1774 réponses à ce sujet

[Eurypterid]

Skelter192 wrote...

So has Obsidian revealed the surprised for today? Been wondering what it could be all day at work.

Nothing yet. It's only 2:30 PM here on the west cost though. Still lots of time.

[Jozape]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

@Beerfish Are you referring to the Spirit feeding mechanic (I enjoyed it)

Me too. I would have been disappointed if the spirit eater curse was any less distasteful to the character. Something with such a bad reputation has got to be bad!

Skelter192 wrote...

So has Obsidian revealed the surprised for today? Been wondering what it could be all day at work.

 

No update yet. This might interest Mac users that want a DRM free version though:

Obsidian ‏@Obsidian Crossing fingers! RT "@Laefor 18th of October - conference by CD Projekt about GOG, [...] "Apple users should be interested in it" ;-)"

Modifié par Jozape, 24 septembre 2012 - 09:29 .

[FutharkTomahawk]

Beerfish wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

@Beerfish Are you referring to the Spirit feeding mechanic (I enjoyed it)

Yes indeed I am.  You could get to a point especially with a mage as I recall where you are essentially totally screwed.  I had to make choices my character did not want to make just to keep me going. 

NWN2 did tend to force you towards either LG or CE, that spirit eating business going right along with the whole 'binary solution set' approach of metering your behavior.  That's something I'd like to avoid in Project: Eternity.

[NKKKK]

Eurypterid wrote...

Cimeas wrote...

But there was a reason they stopped making those games. There was a reason Bioware moved onto KOTOR and Jade Empire and Mass Effect (AND NOTE; this was all before the EA takeover). They, the people who built some of the best games with the infinity engine, thought they could do better. They believed, and still believe that if you can SEE it onscreen, in a cutscene or outside of one, it is a better game.

Compare


to




THAT, dear friends, is the difference between the modern RPG, and the old one.

You can provide examples all day of how the newer way is better, but the fact is, the Obsidian devs decided they wanted to try to make an old style game. I personally don't want what you showed in the second video for this project. I like the charm, design, art, gameplay, and atmosphere of the old IE games (that's part of the reason I replay them over and over again).

You point out it was the devs who decided they could 'do better'. Well in this case, it was also the devs that decided they liked the old style better. And the kickstarter pledgers responded in a resoundingly positive way. No one's saying this is going to be a blockbuster hit or a AAA release. It's definitely catering to a niche taste (although that niche may prove to be larger than expected).

If you don't like what this kickstarter is shaping up to be, then don't pledge any money towards it. I guess I don't understand why you're arguing that 'the new way is better'. Obsidian was pretty clear from the outset that's not the kind of game they're making. And it's not what the backers for this project want.

Don't argue with him bro.

[FutharkTomahawk]

Eurypterid wrote...

This is the reason that Obsidian went the kickstarter route in the first place. