1774 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

^I'll also reiterate the fact that there's no measuring stick here. Has bioware ever gotten 30,000 PC platform pre-orders for a game a full year and a half before its estimated release date?  It's not easy to get so many people to pay for something as intangeable as a concept so far in advance.
  
What we do know is that being able to Raise a million dollars from donations alone in just 24 hours by doing nothing but promising an old-school RPG experience  (and doing so without the benefit of a multi-million dollar advertising campaign to send that message), is by  itself a profound statement to Anyone who's in the industry. And lets not sell this thing short. If the Donations break the 4-5 million dollar mark in a month, then I'm pretty sure we're looking at something a little more industry relevant than simply some "niche" thing relegated to the fringes.  We will INDEED be able to compare this game's popularity to, say, Dragon age 2.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 16 septembre 2012 - 01:42 .

[Costin_Razvan]

We will INDEED be able to compare this game's popularity to, say, Dragon age 2.

DA2 still sold 2 million copies, keep in mind that, or more I dunno and it has tens of thousands of drones supporting it I think.

[MerinTB]

Yrkoon wrote...
^I'll also reiterate the fact that there's no measuring stick here. Has bioware ever gotten 30,000 PC platform pre-orders for a game a full year and a half before its estimated release date?  It's not easy to get so many people to pay for something as intangeable as a concept so far in advance.
  
What we do know is that being able to Raise a million dollars from donations alone in just 24 hours by doing nothing but promising an old-school RPG experience, is itself a profound message to Anyone who's in the industry. And lets not sell this thing short. If the Donations break the 4-5 million dollar mark in a month, then I'm pretty sure we're looking at something a little more industry relevant than simply some "niche" thing relegated to the fringes.  We will INDEED be able to compare this game's popularity to, say, Dragon age 2.

There are few metrics for this, yes.

In one sense this is amazing and barely precedented (Double Fine Adventure, Wasteland 2, Banner Saga, Shadowrun Returns)...

in another, it's sheer unprecendented nature, combined with this whole phenomenon of Kickstarter and crowdsourcing, says something.

Something about niche markets and success by smaller markets being directly addressed.

I think key is that it is not the same thing as mainstream, as the mass market.  This is something different than what the big publishers supply.  Two different worlds.

Comparing the two is folly.

[MerinTB]

http://www.kickstart...ty/posts/309364

Those are perfect stretch goals.

Well played, Obsidian.  Well played.

Modifié par MerinTB, 16 septembre 2012 - 01:41 .

[NKKKK]

Bioware, take note, THIS IS REAL ARTISTIC INTEGRITY
Also, Stretch goals.

1.1 million, Base Goal – Achieved!
Base game includes three
races, five classes, and five companions. We have ideas for these, but
we want to hear your opinions on what you'd like to see. Stay tuned to Kickstarter, our website, and our forums to join in on the conversation.
1.4 million, New Playable Race, class, and Companion!
Expands your options for character creation and adds a companion of the new class.1.6 million, a Mac Version of Project Eternity and The Story Grows!
We've
listened and we’ll make a Mac version of the game at this tier. We're
also going to add a new major storyline along with new quests,
locations, NPCs, and unique loot (special histories everyone?).
1.8 million, New Playable Race, class, and Companion!
The
options grow for your main character and the roster of your motley crew
expands with the addition of a new companion from the selected class.
2.0 million, Player House!
Getyour own house in the game that you can customize, store equipment in,
and where your companions hang out, or, as the elves say, "chillax".
2.2 million, a new Region, a new Faction and another new Companion! And, dare we say it... ? LINUX!
Great news, everyone! For the Tarball Knights of Gzippia out there, we'll be adding Linux support!
Also,
the world of Project Eternity grows in a major way with the inclusion
of a whole new faction and the territory it holds. This adds new NPCs,
quests, magic items, and hours of gameplay. And yes, you got it, another
companion.We've been listening to your feedback, and have the following announcements:

• 
  DRM Free: We are looking into it! Please check back for updates.
• 
  Digital Only Tiers are coming!
• 
  PayPal is coming asap. Please be patient!
• 
  New $5k Tier. We are looking into a new $5k tier since it sold out so quickly! We are looking into equivalent alternatives.

Basically, more money, bigger game. Give these people more money!

Modifié par NKKKK, 16 septembre 2012 - 01:50 .

[Jozape]

Hmm, an whole region + faction? We need to double funding ASAP.

