LACK OF DAMAGE.

Jeesh.<_<

[Creature 1]

try being outside when it's 20 degree freezing. Without gloves. Then compare it to touching something 20 degree warm.

You mean -20 C vs. +20 C?  The first is quite cold (about the temperature of a brine/ice mixture, which stupid teens sometimes use to give themselves frostbite for some reason incomprehensible to me), the second is about normal room temperature.  You have to look at a wider temperature range.  A lot of the damage from extreme temperatures has to do with heat capacity.  I can handle dry ice (-80 C) as long as I move quickly and my gloves are dry.  But if you spill 80 C water on yourself that will definitely hurt--even though the water is actually closer to body temperature. 

Living tissue is really damaged most by cold when it actually freezes because ice crystals form and shred cell membranes.  But you don't have to reach boiling temperatures to damage tissue, because proteins will denature at much lower temperatures. 

Plus we don't know how cold cold weapons are or how hot flaming weapons are.  It makes sense that flaming weapons are much hotter than cold weapons are cold because if we measure from absolute zero the human body temperature is 310 K, and iron does not melt until 1800 K.  Iron becomes increasingly brittle and fragile with lower temperatures, making the lower limit of temperature for cold weapons closer to body temperature than the lower limit for flaming weapons.  From Google it appears swords tend to become brittle around -30 C, so a practical temperature for run of the mill weapons may be around -20 C.  A cool flame, on the other hand (assuming "flaming weapons" is not figurative), is about 750 C. 

If anything flaming weapons should deal more damage in comparison to cold weapons. 

[Killian Kalthorne]

Do bad you can't have flame and frost on a weapon. Of course using icy hot might actually heal your enemies' joint pain.

[Tirigon]

According to the better tooltips mod the damage formula is - for both spells - 0.13 * Spellpower, minimal damage 1, max damage 10.

Assuming that this is true you either have VERY different Spellpowers on the guys who cast, or its simply bugged.

[Legion-001]

Tirigon wrote...

According to the better tooltips mod the damage formula is - for both spells - 0.13 * Spellpower, minimal damage 1, max damage 10.
Assuming that this is true you either have VERY different Spellpowers on the guys who cast, or its simply bugged.

With DA:O most likely the latter.

[Neotribe]

My reading of the OP is that the spell was being cast by the same character, who has both spell lines. Creature laid out the physics/chemistry better than anyone else, but as has been said it's all kind of beside the point. It could simply be an issue of balancing the spell lines.

Modifié par Neotribe, 27 décembre 2009 - 04:09 .

[SarEnyaDor]

Not knowing the actual answer, I would venture that when you place an ice cube on your sleeve, you sleeve does not freeze although your arm feels cold, however placing a lit match on your sleev will not only burn your arm, but possibly light your shirt on fire.

Just a guess.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Not knowing the actual answer, I would venture that when you place an ice cube on your sleeve, you sleeve does not freeze although your arm feels cold, however placing a lit match on your sleev will not only burn your arm, but possibly light your shirt on fire.

Just a guess.

Please put your sleeve into a container of liquid nitrogen.

[Klickklack]

With real live physics you won't get far here, taking into consideration that the devs probably didn't cared.
You wouldn't survive beeing frozen completly(coc) in real life either.

Modifié par Klickklack, 27 décembre 2009 - 05:25 .

[SarEnyaDor]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...
Please put your sleeve into a container of liquid nitrogen.

Well, the animation would be more consistant with dipping the SWORD in liquid nitrogen then hitting my arm in its sleeve with it, in which case the sleeve would probably stick to the sword, depending on the material... but the match part still holds. My sleeve would be on fire from the match the flaming sword which would cause damage over a greater area than the localized freezing.

OP's not talking about Cone of Cold here, or complete freezing of object, but about the damage done with a frozen weapon vs that with a flaming weapon.

I see your sarcasm and reject it with my logic. 

[Arinosmirc]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...
Please put your sleeve into a container of liquid nitrogen.

Well, the animation would be more consistant with dipping the SWORD in liquid nitrogen then hitting my arm in its sleeve with it, in which case the sleeve would probably stick to the sword, depending on the material... but the match part still holds. My sleeve would be on fire from the match the flaming sword which would cause damage over a greater area than the localized freezing.

OP's not talking about Cone of Cold here, or complete freezing of object, but about the damage done with a frozen weapon vs that with a flaming weapon.

