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#426
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Skelter192 wrote...

Obviously that is what I meant. The doctors became apart of EA and now are under their control while Obsidian even with all the problems they have faced with Bethesda, Lucas Arts and cancelled projects have remained independent I think that means something at least to me. They let their games do the talking for them not PR.

EDIT: Well I guess stockholders could have screwed them over too so there is that.


That is not what you meant. The phrase "X took Y's money" means that X chose to take Y's money. Bioware did not have a choice here.

Edit: say what, namelessone? You sure?

Then Bioware shouldn't be there? 


I would say no, as Bioware remains a distinct franchise, even if they are owned by EA.

Modifié par EntropicAngel, 16 septembre 2012 - 12:13 .


#427
ObserverStatus

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Why does every nice thread have to turn into a argument about a takeover that took place 5 years ago? :(

#428
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http://www.gamespot....or-860m-6180818

This to me implies that the takeover was approved by shareholders, not Bioware themselves.

#429
Jozape

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bobobo878 wrote...

Why does every nice thread have to turn into a argument about a takeover that took place 5 years ago? :(


Yin and yang. Yesterday the thread went Lawful Good, but today it went Chaotic Evil. I predict tomorrow will be True Neutral.

#430
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EntropicAngel wrote...

http://www.gamespot....or-860m-6180818

This to me implies that the takeover was approved by shareholders, not Bioware themselves.


Yes.  Elevation Partners.  They were the "shareholders", they were the investment firm.  From your own article:

<<When the BioWare/Pandemic deal was announced, Elevation made much of the
fact the union represented a "combined investment" of more than $300
million, including future funding. Today, the company got a massive
return on said investment, with EA paying $620 million in cash to
the stockholders of VG Holding Corp. In addition, the publisher will
issue an additional $155 million in equity to unidentified VG Holding
employees
, as well as assume $50 million in outstanding VG stock
options, and will lend VG $35 million to fund the transition.
>>

EDIT: Sorry to help derail the thread.  This day should be a celebration of Obsidian and Project: Eternity and classic cRPGs.

Modifié par Korusus, 16 septembre 2012 - 12:23 .


#431
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Korusus wrote...

Yes.  Elevation Partners.  They were the "shareholders", they were the investment firm.  From your own article:

<<When the BioWare/Pandemic deal was announced, Elevation made much of the
fact the union represented a "combined investment" of more than $300
million, including future funding. Today, the company got a massive
return on said investment, with EA paying $620 million in cash to
the stockholders of VG Holding Corp. In addition, the publisher will
issue an additional $155 million in equity to unidentified VG Holding
employees
, as well as assume $50 million in outstanding VG stock
options, and will lend VG $35 million to fund the transition.
>>

EDIT: Sorry to help derail the thread, I blame the trolls that keep bringing up irrelevant topics.  This day should be a celebration of Obsidian and Project: Eternity and classic cRPGs.


Yes. If you'll read my post, that's exactly what I emphasized.

Are you really calling this trolling? Really? You're trying too hard.

#432
Chromie

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Korusus wrote...
EDIT: Sorry to help derail the thread.  This day should be a celebration of Obsidian and Project: Eternity and classic cRPGs.


Is that Josh Sawyer singing. :lol:

https://pbs.twimg.co...mPBW.jpg:large 

Modifié par Skelter192, 16 septembre 2012 - 12:27 .


#433
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EntropicAngel wrote...

Korusus wrote...

Yes.  Elevation Partners.  They were the "shareholders", they were the investment firm.  From your own article:

<<When the BioWare/Pandemic deal was announced, Elevation made much of the
fact the union represented a "combined investment" of more than $300
million, including future funding. Today, the company got a massive
return on said investment, with EA paying $620 million in cash to
the stockholders of VG Holding Corp. In addition, the publisher will
issue an additional $155 million in equity to unidentified VG Holding
employees
, as well as assume $50 million in outstanding VG stock
options, and will lend VG $35 million to fund the transition.
>>

EDIT: Sorry to help derail the thread, I blame the trolls that keep bringing up irrelevant topics.  This day should be a celebration of Obsidian and Project: Eternity and classic cRPGs.


