1774 réponses à ce sujet

[Eurypterid]

In Exile wrote...

Here's a question for the uninitiated (i.e., me). Since the parallel here is to PS:T and BG2, is it right to say that the story/companion approach is to have the PC + actual companions as opposed to IWD's create-your-own party?

It's like BG2. You create your character, and you can pick up companions along the way. Maximum of 6 characters (including yours) in the party at one time.

[Yrkoon]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

In other words, you want a game based on the spirit of modern RPGs. That's fine, but that's not what PE is about, and even if some publisher were to approach Obsidian and hand them a $50 Million check and say: here you go. no strings attached, they STILL wouldn't turn PE into a DA:O clone.... because that's not the point of the game!

Project Eternity is being designed to recreate the magic of the old IE games. Nostalgia IS a major, and deliberate element here. And Personally I wouldn't have bothered donating a single penny if they had announced PE as the Next hot and sexy evolutionary big thing.

To be fair, nostalgia is a driving factor in providing motivation for people to contribute the kickstarter.  For all we know they have had other ideas as well, it's just that the Infinity Engine style of game doesn't restrict the goals they have for the game, while appealing to those that want a game more like the older games.

Upon further contemplation  (and   after reading your post), Nostalgia probably wasn't the best word to use  here...  How about  "old style rpg feel"?

Because that's the overall vibe  that emenates  from reading Obsidian's updates (even the ones where Sawyer is describing this  bizzare, unique world with fractured souls and dwarven rangers.)

It's also the vibe coming from all the discussion on the PE forum, and the comments section on kickstarter.  Just about every post/comment cites  stuff from those old games.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 septembre 2012 - 05:44 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I think nostalgia is still the right word. I mean, they could have gone old school in the sense of maybe, Ultima VII or something hehe. Many see the 1998 period as a sort of Golden Age and certainly a resurgence in the PC RPG genre, so appealing to that type of game is going to have some degree of followers.

Stating taht they were going to make Alkabeth again might not have garnered quite the support haha.


As for Sawyer's Updates, I do think that some of the similarities to Black Hound isn't an accident.  He's (presumably) wanted to make something like that for probably the better part of a decade.  The team is going to run with ideas they find exciting.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 24 septembre 2012 - 05:55 .

[Yrkoon]

EntropicAngel wrote...
On update 7, I like the second to last bullet point. Sounds very interesting. However, the last one worries me a little. I like the idea of XP being NOT tied to how many mooks you kill, but it makes me worry that it will be like ME2, though that's probably silly of me.

Yeah, there's quite a bit of  really decent discussion on the Obsidian forums about that.  Our own Silvius the Mad did a thread there  voicing this exact concern.

XP will be awarded for  completing quest objectives.    This of course,  still totally   leaves open the possiblity of getting xp for killing stuff.   For example,  if you get a quest to go kill some wolves, I'm sure you'll be getting xp for...you know.... killing wolves.  And of course, if you get a quest to  "go from point A to  point B", and you decide to fight your way to  point B,  you'll be getting XP, just like if you sneaked your way to point B 

All this system does is eliminate  the toxic Disease  of  "Grinding = Win"  that has infested RPG gaming over the past decade.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 septembre 2012 - 06:11 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I liken it to being similar to the first Deus Ex or Bloodlines (especially since Cain developed Bloodlines)

[Yrkoon]

I have a gut feeling it's gonna be exactly like Vampire: Bloodlines.

What's gonna be interesting is if it pisses people off because of how UNLIKE the BG series it's going to be. We munchkins always killed Drizzt in BG1, because, you know...12,000 xp! (and his shiny scimitars of course, but this game is gonna have crafting, unlike BG1, so no loss there)

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 septembre 2012 - 06:34 .

[Cyberarmy]

Bloodlines and maybe some Lionheart style XP( sneaking around monsters giving %80 of their XP potantial)

And for kiiling part i think there should be XP bonuses for kiiling rare/powerfull enemies and some minor XP when you kill a kind of enemy at first time. After killing a number of that kind of enemies you stop gaining XP from them.
It is silly to get same amount of xp after killing 500 generic goblins.