[Nameless one7]

Wish I had more to give, but alas I don't.

[addiction21]

Yrkoon wrote...

^I'll also reiterate the fact that there's no measuring stick here. Has bioware ever gotten 30,000 PC platform pre-orders for a game a full year and a half before its estimated release date?  .

Have they ever offered pre orders a full year and a half ahead of time?


There is a point where that axe you have been grinding turns into bloody fingertips.

[Allan Schumacher]

Allan, first let me say that I appreciate your sincere engagement with your company's consumers on this forum, but with all due respect, that is PRECISELY the attitude that has brought Kickstarter into being and forced "lesser" developers and studios into private capital raising venues to address, what a great many apparently feel is, an underserved market.

Given I donated, I am quite clear on feeling it's an underserved market.  I want to see what they do as well.

Taking this and making it evidence that this confirms (or denies) that the group was a vocal minority isn't correct.  There frankly isn't enough numbers in the kickstarter contribution to be able to qualify whether or not a group is or is not a vocal minority.

here are fairly strong indicators all around us that many gaming consumers (who at least perceive themselves as disenfranchised) want products that the market is just not providing; and that the market, acting as markets do, perhaps has begun to find remedies for these underserved consumers in opportunities like Kickstarter that might well lead to alternate delivery methods for niche (truly an unknown at this point) demand products to the marketplace. 

No kidding.  I've been an avid support of Kickstarter ever since Tim Schaefer started his, and while I didn't contribute (since I'm not erally an adventure gamer), I did contribute to Wasteland 2.  In fact, I have actively encouraged people on this very forum to check it out since I think it'd be right up a lot of their alleys.

Merely stating this in the manner that you have, only invites one of these consumers to ask you what you know of market projections and capital finance. Do you really know something of these projections, or are you just a bit miffed that your company was called out and, in turn lashed out rather unfairly, even as "a supporter?"

No, I'm NOT qualified.  Yet you talk down to me as though you are.  Or are you just miffed because I called you out that perhaps this doesn't actually have any bearing on whether or not someone is a "vocal minority."  If you think that this demonstrates that it's not just a vocal minority after all, then I guess we agree to disagree.  I don't think this demonstrates that it is or isn't.  What it does tell me is that there's a decent sized group of people that really want to see a game of this quality and they are organized and have enough capital distributed amongst them for Obsidian to achieve the target that they wanted to.

If you're thinking I was defensive, yeah I was.  Because someone was taking this not as evidence that "hey here's a game that I want to play and yay kickstarter for allowing it to happen" it becomes "See BioWare.  You were wrong!"

I love what kickstarter has done.  Just like I love the opportunity that digital distribution services have done.  Removing barriers to entry in the gaming market only allows for the talent pool of prospectful game developers to grow.  You want to know why?  Because a game developer is more able to deliver a quality product to a group, even if that group were ONLY 30,000 people.  You know what's awesome about Kickstarter... the game literally doesn't need to sell a single copy in order to be a success.  All it needs to do is satisfy those that have contributed.  I think that's amazingly powerful.

That a niche title is able to achieve the requisite funding and (hopefully) deliver a game that the target audience wants doesn't mean that it's not still a niche title with a smaller audience.

I hate to say it, but this is the attitude we have come to expect from Bioware; an attitude that is giving rise to the likes of Kickstarter.

An attitude of not letting someone take some data and make a claim from it that can't be supported by such data?

I really hate to preach, but this just rubbed me the wrong way...and yes I know you probably meant no real offense by it, as your engagement from my perspective is normally honest, sincere and fair minded. Perhaps the fangs just came out when someone called your company out? 

Perhaps the fangs came out in you when someone didn't agree that this doesn't mean that it's not a vocal minority?  Look in the mirror and wonder if my response didn't illicit in you what you think Cultist's response does for me.

The main reason why I qualified that I contributed is because I am not someone against Kickstarter or the opportunities it provides.

As for myself, there were no "fangs out" until someone literally decided to post a disrespectful post towards me.  Which I found your post.  I found it hypocritical since you basically call me out for being overly sensitive and essentially being a jerk to the fanbase, while demonstrating (and even admitting) that the same has happened to you.

I had a post with two sentences in it.  One encouraged a poster to keep some perspective since they were using this to make claims.  The other qualified that I'm not against the kickstarter model since I actively contribute to it.  Apparently that slights you enough to imply that I was not being honest, sincere, or fair minded with it.  At least you did acknowlege that I probably didn't mean any offense, even if you decided to tear into me.


