1774 réponses à ce sujet

[wsandista]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

And how do you think your character makes the choice? He just flips a coin? You define his thought process, and then commit him to a choice. That thought process should then be applied to later choices, to keep up a consisten character. Or, if you want, you can evolve the belief system.

But what happens when the PC acts without my input? When the character does something that I do not explicitly consent to, that is a problem.

You don't need a blank paper protagonist to role play a character, you can do it with a semi defined one. It's just more confined and limited, but it provides greater in-game repercussions.

I do. If the PC is semi-defined, they always end up breaking my character design.

Not that I think TW is a bad series or anything, I just can't roleplay in it.

[Gibb_Shepard]

That's why you have to approach it differently. You can't write out a character design, and then play TW series. You have to play, see the kind of character Geralt is, and then craft him from there.

You may not be able to Roleplay the way you want to, but it still is Roleplaying. It's essentially molding a preconceived character concept, as opposed to creating one. It's skipping the creation process, and getting straight into the crafting process. You may dislike that you cannot create a character, but that doesn't mean it isn't a Roleplaying game (Roelplaying being the key word).

[slimgrin]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

That's why you have to approach it differently. You can't write out a character design, and then play TW series. You have to play, see the kind of character Geralt is, and then craft him from there.

You may not be able to Roleplay the way you want to, but it still is Roleplaying. It's essentially molding a preconceived character concept, as opposed to creating one. It's skipping the creation process, and getting straight into the crafting process. You may dislike that you cannot create a character, but that doesn't mean it isn't a Roleplaying game (Roelplaying being the key word).

You're wasting your time. This is the good ol' days thread...and get the hell off my lawn.

Modifié par slimgrin, 16 septembre 2012 - 03:59 .

[wsandista]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

That's why you have to approach it differently. You can't write out a character design, and then play TW series. You have to play, see the kind of character Geralt is, and then craft him from there.

You may not be able to Roleplay the way you want to, but it still is Roleplaying. It's essentially molding a preconceived character concept, as opposed to creating one. It's skipping the creation process, and getting straight into the crafting process. You may dislike that you cannot create a character, but that doesn't mean it isn't a Roleplaying game (Roelplaying being the key word).

Let's not continue this discussion in this thread. If you really want to continue this, just PM me or start a new thread about roleplaying.

Back on topic: We need to get to at least 1.8 mil to get the max amount of class and race options. I'm selling my N64 and Mario Cart 64 to come up with the funds, what are the rest of you doing?

slimgrin wrote...

You're wasting your time. 

No (s)he isn't. Gibb_Shepard is being quite respectful and is not resorting to petty name-calling because we happen to disagree. An honest discussion about different play-styles is never a waste of time.

Modifié par wsandista, 16 septembre 2012 - 04:01 .

[Chromie]

wsandista wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

That's why you have to approach it differently. You can't write out a character design, and then play TW series. You have to play, see the kind of character Geralt is, and then craft him from there.

You may not be able to Roleplay the way you want to, but it still is Roleplaying. It's essentially molding a preconceived character concept, as opposed to creating one. It's skipping the creation process, and getting straight into the crafting process. You may dislike that you cannot create a character, but that doesn't mean it isn't a Roleplaying game (Roelplaying being the key word).

Let's not continue this discussion in this thread. If you really want to continue this, just PM me or start a new thread about roleplaying.

Back on topic: We need to get to at least 1.8 mil to get the max amount of class and race options. I'm selling my N64 and Mario Cart 64 to come up with the funds, what are the rest of you doing?

Not eating for a week. I'm getting the $140 tier.

[wsandista]

Skelter192 wrote...

Not eating for a week. I'm getting the $140 tier.

I'm considering selling off Pokemon Yellow, Gold, and Blue and going for the $500.

[Yrkoon]

I have no doubt in my mind that it's going to reach at least 3 million. Again, Wasteland 2 accomplished it, and it took 7 friggin days for it to reach the same numbers that Project Eternity did in what.... 27 hours?.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 16 septembre 2012 - 04:13 .