[Dominus]

And as for combat, I think there should be XP bonuses for kiiling rare/powerfull enemies as well as some minor XP when you kill a kind of enemy for the first time. After killing a number of that kind of enemies you stop gaining XP from them. It is silly to get same amount of xp after killing 500 generic goblins.

Something similar to this. I get why VtmB ripped out traditional XP gain, but that'd be a nice touch to have specific boss fights or rare 'hidden' creatures handing out experience for your trouble. It's a topic that's been debated for years, I'd assume.

[Addai]

Cimeas wrote...
I don't really want to play an RPG without any voice acting or without an optional 3rd person perspective in 2012 (or 2014 as the case may be). I feel that with a bit more creativity and the willingness to learn from more recent RPGs instead of discarding them entirely and going back to 1997, the Obsidian team could build something special, rather than a budget rehash of a 1990s Infinity engine game.

Essentially, something like DA:O but with a better story, the logical evolution of PS:T and BG2.

Haven't you been listening to what the developers are saying?  They could do this, but they don't want to.  Because they say they're tired of being limited by the expectations of cross-platform "modern" RPGs.

[Eurypterid]

Cimeas wrote...
I don't really want to play an RPG without any voice acting or without an optional 3rd person perspective in 2012 (or 2014 as the case may be). I feel that with a bit more creativity and the willingness to learn from more recent RPGs instead of discarding them entirely and going back to 1997, the Obsidian team could build something special, rather than a budget rehash of a 1990s Infinity engine game.

Actually, this is exactly what I want and the reason I pledged the amount I did. I believe it's the same for most of the other people that have pledged money. The 'budget rehash' is what many of us have been wanting to see in an RPG for a long time. I'm glad Obsidian isn't going to offer just another modern style RPG. Sure, it's nostalgia talking, but there's a reason for the nostalgia. I'm happy to see this kickstarter is going to cater to it.

[Cimeas]

But there was a reason they stopped making those games. There was a reason Bioware moved onto KOTOR and Jade Empire and Mass Effect (AND NOTE; this was all before the EA takeover). They, the people who built some of the best games with the infinity engine, thought they could do better. They believed, and still believe that if you can SEE it onscreen, in a cutscene or outside of one, it is a better game.

Compare


to




THAT, dear friends, is the difference between the modern RPG, and the old one.

Modifié par Cimeas, 24 septembre 2012 - 04:50 .

[Eurypterid]

Cimeas wrote...

But there was a reason they stopped making those games. There was a reason Bioware moved onto KOTOR and Jade Empire and Mass Effect (AND NOTE; this was all before the EA takeover). They, the people who built some of the best games with the infinity engine, thought they could do better. They believed, and still believe that if you can SEE it onscreen, in a cutscene or outside of one, it is a better game.

Compare


to




THAT, dear friends, is the difference between the modern RPG, and the old one.

You can provide examples all day of how the newer way is better, but the fact is, the Obsidian devs decided they wanted to try to make an old style game. I personally don't want what you showed in the second video for this project. I like the charm, design, art, gameplay, and atmosphere of the old IE games (that's part of the reason I replay them over and over again).

You point out it was the devs who decided they could 'do better'. Well in this case, it was also the devs that decided they liked the old style better. And the kickstarter pledgers responded in a resoundingly positive way. No one's saying this is going to be a blockbuster hit or a AAA release. It's definitely catering to a niche taste (although that niche may prove to be larger than expected).

If you don't like what this kickstarter is shaping up to be, then don't pledge any money towards it. I guess I don't understand why you're arguing that 'the new way is better'. Obsidian was pretty clear from the outset that's not the kind of game they're making. And it's not what the backers for this project want.

[Leinadi]

http://i55.tinypic.com/25stp40.jpg

I love the new RPGs!

Modifié par Leinadi, 24 septembre 2012 - 06:11 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

About XP, NWN and Fallout are the best paradigms for a good system. Also set the maximum level at 100. I hate it when I reach the maximum XP and level, after that I avoid anything and finish the game as soon as possible.