Yes. If you'll read my post, that's exactly what I emphasized.

Are you really calling this trolling? Really? You're trying too hard.


Sorry to bring up the troll word, I removed it because I don't want to bring the level of conversation down any further.  Elevation Partners was an investment firm...it works like this...BioWare approaches Elevation Partners for the funds to create a holding-group company that both injects capital and signals their willingness to be bought out.  EP fronts the money and creates the holding group of which they own the majority of the shares.  EA buys out the holding group, not EP.  EP gets their payday, the unnamed "VG Holding employees" (read: BioWare's former owners) get their payday, everyone is happy.

Skelter192 wrote...

Korusus wrote...
EDIT: Sorry to help derail the thread.  This day should be a celebration of Obsidian and Project: Eternity and classic cRPGs.


Is that Josh Sawyer singing. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]



My day = made :D

Modifié par Korusus, 16 septembre 2012 - 12:31 .


#434
MerinTB

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...
That's not reactivity. That's freedom to headcanon and fill in the blanks. The game doens't react to your choices in the same way as AP.


To you it's not reactivity.

DA2, for example, with all it's cut scenes and tracking my "choices" continually broke my immersion because the character I was playing, the one I was doing everything possible to shape a certain way, kept acting in ways that made him seem schizophrenic.  

The game was, as you put it, "registering my choices" and directly showing things to me by having my character speak and such - but it wasn't actually REACTING to my character, it was reacting to the writer's character with some subtle nods to me chosing wussy, snarky or bastard.

This is where we have to stop the discussion because we have reached an impasse.

The game giving me more blank paper and more tools (pencils, charcoal, markers of all colors) to draw my own picture is more reactive to me.
The game that gives you set and rigid shapes, a handful of colors, and says "where do you want this shape and which color do you want it - look, there's that shape of that color in that spot, I'm showing it to you!" is more reactive to you.

#435
MerinTB

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And, YAY OBSIDIAN! I go off to a movie and come back to find it's passed its goal!

#436
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Korusus wrote...

Sorry to bring up the troll word, I removed it because I don't want to bring the level of conversation down any further.  Elevation Partners was an investment firm...it works like this...BioWare approaches Elevation Partners for the funds to create a holding-group company that both injects capital and signals their willingness to be bought out.  EP fronts the money and creates the holding group of which they own the majority of the shares.  EA buys out the holding group, not EP.  EP gets their payday, the unnamed "VG Holding employees" (read: BioWare's former owners) get their payday, everyone is happy.


I'd love to see proof for any of this. I guess you don't have any, though.

#437
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EntropicAngel wrote...

Korusus wrote...

Sorry to bring up the troll word, I removed it because I don't want to bring the level of conversation down any further.  Elevation Partners was an investment firm...it works like this...BioWare approaches Elevation Partners for the funds to create a holding-group company that both injects capital and signals their willingness to be bought out.  EP fronts the money and creates the holding group of which they own the majority of the shares.  EA buys out the holding group, not EP.  EP gets their payday, the unnamed "VG Holding employees" (read: BioWare's former owners) get their payday, everyone is happy.


I'd love to see proof for any of this. I guess you don't have any, though.


It's just what happened.  Unless you think the two guys that paid blood, sweat, and tears founding BioWare and making it a success had no say whatsoever in their privately-owned company being bought out for nearly a billion dollars.

Josh Sawyer seems giddy with excitement, exactly where he needs to be for this project.

#438
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Korusus wrote...

It's just what happened.  Unless you think the two guys that paid blood, sweat, and tears founding BioWare and making it a success had no say whatsoever in their privately-owned company being bought out for nearly a billion dollars.