[Dragoonlordz]

wsandista wrote...

Back on topic: We need to get to at least 1.8 mil to get the max amount of class and race options. I'm selling my N64 and Mario Cart 64 to come up with the funds, what are the rest of you doing?

Nothing much at the moment, I upped my contribution already today prior to stretch goals. The goals themselves I have faith will hit without me requiring another upgrade. What I will upgrade for is when they add new options to the pledge choices when one interests me more than the last within reasonable price difference.

Specifically I want the artbook physical version alongside digital game and soundtrack.

If they allow a a boxed version with physical artbook and cloth map under the $200 (including postage) I may be interested. But not at the $250+$30 delivery price or $500+(postage) which is far too high for the very specific things I want.

If they did a digital version with physical artbook for around the $100 mark I would also be interested.

If did a boxed version with just physical artbook and soundtrack and no t-shirt or cloth map for about $120-$140 I would be interested.

But the fact they put physical  artbook right down the list at the $250 and $500 mark puts me off when I want the book mostly out of all the extra benefits on top of game itself.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 septembre 2012 - 04:21 .

[wsandista]

Yrkoon wrote...

I have no doubt in my mind that it's going to reach at least 3 million. Again, Wasteland 2 accomplished it, and it took 7 friggin days for it to reach the same numbers that Project Eternity did in what.... 27 hours?.

I'm willing to call it at about $4.5 - 5million. 100,000 giving an average of $50 is not improbable.

[wsandista]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Back on topic: We need to get to at least 1.8 mil to get the max amount of class and race options. I'm selling my N64 and Mario Cart 64 to come up with the funds, what are the rest of you doing?

Nothing much at the moment, I upped my contribution already today prior to stretch goals. The goals themselves I have faith will hit without me requiring another upgrade. What I will upgrade for is when they add new options to the pledge choices when one interests me more than the last within reasonable price difference.

Specifically I want the artbook physical version alongside digital game and soundtrack or if they allow a a boxed version with artbook and cloth map under the $200 (including postage) I may be interested. But not at the $250+$30 delivery price or $500+(postage) which is far too high for the very specific things I want.

If they did a digital version with physical artbook for around the $100 mark I would also be interested.

If did a boxed version with just artbook and soundtrack and no t-shirt or cloth map for about $120-$140 I would be interested.

But the fact they put artbook right down the list at the $250 and $500 mark puts me off when I want the book mostly out of all the extra benefits on top of game itself.

If I'm not mistaken, I read that they are working on new tiers concerning digital only. I could see something like that being offered.

[Sister Goldring]

Skelter192 wrote...

Not eating for a week. I'm getting the $140 tier.

Damn it - there better be some elf snogging in this bloody game!

I've gone $280 for the signed box...and I'm hiding my credit card reciepts from my husband!

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Yrkoon wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...
To be clear, I have absolutely nothing against the Witcher 2, but I find it very perplexing as to how anyone would think it possible to roleplay in it. It's an action game with RPG elements like Deus Ex, and there's nothing wrong with that... that's how I see it.

To be fair,   (and while we're discussing the old school) It's also really difficult to Role Play the Nameless One in Planescape Torment.  In fact, you have no RP options at all  beyond deciding your morality.  Of course, every single choice you get  to make (and you get dozens and dozens throughout the game) are morality based, thus projecting a rather strong feeling of RP.  This is probably why PS:T was able to avoid criticism from the "is this an RPG?!" crowd.   Because otherwise,  it's set up remarkably the same way as Witcher 2:

1) Set protagonist who's appearance  and name cannot be changed?  Check
2) Set background, therefore the player can't create one himself?  Check
3) Very little  (if any) varied choice in equipment?  Check.  Actually Witcher 2 wins out on this one, as the Nameless one cannot even wear armor
4) Protagonist has Amnesia, thus has no choice but to roleplay someone who has no memories of his past and is at the mercy of others who have  such information?  Check.

I know Planescape: Torment is sometimes brought up when discussing set protagonists in RPGs, but the player has as much freedom over TNO's morality and personality as is typical of a player character in RPGs. His appearance, gender, name and race are predefined, which is admittedly pretty limiting, especially for a DnD RPG -- but those are arguably things the player doesn't need to have control over, or at least can still roleplay in spite of, so I still consider him 'my' character, whereas if I play as Geralt or Adam Jensen -- I can make different choices, sure -- but I always apply those characters' reasoning for doing something.

Generally, I don't mind playing as a character with a significant background (like the Exile using a nuclear weapon in KotOR II, or Revan being... y'know) as long as I have control over my character when I start the game.

Modifié par Fisto The Sexbot, 16 septembre 2012 - 04:24 .

[Dragoonlordz]

wsandista wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Back on topic: We need to get to at least 1.8 mil to get the max amount of class and race options. I'm selling my N64 and Mario Cart 64 to come up with the funds, what are the rest of you doing?

Nothing much at the moment, I upped my contribution already today prior to stretch goals. The goals themselves I have faith will hit without me requiring another upgrade. What I will upgrade for is when they add new options to the pledge choices when one interests me more than the last within reasonable price difference.

Specifically I want the artbook physical version alongside digital game and soundtrack.

If they allow a a boxed version with physical artbook and cloth map under the $200 (including postage) I may be interested. But not at the $250+$30 delivery price or $500+(postage) which is far too high for the very specific things I want.

If they did a digital version with physical artbook for around the $100 mark I would also be interested.

If did a boxed version with just physical artbook and soundtrack and no t-shirt or cloth map for about $120-$140 I would be interested.

But the fact they put physical artbook right down the list at the $250 and $500 mark puts me off when I want the book mostly out of all the extra benefits on top of game itself.

If I'm not mistaken, I read that they are working on new tiers concerning digital only. I could see something like that being offered.

Well they need to place an option for the physical artbook at lower tier than currently stands for me to increase my funding. The reality is I am funding/pledging on multiple projects on kickstarter so I can't afford to go to the sort of prices currently has the physical artbook placed at.

[wsandista]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Well they need to place an option for the physical artbook at lower tier than currently stands for me to increase my funding. The reality is I am funding/pledging on multiple projects on kickstarter so I can't afford to go to the sort of prices currently has the physical artbook placed at.

I totally agree. I'm pretty sure that if they take out the boxed copy, that is what you will get for $140. We can only wait and see.

Anyone in the mood to start speculating?

[wsandista]

Rubios wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Not eating for a week. I'm getting the $140 tier.

I'm considering selling off Pokemon Yellow, Gold, and Blue and going for the $500.

Wait... are those things worth something?

Yes.

[leferd]

I'm amazed at how many big money donors they got after just one day.

[Yrkoon]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

To be fair,   (and while we're discussing the old school) It's also really difficult to Role Play the Nameless One in Planescape Torment.  In fact, you have no RP options at all  beyond deciding your morality.  Of course, every single choice you get  to make (and you get dozens and dozens throughout the game) are morality based, thus projecting a rather strong feeling of RP.  This is probably why PS:T was able to avoid criticism from the "is this an RPG?!" crowd.   Because otherwise,  it's set up remarkably the same way as Witcher 2:

1) Set protagonist who's appearance  and name cannot be changed?  Check
2) Set background, therefore the player can't create one himself?  Check
3) Very little  (if any) varied choice in equipment?  Check.  Actually Witcher 2 wins out on this one, as the Nameless one cannot even wear armor
4) Protagonist has Amnesia, thus has no choice but to roleplay someone who has no memories of his past and is at the mercy of others who have  such information?  Check.

I know Planescape: Torment is sometimes brought up when discussing set protagonists in RPGs, but the player has as much freedom over TNO's morality and personality as is typical of a player character in RPGs. His appearance, gender, name and race are predefined, which is admittedly pretty limiting, especially for a DnD RPG -- but those are arguably things the player doesn't need to have control over, or at least can still roleplay in spite of, so I still consider him 'my' character, whereas if I play as Geralt or Adam Jensen -- I can make different choices, sure -- but I always apply those characters' reasoning for doing something.

Generally, I don't mind playing as a character with a significant background (like the Exile using a nuclear weapon in KotOR II, or Revan being... y'know) as long as I have control over my character when I start the game.

 IMO I think it's safe to say that in an RPG, if you're going to strip me of the ability to  fully customize my character, the story/narrative must be astonishingly  fantastic to compensate - to the point where I find myself  prefering to use the "developer's character" in place of making my own from scratch.

This is why I maintain that PS:T and Witcher 2 succeeded in  delivering  a wonderful RPG experience, and are thus ranked on my "classics" list, while DA2 didn't.    It  fell flat on its ass.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 16 septembre 2012 - 04:53 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Gathering millions for a game that hardly costs 100,000 $ in China ... with that descriptions!

How much till now? Just give me the number!

[bussinrounds]

Dragoonlordz wrote...




I agree, I recently just took advantage of GoGs D&D promotion and picked up many of games with similar idiology and mechanics as this Eternity one will have. I have owned various versions of them in past with exception only of PS:T which I'm not sure if you recall people in my friends list kept telling me to pick up and I never got around to it. Well now I have. All those style games are great and is why I also contributed to Eternity.

What annoys me is the world is big enough for people to like Bioware's games, Obsidian's, CDPR's and/or Bethesda's etc. I am quite tired of all this hate for one not being like another when it is possible to buy from one or all developers. There is room in the market place to suit most peoples needs and kickstarter is bringing back what the currently publishers neglect. It fills a hole in the market place. I don't see why people would whine about what Obsidian does anymore than what Bioware does regarding format or style of games.

Granted each game any developer makes stands on it's own merits but the format and style of games can exist for all types. Noone is being forced to buy any. If Bioware's titles don't interest someone anymore, if their games are no longer enjoyable then buy a different game, likewise if what Eternity title proposed doesn't suit person x, y or z then buy a different game. If I want to buy a title like Witcher 2 I can and have, buy one like Skyrim or Deus EX:HR I do and also have, buy one like PS:T/BG/ID/Project Eternity or Mass Effect ditto. I can even buy all of them.

One of the elements I mentioned I disliked between DA2 and ME was how the two types were becoming the same as each other therefore reducing the quantity of different style RPG games on the marketplace. With KS I can help fund ones that publishers don't want while at same time buying the ones that publishers make possible. Bioware has a place and role to fill in producing titles I might like to buy, just like KS titles from people like Obsidian.

Why on earth are people whining about Obsidians style of RPG making or Bioware's style of RPG they create. Full VO has it's place and some developers do that, silent protaganist has it's place and some make games like that. TBS/RTS/RT+Pause, first person RP or third person RP all cater to someone so instead of whining about when a developer makes one type, just buy a different game instead of this dumb idea of "This is how you do it an RPG Bioware trololo...derpy derpy derp!" or "Why you not want to make full VO game Obsidian... All games better with full VO derpy derpy derp!" nonsense. If Obsidians project does not appeal to x then don't fund it, if Bioware's product does not appeal to y then don't buy it and likewise if Bethesda's titles doesn't appeal to z then don't buy that.

So people who go "Bioware/Bethesda/CDPR/Obsidian/Nippon Ichi/Squeenix sucks > (insert snide comment here)..." can go jump off a cliff. I am not forced to buy from any developer and I want as many developers making their own style games as possible which gives me more choice and more of a selection RPG's that I might like to buy. The more the variety of styles and formats the better. I liked ME1+3 more than ME2 by long way, I liked DAO more than DA2 by a long way but I realise that even if ME4 or DA3 doesn't sound like something I will enjoy (they do interest me very much at this stage in reality)... I know I can buy an RPG from one of the many other developers out there.

If Biowares products interest me I buy them, if a title is on KS like Eternity I help fund it. If non publisher based like Xenonnuats I can help fund or buy but at the same time a publisher title like 2KGames X-Com Enemy Unknown remake I can also buy. Room for both to exist in this world publisher and non publisher based titles. Many styles of RPG's by many different developers, the more developers producing different style titles the better whether publisher route or independant route. Tired of all this if don't do this then you suck mentality on these forums these days. People should stop trying to make every RPG the same just because they might think their preference is the only one that matters.

  Well before this kickstarter thing came about it wasn't possible to get the more traditonal type RPGs anymore, besides the occasional indie.  So it's not like fans of these kinds of games had 'all these choices'.  That's where the hostility came from.

[Brockololly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
So, to bring this back to topic. If they are going for a silent PC, I would want paragraph long options, and long conversations, in addition to the PC not being a lapdog to every NPC they meet.

You've been playing way too many modern BioWare games. Play BG2 or Torment if you want lengthy dialogue options.

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Leland would NOT be as good of a character if he had no voice acting and just more lines.

 
Sure, but its not like Eternity isn't going to have voice acting at all. Just look at the characters in BG2- for my money, they did a fantastic job in characterizing the various characters by giving them good portraits and smart use of voice acting. So giving Irenicus the voice of David Warner made him incredibly memorable, even if every single line wasn't voiced. 

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Less then 30.000 backers so far isn't exactly stellar you know. Yes there was 1 million gathered but I don't think it will matter all that much from Bioware's perspective and personally I am not surprised about the numbers they've gotten so far. When I first heard of it myself I was very eager to back it but when they announced the gameplay I said no. 

See but thats the thing with Kickstarter- if they meet their funding goals and then some, they're set. Whatever they sell once the game is done goes straight into profit. So the number of backers is irrelevent- they got their goal. The same cannot be said for a big BioWare game- they need sales out of the gate to break even and even then they have large marketing costs and so forth.

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Now games like TW2 and Dark Souls each selling over 2 million, well now THAT has an impact.

Probably not  by EA or any other big publisher's standards. EA wants multi million sellers. They've said that in order for Dead Space 3 to be considered successful enough to continue on as a franchise, it'll need to exceed 5 million copies sold. Thats insane. 
TW2 and Dark Souls might be plenty successful enough for their respective publishers, just as Project Eternity might be for Obsidian. But for the likes of EA and Ubisoft, they're going further and further down the road of mega blockbusters or bust for any retail releases.

[Brockololly]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
 Because someone was taking this not as evidence that "hey here's a game that I want to play and yay kickstarter for allowing it to happen" it becomes "See BioWare.  You were wrong!"

Allan, if BioWare would just make a game with the same attributes as Project Eternity seems to be aiming for and just set in the Dragon Age universe, I'd be all over that. 

I am curious why big publishers don't do smaller projects like this though? Is it because they focus on the number of backers being small and assume thats too small a number of people to recoup costs using a traditional sales model? Cause thats the great thing about Kickstarter- you can basically pay as much as you want up front! Its sort of the opposite of Free to Play games where you're only able to pay in small chunks after you've played the game or just a normal model where everyone pays the same rate or slightly more for a collector's edition or something. 

Or is it that even though a Kickstarter is instantly profitable once its finished and the game released, that big publishers just don't think whatever profit there is to made would be enough, compared to your big blockbuster games?

[Allan Schumacher]

wsandista wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

That I still hold Obsidian's games in high regard despite their tech issues (though I've rarely been burned on them as bad as others it seems) speaks to just how well done I find their characters and narratives.

You know, I've never had any more problems with Obsidian bugs than I have other developers.(Except Strom of Zehir, which when installed screwed up NWN2). In fact in some cases, there are less, like DA2 at release.(Not trying to take a potshot, just being honest)

It is a real shame they get singled out for bugs as much as they do.

I agree.  I seem to live a relatievly charmed life when it comes to playing games that are reportedly very buggy.  KOTOR 2 was the only one in that there was a sequence when escaping the mining station where my game stalled and Atton was stuck in an animation loop about enabling the Ebon Hawk.  It actually looked pretty damn funny hahaha