On Obsidian's boards I even state that I hope the game is a runaway success and they can post huge sales numbers because I'd love data points that show this is a more viable market than many may give it credit for.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 16 septembre 2012 - 02:09 .

[wsandista]

Come on guys, Project Eternity getting funded is a great thing. this bickering doesn't need to happen.

There is currently no evidence for or against that this isn't a vocal minority.

First of all, there is no sales data yet. There will almost certainly be those who will buy the game that did not contribute, the number is just unknown at the moment. This number will indicate the appeal of the game to those who are unwilling to donate to and/or preorder a game they know very little about, and want to see more detail before making a decision.

Secondly, there is still 30 days to go and they will have their Paypal account set up soon. More money and more backers are sure to flow in, so we aren't even looking at the final numbers yet.

Thirdly, it is Saturday and a damn good game just got funded. please don't ruin it by being douchebags. Just chill the **** out and be happy this game which desperately needs to be made is going to happen.

Modifié par wsandista, 16 septembre 2012 - 02:24 .

[ClaudeDidier]

Like others before, there was no doubt for me to become a backer with $35 when I heard about this project. I loved what Black Isle did and what Obsidian created afterwards - even if the games turned out to be buggy at first.
I also created a thread in the German Forum Section...
Can't wait until 2014...

[Allan Schumacher]

That I still hold Obsidian's games in high regard despite their tech issues (though I've rarely been burned on them as bad as others it seems) speaks to just how well done I find their characters and narratives.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Is it going to be DA:O style? or further up (higher)?

2d or 3d? Where can I get this info? I only saw a video on the kickstarter page.

Probably the same. As for 2d or 3d, probably 3d, I think it's reasonable to expect 3d.

Slimgrin: If you think I'm going to quit promoting the idea that the combination of action game with stat heavy gameplay is superior to just stat heavy gameplay then you have something else coming.

You need to 'promote' that view in a thread about one of the few as of yet unreleased games of that nature when there's a whole market out there that's more than willing to cater to your specific tastes?  As if we've been getting games like Wasteland 2 or Project Eternity every other month.

I mean, why even post in a thread about an RPG then? I'd find it very surprising if a person who cared about roleplaying first and foremost in an RPG would have prioritized stuff like voice acting or cinematics over... actual roleplaying elements. Since you listed Dark Souls and The Witcher 2 (which I'm not saying are bad) as your favourite games I'll have to assume you don't really care about roleplaying (yet do complain about a game being an RPG in a thread about an RPG) since those two games have little to nothing to do with roleplaying.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I for one am glad that with the success of Kickstarter, not every RPG being released is Cinematic Action Game with RPG elements #316.

While I certainly think some of these games are top notch (Deus Ex: HR, Witcher 2, Alpha Protocol, etc), I have always felt that the design and creativity of games such as the original Fallouts, Planescape, Darklands, etc have been unparalleled by modern games. Mainly because of how the development process has been impeded by publisher requirements.

And that's not nostalgia talking either, I have some current LPs of Fallout 2 and Darklands lying around here.

Whether the game is actually any good or not is something we'll see when it comes out. The fact that they're making it and the fact that such games are drawing such positive interest is what's important.

Can't believe people are ****ing that a game in the vein of BG, PS:T and IWD is too much like BG, PS:T and IWD with not enough CUTSCENES and VOICE ACTING.

This site ****es on a daily basis that BioWare games like Mass Effect or Dragon Age 2 aren't like their older games like Origins or BG. Then, when a game is on Kickstarter promoting that kind of game, people **** it isn't enough like Mass Effect or Dragon Age 2.

Jesus.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 16 septembre 2012 - 02:37 .

[Chromie]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...since those two games have little to nothing to do with roleplaying.

I'm not going to debate or say anything further but I disagree here.

CrustyBot wrote...

I for one am glad that with the success of Kickstarter, not every RPG being released is Cinematic Action Game with half-baked RPG elements #316.

While I certainly think some of these games are top notch (Deus Ex: HR, Witcher 2, Alpha Protocol, etc), I have always felt that the design and creativity of games such as the original Fallouts, Planescape, Darklands, etc have been unparalleled by modern games. Mainly because of how the development process has been impeded by publisher requirements.

And that's not nostalgia talking either, I have some current LPs of Fallout 2 and Darklands lying around here.

