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Project Eternity


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#51
Allan Schumacher

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Skelter192 wrote...
I believe Lucas Arts gave them originally a longer schedule and then suddenly Obsidian is forced into a holiday release. 

Chris only ever said this on the matter (could be wrong) "In the end, I do wish there had been more time and I wished I had had more time to work on the end game,"


I don't know the full details, but having the time be actively removed seems very unusual.

Curious what would have motivated that.


Though your quote from Chris just indicates that he'd liked to have had more time, which is more just a statement of the obvious (given the state of the ending) rather than actual proof.

I doubt there's any sort of evidence that would indicate, definitively, that the production schedule had time removed from it.  I imagine there'd be a contractual nightmare if that was the case.

#52
Allan Schumacher

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The city is definitely more interesting.

I actually grow weary of how combat heavy RPGs are, and greatly prefer non-combat situations. I'm sure much combat will come from the second city, but at least it'll break it up somewhat.

#53
Allan Schumacher

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Now the jaded cynic in me does recognize that it's going to happen where some of the kickstarter games run into financing/scheduling issues.

I don't think a cash call Kickstarter will go over well. Do you think some of these companies could reign in some stretch goals with minimal backlash, or would that be too risky too? Presumably the idea is that each milestone has additional cushion to account for uncertainty, but eh... game design can be like that :P

I hear from the Double Fine documentary that preventing scope creep and coming up with creative solutions to problems seems to be pretty important.

#54
Allan Schumacher

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It's as much a reflection of the advantages of digital distribution and the internet.

I have been sort of waiting for this to come to fruition (it took longer than I had hoped), but really the idea is that as long as there are niches that want a particular game, there's less and less barrier to entry.

The big hurdle is the upfront cost in order to ensure it isn't a straight up "indie style" game, but crowd sourcing seems like an interesting solution.

#55
Allan Schumacher

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But is there any reason why a traditional publisher like EA or Ubisoft or Activision would turn down the possibility of funding a decidedly smaller scale budget game like Project Eternity? That's what confuses me- the demand has always been there for these types of games yet big publishers stopped making them alltogether. Is it just because those bigger publishers only want super huge budget games that can potentially be "blockbusters" and don't want to waste time with smaller budget games (unless they're F2P or Facebook type games)?


Opportunity cost is the big one.

For starters, due to kickstarter ironically the game can be a complete success if the only people satisfied are those that contributed. If this is achieved, with zero sales the game could still be considered a success. Ideally Obsidian turns a nice profit and never needs to make a kickstarter again. Super ideally the game is a runaway success and makes big publishers take notice.


But opportunity cost is the biggest one. Lets say Obsidian makes $10 million in profit for this (which would be huge ROI, over 200%, but really only needs to sell maybe 150k units or so to achieve this so maybe isn't not that big of a stretch, especially if its highly regarded)

I think this would be considered "insane success for Obsidian" and probably even well enough for big publishers to take notice.

Now lets take the latest grand poombah, Modern Warfare 4 had $775m in sales in 5 days. Even if we peg the development costs at $100 million (which is probably high), and lets assume that the developer only gets half of the sales. $287.5 million in profit is still better ROI, and much, much higher in real dollars.

So you get into issues with economies of scale. In order to try to match the real dollar value, does a publisher then fund $100 million in small developments? Lets put Project Eternity at $4 million. Do you still see the same return on investment (that is, would each of them make $10 million in profit) if you were suddenly developing 25 Project Eternity games? Will there be some level of self-competition that would undermine sales at all?

You could do 25 games that don't directly compete with one another, but there will still be competition amongst yourselves for retail shelf space that will never go away, and I just don't know what sort of costs may be incurred for the level of bureaucratic support, and whether the losses there would compare to potential gains for not using larger teams focused on less products.


Then you get some games like World of Warcraft that will bring in probably close to 4 times Obsidian's Kickstarter every month alone.

#56
Allan Schumacher

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Ok, it sounds right. Just one objection: it's clear that for any MW or WoW that has high ROI, there are plenty of other games who flop while costing millions of dollars. Games who are considered failure even if they sell a lot of copies (like LA Noire).


Thing is, a game like Planescape: Torment turned a profit (Feargus' words), but still wasn't considered a financial success either.

ROI and total dollars are still important


(It's important to note I'm looking at this purely from a business perspective.  Such things will apply across many/all businesses, not just game developers).


Basically, what I'm saying, is that running behind the few super hits,
transforms game development in a lottery (not to mentions the fact that
it kills game development on a creative level).


I do agree that the games industry is stagnant from a big business perspective.  Which is why I'm a huge fan of digital distribution and even things like kickstarter.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 16 octobre 2012 - 09:03 .


#57
Allan Schumacher

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Is it new backers or people upping their pledges?

#58
Allan Schumacher

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Oh yes, this is the preorder to end all preorders. Patience will be tested :)

#59
Allan Schumacher

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In general I have no real beef with Microsoft's TRC. It basically exists to try to prevent completely broken and awful games from being released (this was a huge issue for the original Atari).