I guess I'm one of those "proove it to me" type of people.

#439
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Stretch goals are coming soon!

www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/308631

I hope Obsidian has looked at the campaigns of Order of the Stick, Reaper, and others that used effective stretch goals, added donation tiers, and constant updates over time to keep interest high and keep the money rolling in!

#440
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MerinTB wrote...

Stretch goals are coming soon!

www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/308631

I hope Obsidian has looked at the campaigns of Order of the Stick, Reaper, and others that used effective stretch goals, added donation tiers, and constant updates over time to keep interest high and keep the money rolling in!


This is where it gets interesting.  We now have 30 days to rack up some overkill points.  Spread the word imho.^_^

#441
Chromie

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Come on mod tools.

#442
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MerinTB wrote...

Stretch goals are coming soon!

www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/308631

I hope Obsidian has looked at the campaigns of Order of the Stick, Reaper, and others that used effective stretch goals, added donation tiers, and constant updates over time to keep interest high and keep the money rolling in!


It already has some seriously impressive donation tiers. Not sure you can get much higher than "name a tavern or inn, weapon/armor/accessory & an NPC."

#443
Jozape

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EntropicAngel wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Stretch goals are coming soon!

www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/308631

I hope Obsidian has looked at the campaigns of Order of the Stick, Reaper, and others that used effective stretch goals, added donation tiers, and constant updates over time to keep interest high and keep the money rolling in!


It already has some seriously impressive donation tiers. Not sure you can get much higher than "name a tavern or inn, weapon/armor/accessory & an NPC."


They can add more intermediate tiers though. A more substantial all digital package would be nice, if there was anything at all to offer anyways.

#444
MerinTB

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Korusus wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Korusus wrote...
Sorry to bring up the troll word, I removed it because I don't want to bring the level of conversation down any further.  Elevation Partners was an investment firm...it works like this...BioWare approaches Elevation Partners for the funds to create a holding-group company that both injects capital and signals their willingness to be bought out.  EP fronts the money and creates the holding group of which they own the majority of the shares.  EA buys out the holding group, not EP.  EP gets their payday, the unnamed "VG Holding employees" (read: BioWare's former owners) get their payday, everyone is happy.

I'd love to see proof for any of this. I guess you don't have any, though.

It's just what happened.  Unless you think the two guys that paid blood, sweat, and tears founding BioWare and making it a success had no say whatsoever in their privately-owned company being bought out for nearly a billion dollars.


from wikipedia -
The next few years saw a number of changes in BioWare's corporate status. In November 2005, it was announced that BioWare and Pandemic Studios (itself founded by former Activision employees) would be joining forces, with private equity fund Elevation Partners
investing in the partnership. On October 11, 2007, however, it was
announced that this new partnership (organized as VG Holding Corp) had
been bought by Electronic Arts.[7] BioWare therefore became a unit of EA, but retained its own branding.

The reference material - http://www.1up.com/n...ioware-pandemic

Other sources - As far as investment firms doing shady things, like buying a company with a loan from banks using the company they are about to buy as collateral (a company that often doesn't  even know it's being bought), just do a little research on websites about business and the practice of such entities.

#445
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EntropicAngel wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Obviously that is what I meant. The doctors became apart of EA and now are under their control while Obsidian even with all the problems they have faced with Bethesda, Lucas Arts and cancelled projects have remained independent I think that means something at least to me. They let their games do the talking for them not PR.

EDIT: Well I guess stockholders could have screwed them over too so there is that.


That is not what you meant. The phrase "X took Y's money" means that X chose to take Y's money. Bioware did not have a choice here.

Edit: say what, namelessone? You sure?

Then Bioware shouldn't be there? 


I would say no, as Bioware remains a distinct franchise, even if they are owned by EA.


Sorry, Guess my memory is fuzzy.

