1774 réponses à ce sujet

[Anaeme]

A 3D vs 2D conversations is RAGING right now on the kickstarter comments page



http://www.kickstart...ernity/comments

Modifié par Anaeme, 16 septembre 2012 - 03:07 .

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Pedrak wrote...

Wow.

Not even a day and >200.000 $ already.

We are really starving for a BG-like RPG, aren't we.

It's kind of a mixture with people who loved Fallout (Tim Cain), Planescape: Torment (Chris Avellone), and Icewind Dale (Josh Sawyer). I'm sure, though, a large portion of donators are people who loved Baldur's Gate. I mean people who liked Fallout: 3 actually donated to Wasteland: 2 .

I always donate at the last minute because I'm always broke, but I am eyeballing collector's edition. My reason is mainly because I loved both Avellone's writing in Torment and Tim Cain's development of Fallout. Put those two things together and its all magic .

[Allan Schumacher]

I mean people who liked Fallout: 3 actually donated to Wasteland: 2

I'm one of those people!

[Jozape]

Anaeme wrote...

A 3D vs 2D conversations is RAGING right now on the kickstarter comments page



http://www.kickstart...ernity/comments

I wouldn't call it raging, it's actually been civil for the most part.

[MerinTB]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...
Yeah, the idea of donating and supporting a good cause definitely is an incentive to spend, and in most cases, over-spend. With these stretch goals in particular, it is clear that every additional dollar is going directly back into game content, which I think is an entire second "tier" of incentive. Excitement and continued donations can snowball with these kinds of stretch goals, the more people collectively give, the more people get excited. 

I can see how people could feel their dollar goes farther (assuming the goals are met).  I think there's a difference because people see this as "WIthotu may chipping in a good amount, I won't get this" whereas even if the game was the same, if it had already been made, there's some level of "eh those costs are sunk." 

Sadly I already saw one person state that they feel content was intentionally conservative in order to get more money via the kickstarter

There will always be cynics - especially among those who don't understand Kickstarter.  I've seen MANY people who keep thinking ths is just a way to rip people off and never deliver a project - and by many, I mean even mainstream media when they deign to address Kickstarter.

Back to your earlier question, Allan - I had stated long ago that I would have happily paid $100 or more just for Dragon Age: Origins.  If bigger cRPGs with more content and more freedom to create your own character takes more time, I'm willing to pay the difference for the developer to make the kind of game I want - whereas you couldn't get me to pay $5 for the most polished Call of Duty game.  My point being that for some people out there (roughly 20k, I'd guess, at this point) they cannot find the kind of game they want and they are willing to upfront support people who will make the kind of game they want.

You also have the Kickstarter junkies - I'm becoming one of them - who just like donating money to projects they think sound cool.  Most of us are nowhere near being rich, so it's not having more money.  Sociologically speaking, however, there are plenty of studies that show the richer people are the less philanthropic they actually become, and the poorer someone is the more willing they are to give to a worthy cause.  So Kickstarter let's people support games or movies or books or whatever with payments as small as $1, and the people who donate feel good about not only giving but also "voting" on the kinds of things they think are cool and would like to see.

Finally, your dollars here for a game (or whatever) have much more power and impact than on purchasing a finished product.  If, for example, you look at the sales of Mass Effect 3 - all the complaining in the world won't matter after the fact, the game sold.  The publisher and developer CAN listen to it, but does not necessarily have the incentive to.  Later potential poorer sales on other games, a possible outcome of not listening to their consumers, could easily be because of (or blamed on) many other factors.  But with Kickstarter and donating at the front end, people are putting money up for a specific version - and their voices have much more weight.  Not only do you have the developers of these games saying they are listening and directly soliciting what their contributors want (example: Shadowrun Returns put it to a community vote on what a stretch goal city would be - there are MANY examples of this kind of thing at Kickstarter)...

but you also have minority voices asking loudly for something often answered.

Best example of this - how many major publishers make Mac versions, let alone Linux versions?  No one (I think Blizzard is a Mac supporter, but that's about it really... and no one supports Linux.)  How many people crying for a Linux version got one for any big publisher's game?
Go to Kickstarter - even developers who initially never planned on Linux or upfront said it would be too expensive changed their mind not far into their campaign and most of the Kickstarter games I see have Linux versions - usually due to stretch goals, which then Linux supporters went out and campaigned to get more money to the project overall so that Linux got some love.

In my experiences and following the Kickstarter "revolution" over the last couple years, the above I believe best answers your question.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Anaeme wrote...

A 3D vs 2D conversations is RAGING right now on the kickstarter comments page



http://www.kickstart...ernity/comments

I agree with someone who posted that they should do a 2D background with 3D character models. I really couldn't care less, though. I've been fine playing and re-playing Planescape: Torment and Fallout enough to know that graphics and character models don't mean anything.

What I'm actually more concerned about is that they are using Steam to distribute the game. I hope they consider going through GOG because I have zero interest in installing Steam on my PC again.