[Korusus]

Cimeas wrote...

But there was a reason they stopped making those games. There was a reason Bioware moved onto KOTOR and Jade Empire and Mass Effect (AND NOTE; this was all before the EA takeover). They, the people who built some of the best games with the infinity engine, thought they could do better. They believed, and still believe that if you can SEE it onscreen, in a cutscene or outside of one, it is a better game.
 

I prefer to take them at face value.  Even BioWare has been very adament about the restrictions publishers put on the industry in regards to what can and cannot be made based on what is perceived to be profitable.  I still remember seeing David Gaider's posts in the years that Dragon Age was still vaporware discussing about just how a game like Baldur's Gate 2 was too big for modern standards. Just look at the amount of content in Dragon Age: Origins...barely a percentage of the content in Baldur's Gate 2, and that's even with DA:O being the longest most-content-filled cRPG developed by BioWare in the last decade.

It's not "better" , it's "different".  You sacrifice player agency and content for flashy cinematics.  It's a different approach, BioWare just evolved with the limits placed on them by publishers.

It's the big publishers that have destroyed this industry and it's no accident that they all are facing oblivion.

IIDovahChiiefII wrote...

Because of the bugs, i wont be giving any money.tied of broken games and i dont trust kickstarter really

Kickstarter is just a platform, all the billing is handled by Amazon and Obsidian (or whomever).  Kickstarter just gets a very small percentage of the proceeds.

As for Obsidian games being buggy...could care less.  They've made some of the greatest games I've ever played, within the boundaries dictated to them by unfriendly publishers.  I'm fine with it.  Their reputation for that is undeserved and its unfortunate that this big lie gets spread around so much by misinformed folks.  Mask of the Betrayer has a better story than the last 6 BioWare games put together.  And I say that as a fan of BioWare's stories.

Modifié par Korusus, 24 septembre 2012 - 07:09 .

[Beerfish]

Korusus wrote...

.  Mask of the Betrayer has a better story than the last 6 BioWare games put together.  And I say that as a fan of BioWare's stories.

It also had one of the very worst game mechanics ever stuck into a comptuer game which almost ruined the experience for many.  You can't just excuse their foibles as being 'the publishers fault' and take BioWare to task for any of the problems of their games without bringing that up.

[FedericoV]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

As for Sawyer's Updates, I do think that some of the similarities to Black Hound isn't an accident.  He's (presumably) wanted to make something like that for probably the better part of a decade.  The team is going to run with ideas they find exciting.

As I noted previously, the hook of the story is very similar to the Black Hound one. Don't know about the rest of the game but I remember that Sawyer was doing a NWN2's mod based on his BG3 storyline so maybe he has developed the story even more during the last years and he is using it for PE.

[Allan Schumacher]

@Beerfish Are you referring to the Spirit feeding mechanic (I enjoyed it)

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 24 septembre 2012 - 07:43 .

[FedericoV]

Cimeas wrote...

THAT, dear friends, is the difference between the modern RPG, and the old one.

So, the difference is that modern RPG are about cutscene? That's an improvement? Give me Ultima IV anytime then.

There are many good things about modern RPGs. But them becoming interactive movies is not one of them imho.

Modifié par FedericoV, 24 septembre 2012 - 07:50 .

[upsettingshorts]

Newer BioWare games are better for BioWare. That is no reason why games in their older style should not exist, or even flourish. Why is there even an argument about this?

[Beerfish]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

@Beerfish Are you referring to the Spirit feeding mechanic (I enjoyed it)

Yes indeed I am.  You could get to a point especially with a mage as I recall where you are essentially totally screwed.  I had to make choices my character did not want to make just to keep me going. 

[Taleroth]

I got to eat a god. How many games can you say that about?

[Leinadi]

I loved the Spirit Eater mechanic. I think my only problem was that you could completely trivialize it if you played a goodie-two-shoes (through Supressing) which was a bit weird to me.

[Chromie]

So has Obsidian revealed the surprised for today? Been wondering what it could be all day at work.