#446
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Jozape wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Stretch goals are coming soon!

www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/308631

I hope Obsidian has looked at the campaigns of Order of the Stick, Reaper, and others that used effective stretch goals, added donation tiers, and constant updates over time to keep interest high and keep the money rolling in!


It already has some seriously impressive donation tiers. Not sure you can get much higher than "name a tavern or inn, weapon/armor/accessory & an NPC."


They can add more intermediate tiers though. A more substantial all digital package would be nice, if there was anything at all to offer anyways.


Precisely.  It's about generating interest, keeping people coming back, keeping the media interested in your success that gets more eyes to the Kickstarter and gets more donations.

Richard Burlew stumbled on his massive success.  I think Reaper brilliantly planned it, though.

The trick with new doantion tiers is to subtly shift them from lower to higher, but in small waves... get a decent percentage of those $20 donations to up to $25,  then get those $65's to jump to $80.  You make it a game, you dangle one more carrot in front of people.

The BIGGEST mistake Kickstarter drives can make is to announce any, let alone all, stretch goals at the start.  The next biggest is to put ALL your reward tiers up right away.  Save some spaces in-between, get donators who have talents to offer additional things, listen to the commentors to see what else they'd like and what'd get them to donate more.

#447
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Nameless one7 wrote...

Sorry, Guess my memory is fuzzy.


I wasn't saying you were wrong, but just asking if you were sure.

#448
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Update 1 is up.

#449
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Nameless one7 wrote...

Update 1 is up.


Update 1 TL;DR edition: There is no update yet.

:lol:

Modifié par Rubios, 16 septembre 2012 - 01:20 .


#450
Barbarossa2010

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

Cultist wrote...

$1,117,465 hell yeah!
BioWare called us a vocal minority, those who hated arcadeness, jRPG and AWESOME BUTTON RPG. Well, looks like vocal minority managed to gather a million $ to support a game they wanted.
To add salt to the injury - that money could be with BioWare, should they not turn to Call of Duty crowd and turn Origins into abominable Dragon Age 2.
Now, looks like BioWare will have some competition in the future.



Errr, just to keep things in perspective, look at the total number backers.

And I say this as a contributor that loves Obsidian as a developer.



Allan, first let me say that I appreciate your sincere engagement with your company's consumers on this forum, but with all due respect, that is PRECISELY the attitude that has brought Kickstarter into being and forced "lesser" developers and studios into private capital raising venues to address, what a great many apparently feel is, an underserved market.  There are fairly strong indicators all around us that many gaming consumers (who at least perceive themselves as disenfranchised) want products that the market is just not providing; and that the market, acting as markets do, perhaps has begun to find remedies for these underserved consumers in opportunities like Kickstarter that might well lead to alternate delivery methods for niche (truly an unknown at this point) demand products to the marketplace. 

Because lets face it from their perspective its becoming more and more obvious, to compound the feelings of being underserved consumers, these type of products are dead on arrival when pitched to big publishers who are desperately looking for wider markets and 'the next big thing,' which has resulted in (certainly in the eyes of the underserved as) severely diluted end products with less value, and established and accepted business models of less is more (with a few exceptions, granted).  

If anything these numbers represent x% of potential consumers that desire this sort of product.  Do we really know what those numbers mean? Do we know the end number as of 30 days from now?  Do we know what percentage these numbers represent of the potential market for this (or this type of) game?  Merely stating this in the manner that you have, only invites one of these consumers to ask you what you know of market projections and capital finance. Do you really know something of these projections, or are you just a bit miffed that your company was called out and, in turn lashed out rather unfairly, even as "a supporter?"

I really hate to preach, but this just rubbed me the wrong way...and yes I know you probably meant no real offense by it, as your engagement from my perspective is normally honest, sincere and fair minded. Perhaps the fangs just came out when someone called your company out?  

I hate to say it, but this is the attitude we have come to expect from Bioware; an attitude that is giving rise to the likes of Kickstarter.

Respectfully

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 16 septembre 2012 - 01:21 .