I absolutely loved Arcanum's arwork and graphics. I wouldn't mind seeing them do something like this, but I don't even know if they have decided what engine to use. I hope they use the Onyx engine because I thought Dungeon Siege looked beautiful, but if they decide to use 2D and 3D, I wouldn't mind something like Arcanum.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Seriously wondering if I should pick Arcanum up. I played the demo but it was bugged and the official patch only fixes so much I hear. Yet the setting, gameplay and story entice me but I don't want to go through 20 hours only to end up facing game breaking bugs. Or am I wrong and have these bugs been fixed?

Project Eternity sounds really great and hopefully with the money they have OE take their time and don't rush it. I know many seem to be uncaring about bugs at release but for a game that has more than a million dollars pleged for it, nah, I wouldn't be uncaring if I encountered game breaking bugs at release.

Also I really hope this means we get to see more isometric/traditional/top-down RPG's from other developers. This shows that there's still a market for such games so I hope all goes well with this project and look forward to seeing how it looks and plays.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 16 septembre 2012 - 03:47 .

[Nameless one7]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Seriously wondering if I should pick Arcanum up. I played the demo but it was bugged and the official patch only fixes so much I hear. Yet the setting, gameplay and story entice me but I don't want to go through 20 hours only to end up facing game breaking bugs. Or am I wrong and have these bugs been fixed?

Project Eternity sounds really great and hopefully with the money they have OE take their time and don't rush it. I know many seem to be uncaring about bugs at release but for a game that has more than a million dollars pleged for it, nah, I wouldn't be uncaring if I encountered game breaking bugs at release.

Also I really hope this means we get to see more isometric/traditional/top-down RPG's from other developers. This shows that there's still a market for such games so I hope all goes well with this project and look forward to seeing how it looks and plays.

I'm not sure if they fixed the game breaking bugs in arcanum, but I do know that some of the guides on gamefaqs will tell you how to avoid them.

[Dutchess]

Anaeme wrote...

A 3D vs 2D conversations is RAGING right now on the kickstarter comments page



http://www.kickstart...ernity/comments

The last 2D game I played was Freddie Fish. After having been spoiled by many great-looking 3D games, I don't think I'll be very tempted to buy a 2D game in 2014.

[Brockololly]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
I can see how people could feel their dollar goes farther (assuming the goals are met).  I think there's a difference because people see this as "WIthotu may chipping in a good amount, I won't get this" whereas even if the game was the same, if it had already been made, there's some level of "eh those costs are sunk." 

Yeah, I find myself often spending more on Kickstarter games lately than on normally released games. Its kind of funny since how these games seem to be sold is that they're simply trying to appeal to a very specific audience to fund them which at least in my case, makes a much better first impression and subsequently results in me wanting to spend more money to fund the games that strike that chord with me.

Maybe thats why I seem to have better reactions to some of these Kickstarter campaigns than other marketing campaigns of bigger retail games. WIth Kickstarter, the developers can appeal to a very specific audience and provide a more open and frank outlook on what they want to do right out of the gate and what they want the game to be. Whereas with many big "AAA" retail type games, the marketing and initial pitch is often trying to appeal not to one core group but rather to as broad a group as possible, and you often get the wishy washy diluted messaging and a frustrating drip feed of information on what is likely a project that is already set in stone. At least with many Kickstarters, even if you have a drip feed of info, as a backer, you might feel more empowered in knowing that the game isn't already necessarily set in stone.

Even take Dragon Age: Origins, back before the Marilyn Manson marketing mess and before it was delayed, I would have gladly paid more than the $50 I paid for it, assuming that extra money given served as an endorsement of BioWare making that type of game. That's basically what Kickstarter allows me to do- vote with my wallet even more than big publishers allow. Kickstarter is really like an inverted Free to Play model in that sense.

scyphozoa wrote...

Yup, traditional publishers have built  themselves an infrastructure that doesn't support low cost/low profit
projects. Traditional publishers have spent the past 10-20 years  deliberately positioning themselves to produce blockbusters. Now, it is  all they can afford to make.

I do wonder where free to play and social games fit in there. Obviously EA is doing a lot with those- how expensive to create are those and on average how profitable are they? The thing with Kickstarter is that its possibly the most risk averse model out there- if you're funded, you're guaranteed a profit. If you're not funded then you haven't spent time and resources making a game that potentially no one wants to play and can retool your pitch.

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 septembre 2012 - 04:09 .

[MerinTB]

Brockololly wrote...
The thing with Kickstarter is that its possibly the most risk averse model out there- if you're funded, you're guaranteed a profit. If you're not funded then you haven't spent time and resources making a game that potentially no one wants to play and can retool your pitch.

Unless you are making Leisure Suit Larry Comes Again, Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective or Dead State, and you've ALREADY been working on a project and turn to Kickstarter to get the funds to finish it.

[legion999]

Damn, I don't whether to get the $140 version or the $250 one. I want the latter but I don't know if I'll have the money to do so.

Also how does Kickstarter work internationally? Will the money I donate be converted?

Modifié par legion999, 16 septembre 2012 - 04:34 .

[RinuCZ]

legion999 wrote...
Also how does Kickstarter work internationally? Will the money I donate be converted?

The payment is done via Amazon Payment US, so it should convert your currency to dollars and add a certain percentage for the transaction.

Modifié par RinuCZ, 16 septembre 2012 - 05:44 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Seriously wondering if I should pick Arcanum up. I played the demo but it was bugged and the official patch only fixes so much I hear. Yet the setting, gameplay and story entice me but I don't want to go through 20 hours only to end up facing game breaking bugs. Or am I wrong and have these bugs been fixed?

I think I've played Arcanum more times fully through than any RPG ever and I've never hit a game breaking bug. The graphics aren't stellar for the era it came out in but the story is great and it really lets you create some highly varied characters that change how the story plays out. Definately worth picking up.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

The least we can expect if 3D:



If it will be 2D I may not be interested easily.



Then it should be more detailed, executable on high resolutions and have no technical issues with different windows and graphic cards.

[Eternal Phoenix]

The first image, what game is that from?

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Seriously wondering if I should pick Arcanum up. I played the demo but it was bugged and the official patch only fixes so much I hear. Yet the setting, gameplay and story entice me but I don't want to go through 20 hours only to end up facing game breaking bugs. Or am I wrong and have these bugs been fixed?

I think I've played Arcanum more times fully through than any RPG ever and I've never hit a game breaking bug. The graphics aren't stellar for the era it came out in but the story is great and it really lets you create some highly varied characters that change how the story plays out. Definately worth picking up.

Well it's not like it's terribly expensive so I might just brave it and pick a copy up and see how that goes. The graphics are okay enough for me so there's no problem there.

(Strangely, I find some games from the past - especially isometric games - very easy on the eyes and I love their artstyles) 

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 16 septembre 2012 - 06:17 .

[Nameless one7]

Some people on the obsidian forums and kickstarter page want it really old school. No Regenerating Health or mana, only heal at safe zones, I hope the game doesn't end up like that.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Nameless one7 wrote...

Some people on the obsidian forums and kickstarter page want it really old school. No Regenerating Health or mana, only heal at safe zones, I hope the game doesn't end up like that.

That isn't exactly old school. There could be a rest function.

Optionally they could do the hardcore mode thingie for those who want really old school elements where you have to eat to survive. That'll be awesome.

[Jozape]

Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote...

The least we can expect if 3D:

That's actually what they mean by 2D. Temple of Elemental Evil uses the same, or a very similar rendering method to the Infinity Engine and adds real-time 3D characters on top of that. That's what Obsidian intends to do in Project Eternity, according to GameBanshee.

[Fast Jimmy]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Seriously wondering if I should pick Arcanum up. I played the demo but it was bugged and the official patch only fixes so much I hear. Yet the setting, gameplay and story entice me but I don't want to go through 20 hours only to end up facing game breaking bugs. Or am I wrong and have these bugs been fixed?

I think I've played Arcanum more times fully through than any RPG ever and I've never hit a game breaking bug. The graphics aren't stellar for the era it came out in but the story is great and it really lets you create some highly varied characters that change how the story plays out. Definately worth picking up.

Arcanum is a blast, I would highly recommend it. Some quests feel VERY unifnished, though, my only complaint. And if ou don't pay attention to the lore, you might not completely understand the ending (or so I've heard, I'm a game lore nut as a general rule). But, as a game, it is great. 

If Project Eternity has a world as deep as Arcanum and the amount of options and depth, it would be a worthwhile purchase, hands down. 

[Jozape]

Nameless one7 wrote...

Some people on the obsidian forums and kickstarter page want it really old school. No Regenerating Health or mana, only heal at safe zones, I hope the game doesn't end up like that.

Only heal at safe zones? I don't know about that, but regenerating health would be silly(without a good in-game reason, of course).

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

[Nameless one7]

Jozape wrote...

Nameless one7 wrote...

Some people on the obsidian forums and kickstarter page want it really old school. No Regenerating Health or mana, only heal at safe zones, I hope the game doesn't end up like that.

Only heal at safe zones? I don't know about that, but regenerating health would be silly(without a good in-game reason, of course).

My only concern is having to travel a long way just to heal and replenish mana, that kind of thing just adds a lot of time having to travel which is a waste of time.

[Fast Jimmy]

Jozape wrote...

Nameless one7 wrote...

Some people on the obsidian forums and kickstarter page want it really old school. No Regenerating Health or mana, only heal at safe zones, I hope the game doesn't end up like that.

Only heal at safe zones? I don't know about that, but regenerating health would be silly(without a good in-game reason, of course).

Regnerating health? Silly?

...you do realize you are on a Bioware forum, right? 

[Jozape]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Jozape wrote...

Nameless one7 wrote...

Some people on the obsidian forums and kickstarter page want it really old school. No Regenerating Health or mana, only heal at safe zones, I hope the game doesn't end up like that.

Only heal at safe zones? I don't know about that, but regenerating health would be silly(without a good in-game reason, of course).

Regnerating health? Silly?

...you do realize you are on a Bioware forum, right? 

Pffft, they didn't always have regenerating health in their older titles!