They also tend to be pretty detailed and consistent in their interpretations and frankly it's useful for us to have their checklist of the types of things they'll be checking for.

Some of it can be a bit bizarre (we have to test for THAT sequence of steps!?) but I think this helps contribute to console releases often being a bit more stable as well. At least in terms of fatal issues.

#60
Allan Schumacher

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Discussion taken offline.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 24 octobre 2012 - 06:34 .


#61
Allan Schumacher

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Yes. I am a contributor to Project Eternity. Obsidian is one of my favourite developers.

#62
Allan Schumacher

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Enjoyed Josh's video.

I liked the "Well you funded a really big game..................crap!" type of vibe for how much work needs to be done lol.

#63
Allan Schumacher

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99DP1982 wrote...

Well, Josh's face told everything...

"I went to a logistics meeting and then went OH CRAP! - we have to deliver so much" :D

I assume that it will require a lot of drinking to saturate creative minds for the story and a lot of lashing for the art guys to complete all those big cities and dungeon to be unique and aesthetically appealing ;)



It'll be a big issue on design as well.  That's probably where it will be the biggest issue IMO, since it'll be the area that needs a lot of iteration to prevent bugs.

#64
Allan Schumacher

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Note: I have shifted off topic discussion to PMs.


As a general note: use this thread to champion Project Eternity and Obsidian and how you're looking forward to it. Using it to illustrate how BioWare is completely screwing the pooch, or to substantiate the ire towards BioWare and our decisions for DA3 is not acceptable in this thread.

#65
Allan Schumacher

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Seeing Durlag's Tower reminds me:

What do people think about traps? In general I don't find them that interesting in the IE games, though admittedly the last time I played the IE games my perspectives on what I wanted out of an RPG have shifted.

#66
Allan Schumacher

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I didn't mind them in a game like Fallout New Vegas though, since their placement was usually context appropriate.

Though that didn't stop me from having to deal with save scumming urges! <.<

#67
Allan Schumacher

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Adventuring and dungeon crawling = traps... It's been so long the part of the experience.... I mean, can you for example imagine an Idiana Jones movie without traps?


I agree, but at the same time is the way that IE did them the best way of presenting them? I did find them a lot more interesting in FONV.


EDIT: I agree with your follow ups that there are ways to make traps better.  Hopefully Obsidian does (since I assume traps will be in).

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 24 octobre 2012 - 08:49 .


#68
Allan Schumacher

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Yrkoon wrote...
They're not supposed to be "interesting" per se.  They're supposed to be mechanics/tools to make you slow down and fear death with every step, and to project the vibe that you're not supposed to be in here, and that there's no such thing as an easy path to that giant treasure-filled chest.    And in Durlag's tower, they were even more than that.  They were  plot devices.  They represented  Durlag's paranoia.

Since the IE games, however, traps have been watered down and diluted to the point where their only function is to serve as speed bumps in a corridor.



I don't know, I still got that message from FONV (more on the mind since I played it recently) in that traps were often punitive (crippled limb if not outright death) and they were done in a way that I found myself constantly looking for them while playing the game, especially in caves or ostensibly hostile areas.  Although the threat is always mitigated unless there's an ironman mode (which PE will have), since a trap that obliterates my party in BG1 results in me reloading the game and using my metaknowledge to proceed.

I wonder if it's a player skill vs. character skill issue for me.  One thing I did not like at all was knowing there's a trap there, and with the heartbeat timer of Baldur's Gate, sitting there waiting for my character to actually detect said trap before moving on.  Whereas recognizing that there's a bear trap in the water makes me, the game player, feel like I am playing the game well.

It's also possible that I like New Vegas' traps more because of the setting, where a trap isn't just a lightning bolt materializing, but a land mine or a grenade bouquet which gave the impression of an improvization, so in that sense I'm innately more biased to New Vegas perhaps because I just enjoy that setting and how traps relate to it more.

#69
Allan Schumacher

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People may hate it but that sequence had some hilarious The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly references

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 24 octobre 2012 - 11:41 .


#70
Allan Schumacher

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

People may hate it but that sequence had some hilarious The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly references


Hate The Good, The Bad and The Ugly?

Who are these people? Where can they be found? They need to be helped!



There are people that feel pop culture references in games shouldn't exist.  I find them entertaining.  To each his own.

#71
Allan Schumacher

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My favourite easter egg in TOB was the adventuring party that saves/loads when trying to defeat you.

#72
Allan Schumacher

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bussinrounds wrote...

Part 2 of Sawyer's interview on Matt Chat -www.youtube.com/watch

 It's good hearing that he has such a solid D&D backround.  Inspires confidence concerning Project Eternity's RPG mechanics and such.


Sawyer strikes me as a real mechanics guru (although I remember the outrage when he decided to combine throwing with hand to hand in Van Buren).  D&D or otherwise, his systems seem pretty tight IMO.

#73
Allan Schumacher

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Fortunately my room was pressurized.