1774 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

There are tastes and then there is objective quality to consider. Just because a game has more dialogue for instance because they didn't have to use voice acting doesn't mean that dialogue is as good as dialogue which is voice acted because voice acting expresses a character's emotions and personallity.

It's essentially a quantity doesn't equal quality argument. Leland would NOT be as good of a character if he had no voice acting and just more lines.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:15 .

[Joy Divison]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...
 You want Obsidian to torpedo a project that is funded by the very fans who will buy the game?  What's the point of formally objecting or expressing a worry?

No.

As for what's the point. Because I feel to. Do I need more reason?

Of course not.  I'm one to stir the **** myself, but as it is the customers forking over their own money for a type of game they'd like to see, I don't see the value in saying the artistic direction of what they want is lacking in some fundamental way.

[Costin_Razvan]

The direction of the game was decided by Obsidian before it was put on Kickstarter, not after.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Joy Divison wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...
 You want Obsidian to torpedo a project that is funded by the very fans who will buy the game?  What's the point of formally objecting or expressing a worry?

No.

As for what's the point. Because I feel to. Do I need more reason?

Of course not.  I'm one to stir the **** myself, but as it is the customers forking over their own money for a type of game they'd like to see, I don't see the value in saying the artistic direction of what they want is lacking in some fundamental way.

I personally never claimed it was lacking in a fundamental way or that is was intrinsically inferior, that's Costins' argument. I still said I was interested by the project (and might even donate 20 bucks in the coming days), but I would have hoped it was something different.

I was primarily arguing that Vampires was not as reactive as AP, which I realize it's a tad off-topic, as a silent game with no cinematics could still be as reactive if not mroe so. I just disagree on using Vampires as an example.

My personal main concern is a PC being too passive and / or reactive, with little to no-proactivity, intelligent things to say and do, and emotional expression, as I have experienced with all silent PCs I played with varying degrees (I stress however that I did not play Torment, which may have a better silent PC).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:16 .

[FutharkTomahawk]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The direction of the game was decided by Obsidian before it was put on Kickstarter, not after.

And this is precisely why their Kickstarter funding mechanism is working so well: they're giving a neglected market segment what it wants.

[Xeyska]

10K left to go.

Modifié par Xeyska, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:18 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Obsidian has it's own rabid fans. There have been plenty of people who gave money thinking that it's Obsidian and that they WILL without a doubt make a good story.

Whatever I might have said, I have never questioned the fact that Eternity will have a good story. It very likely will.

[Guns]

So basically Dragon Age: Origins... 
So basically more evidence on why Dragon Age 2 was a huge mistake...
So basically more evidence on why Bioware is a terrible company now...

[Costin_Razvan]

I think it's an insult to say Obsidian is making a DA:O clone. Honestly Avellone said he despises the fantasy cliches and wants to rip them shreds in a game and see what comes out of it. This is what he is doing here.

[Nameless one7]

Guns wrote...

So basically Dragon Age: Origins... 
So basically more evidence on why Dragon Age 2 was a huge mistake...
So basically more evidence on why Bioware is a terrible company now...

What's the point of posting this in this thread?

[twincast]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

My argument is that a story is good when it has voice acting, cinematics and graphics because they work to serve it, they add an immersive experience to the game's story.

You've made your point plenty clear. And there's nothing wrong with it in itself. What is blatantly ****y is trying to convince everyone that your (extreme) priorities are the only ones any- and everyone should have.

Of course cinematics and voice acting can enhance the experience, but for many of us not so much that it is worth the natural trade-off of less quality content in CRPGs. Similarly, fancy graphics are great, but standard graphics today are nice enough that nothing more is particularly needed. And older and deliberately retro-style games are still enjoyable today for many on their own merits. I still love many SNES games and play them from time to time.

We get plenty of cinematic AAA games to your liking and most of us including me enjoy most of them as well and another AP would definitely also be nice, but don't go around trying to rain on our parade of finally getting more diversity back through Kickstarter.

This is the kind of game Obsidian wants to make now and their backers want them to make, moaning about it (here or anywhere else) won't change it. Nor will derailing the thread into an Alpha Protocol v. Bloodlines discussion.

You are nothing but trolling here.

[Dragoonlordz]

Nameless one7 wrote...

Guns wrote...

So basically Dragon Age: Origins... 
So basically more evidence on why Dragon Age 2 was a huge mistake...
So basically more evidence on why Bioware is a terrible company now...

What's the point of posting this in this thread?

I don't think this is the place for such comments either. Fact is a lot of Bioware developers like David Gaider, Mike Laidlaw and Jessica etc are all also investing their own personal money into backing this project. Bioware makes games some like and Obsidian makes games some like, some like both. But Bioware developers are good people and when a studio is filled with good people -it is not a terrible studio (imho) even if you did not enjoy some of their games of late.

EDIT: Only $5,000 till hits target!

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:32 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Wow 6000 dollars to go.

That is quite an impressive feat really.
I feel happy i put 25 bucks down.

[Joy Divison]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...
 You want Obsidian to torpedo a project that is funded by the very fans who will buy the game?  What's the point of formally objecting or expressing a worry?