I see your sarcasm and reject it with my logic. 

I reject your logic, and substitute the game's reality.

Making those 'points' does nothing for this discussion because flame weapons do not set enemies ablaze.

Now then, since someone was kind enough to post the equation for the damage, it's clear that the difference in damage is, in fact, a bug. Nothing more, nothing less.

And if you're going to use a variation of Adam Savage's nigh famous Mythbuster quote, at least get it kinda right

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Frost Weapons creates a magical force field around your weapons which holds the magical liquid nitrogen. When impacting an enemy, the force field opens up at the location of the impact allowing the magical liquid nitrogen to pour out on the victim for a split second, causing massive freezing damage.

I reject your real-life logic and substitute the game's logic! To think that the spell simply "makes your weapon cold" is just retarded. Seriously...<_<

Modifié par Ulrik the Slayer, 27 décembre 2009 - 06:26 .

[SarEnyaDor]

*hands out chill pills to Ulrik and Arinosmirc*



I'm sure Adam is really upset with me for paying homage and making an allusion, and I'm sure that Jamie is scowling, too. How dare I not make a direct quote with citations!!!! The humanity!



As for what's really "retarded" ........

[Arinosmirc]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

*hands out chill pills to Ulrik and Arinosmirc*

I'm sure Adam is really upset with me for paying homage and making an allusion, and I'm sure that Jamie is scowling, too. How dare I not make a direct quote with citations!!!! The humanity!

As for what's really "retarded" ........

Nuthin' t' do with citations  Just think it's silly to take a quote like that, then get the structure that made it memorable wrong

An' Adam probably has a thickened hide to things from the net, considering the idiotic fansites they have to put up with lol, an' yes I know you were jesting about Adam being upset about that

Modifié par Arinosmirc, 27 décembre 2009 - 09:47 .

[J.O.G]

In the long run, temperatures below 0°C cause more damage than temperatures above 80°C simply because you can suffer them longer, scalded skin may heal, but frozen tissue is irreversably damaged.

In a quick combat situation this argument is moot, though.

I'd rather pour liquid nitrogen over my hands than boiling water, the nitrogen will vaporise on my hand which is 160°C hotter. The boiling water which is only 70°C hotter than my hand will hurt a lot.

Heat brings pain, pain brings shock and fear. Cold numbs the nerves, thus less pain thus less effective weapons. So a proper cold-based weapon should actually reduce damage but apply a penalty to attack, defense and movement speed with every hit.

Modifié par J.O.G, 27 décembre 2009 - 10:03 .

[Tirigon]

J.O.G wrote...

In the long run, temperatures below 0°C cause more damage than temperatures above 80°C simply because you can suffer them longer, scalded skin may heal, but frozen tissue is irreversably damaged.

In a quick combat situation this argument is moot, though.

I'd rather pour liquid nitrogen over my hands than boiling water, the nitrogen will vaporise on my hand which is 160°C hotter. The boiling water which is only 70°C hotter than my hand will hurt a lot.

Heat brings pain, pain brings shock and fear. Cold numbs the nerves, thus less pain thus less effective weapons. So a proper cold-based weapon should actually reduce damage but apply a penalty to attack, defense and movement speed with every hit.

Less pain doesnt mean a weapon is less effective, unless you are talking about torturing someone. The fact that you dont feel the sword that cuts off your arm doesnt mean your arm is less hurt than if you had great pain while loosing it.

[J.O.G]

Depends on how you define hitpoints. I always see hitpoints as a measure of shock resistance, not blood volume or some mystic kind of life force.

A single knife stab in a kidney or a slit troath will incapacitate you immediately due to shock and you bleed to death in half a minute or less, with little hope for rescue even with our modern medicine.

Circulatory shock is your enemy, stress is your friend. You may faint because of a tiny needle stick, or you may sever your fingers, pick them out of the buzz saw and go to the next clinic. Pain clears the mind and counteracts the stress, once in the clinic the adrenaline is gone and our woodcutter passes out.

The best parallel to a RPG fight is a real life knife fight. It's not about stabbing, but about slashing, cuting the opponent as often as possible until he passes out by shock. Of course IRL the "winner" is gravely injured as well and will pass out too. Whether they survive or not depends on the depth of the cuts and the availability of medical care.

Modifié par J.O.G, 28 décembre 2009 - 11:23 .

[J.O.G]

dp'd

Modifié par J.O.G, 28 décembre 2009 - 11:23 .