Whether the game is actually any good or not is something we'll see when it comes out. The fact that they're making it and the fact that such games are drawing such positive interest is what's important.

 

Just left the trials in the beginning myself. People like to say "that's nostalgia talking" but not for me I've played FO2 at least 6 times completely it's one of favorite games.

It's games like these that oldschool rpg fans want and that is why the kickstarter made it's money so fast. 

CrustyBot wrote... 
Can't believe people are ****ing that a game in the vein of BG, PS:T and IWD is too much like BG, PS:T and IWD with not enough CUTSCENES and VOICE ACTING.

  

Of all the threads frankly. Obsidian isn't being koi they said they are making an old school rpgs directly influenced by the infinity engine games. What a stupid complaint to have.

Modifié par Skelter192, 16 septembre 2012 - 02:40 .

[wsandista]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

That I still hold Obsidian's games in high regard despite their tech issues (though I've rarely been burned on them as bad as others it seems) speaks to just how well done I find their characters and narratives.

You know, I've never had any more problems with Obsidian bugs than I have other developers.(Except Strom of Zehir, which when installed screwed up NWN2). In fact in some cases, there are less, like DA2 at release.(Not trying to take a potshot, just being honest)

It is a real shame they get singled out for bugs as much as they do.

[Sister Goldring]

Quote: Wasandista

Thirdly, it is Saturday and a damn good game just got funded. please don't ruin it by being douchebags. Just chill the **** out and be happy this game which desperately needs to be made is going to happen.

Yep, I hate to say it but you're kind of ruining my kickstarter buzz.

Edit - left out the quotey thing

Modifié par Sister Goldring, 16 septembre 2012 - 02:41 .

[Chromie]

wsandista wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

That I still hold Obsidian's games in high regard despite their tech issues (though I've rarely been burned on them as bad as others it seems) speaks to just how well done I find their characters and narratives.

You know, I've never had any more problems with Obsidian bugs than I have other developers.(Except Strom of Zehir, which when installed screwed up NWN2). In fact in some cases, there are less, like DA2 at release.(Not trying to take a potshot, just being honest)

It is a real shame they get singled out for bugs as much as they do.

I find it a shame that they get a lot of hate for bug when most of the time they don't handle the QA. New Vegas had a bad launch and probably made the most noise and the QA was handled by Bethesda which indirectly caused them to get an 84 on metacritic and lose out on their bonuses. 

I've played enough of Dungeon Siege III to see that Obsidian can handle making a bug free game (well for me anyways) with their own engine.

[marshalleck]

I just about wept tears of sheer joy.

CONTRIBUTED.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Fair's fair though, while other games have extenuating circumstances, Obsidian messed up Neverwinter Nights 2 all by themselves.

[slimgrin]

CrustyBot wrote...

I for one am glad that with the success of Kickstarter, not every RPG being released is Cinematic Action Game with RPG elements #316.

While I certainly think some of these games are top notch (Deus Ex: HR, Witcher 2, Alpha Protocol, etc), I have always felt that the design and creativity of games such as the original Fallouts, Planescape, Darklands, etc have been unparalleled by modern games. Mainly because of how the development process has been impeded by publisher requirements.

And that's not nostalgia talking either, I have some current LPs of Fallout 2 and Darklands lying around here.

Whether the game is actually any good or not is something we'll see when it comes out. The fact that they're making it and the fact that such games are drawing such positive interest is what's important.

Can't believe people are ****ing that a game in the vein of BG, PS:T and IWD is too much like BG, PS:T and IWD with not enough CUTSCENES and VOICE ACTING.

This site ****es on a daily basis that BioWare games like Mass Effect or Dragon Age 2 aren't like their older games like Origins or BG. Then, when a game is on Kickstarter promoting that kind of game, people **** it isn't enough like Mass Effect or Dragon Age 2.

Jesus.

I'm happy they're making the kind of game they want to, and that it'll be a throwback. The last thing we need is more clones in this industry. But terms like 'cinematic game' or 'action combat' are more often than not pejoratives on this site and have no basis in fact. They're just different game mechanics.

[Chromie]

CrustyBot wrote...

Fair's fair though, while other games have extenuating circumstances, Obsidian messed up Neverwinter Nights 2 all by themselves.

And I admit they did but New Vegas really hurt them. 


So people want George Ziets back;make it a stretch goal!

Modifié par Skelter192, 16 septembre 2012 - 03:01 .