No.

As for what's the point. Because I feel to. Do I need more reason?

Of course not.  I'm one to stir the **** myself, but as it is the customers forking over their own money for a type of game they'd like to see, I don't see the value in saying the artistic direction of what they want is lacking in some fundamental way.

I personally never claimed it was lacking in a fundamental way or that is was intrinsically inferior, that's Costins' argument. I still said I was interested by the project (and might even donate 20 bucks in the coming days), but I would have hoped it was something different.

I was primarily arguing that Vampires was not as reactive as AP, which I realize it's a tad off-topic, as a silent game with no cinematics could still be as reactive if not mroe so. I just disagree on using Vampires as an example.

My personal main concern is a PC being too passive and / or reactive, with little to no-proactivity, intelligent things to say and do, and emotional expression, as I have experienced with all silent PCs I played (I stress hwoever that I did not play Torment, which may have a better silent PC).

You're right that it is Costin's argument.

As for the PC being too passive, well I wholeheartedly agree.  While I see Costin's point that cinematics, cut scenes, and quality aestetics allow for a much deeper immersion potential, I am not sure I see a connection, let alone correlation, to a pro-active and intelliegent PC to these things.  My instict is that this is much more dependant on the artistic freedom of the designers (which this project seems to have), the quality of said designers (ditto), not having to target the alleged CoD demographic (check), and not having to cater the game to the limiting potential of some of these high budget additions (see DA2).

Maybe I am idealistic, but I have confidence in this project which is being funded by folks who think Baldur's Gate 2 was a better game than DA2.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:37 .

[Guns]

My retribution is eternal, as is my pain. This is justice no more. This hatred in me is like an ancient gnarled root. It has consumed my soul.

Dragon Age 2 will never be forgotten
Dragon Age 2 will never be forgiven

aaaaaahsjfnsdklmfsdlmfds,f

[twincast]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

There are tastes and then there is objective quality to consider. Just because a game has more dialogue for instance because they didn't have to use voice acting doesn't mean that dialogue is as good as dialogue which is voice acted because voice acting expresses a character's emotions and personallity.

It's essentially a quantity doesn't equal quality argument. Leland would NOT be as good of a character if he had no voice acting and just more lines.

That's deliberately simplistic of you. Quality writing is quality writing.

[Dragoonlordz]

Feargus Urquhart ‏@Feargus

We are almost there!!! @Obsidian #Project Eternity. Update soon on the stretch goals!

9:37 PM - 15 Sep 12 · Details

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:38 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Joy Divison wrote...
As for the PC being too passive, well I wholeheartedly agree.  While I see Costin's point that cinematics, cut scenes, are quality aestetics allow for a much deeper immersion potential, I am not sure I see a connection, let alone correlation, to a pro-active and intelliegent PC to these things.  My instict is that this is much more dependant on the artistic freedom of the designers (which this project seems to have), the quality of said designers (ditto), not having to target the alleged CoD demographic (check), and not having to cater the game to the limiting potential of some of these high budget additions (see DA2).

There may not be a necessary corrolation, but I'm assuming it would be more difficult to make a pro-active PC that is silent, based on my experience. Unless dialogue options are paragraphs long, fully expressing the PC's opinion / emotions and perspective, and having back and forth discussions with companions and allowing the PC to decide what to do on his / her own for time to time without anyone telling him / her to.

The silent PCs I played speak only in single sentences, with the NPCs / companions doing most of the talking and the PC just standing there and listening. 90% of the time, they do things because someone told them to (exceptions like convincing the werewolves and becoming Prince-Consort / Chancellor, as well as the Korriban situation in KOTOR do exist but they are relatively rare). 

So, to bring this back to topic. If they are going for a silent PC, I would want paragraph long options, and long conversations, in addition to the PC not being a lapdog to every NPC they meet.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:43 .

[Nameless one7]

Less than 2k to go!

[Nameless one7]

Project Eternity has met its goal!

[Cribbian]

yay

[Giggles_Manically]

Wow they did it.

That is very impressive.
Now lets see if Obsidian is not just hiding behind publishers for their products.
2014 shall be an interesting year.

I wish them luck.

[Barbarossa2010]

Well, that didn't take long. Well done Obsidian. Now, getting busy.

[Yrkoon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

While I would have still enjoyed it a lot, watching two blocks from an isometric view and reading *and they started drinking vodka together*, would have not nearly have had the same effect on me as a cutscene showing them drinking vodka with voices emoting nuances.

Conversely,  a scene where  "Edgar the mage stared  intently at the Amulet in his hands, as the thought  of his dead  son burrowed its way suddenly  to the forefront of his mind, breaking his concentration" - loses  just about everything when it's acted out in a cutscene with sound effects, but there's virtually no limit to its impact when it's presented in written form  by a good mood writer.

So the argument you're making is kinda pointless.  There are some situations that call for cinematics, and many many others  where such cutscenes   will actually be a detriment.

And wow, it's early saturday afternoon and they've already gotten to 1.1 million.  Lets see if they can make it to 2 million by next weekend!

Modifié par Yrkoon, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:55 .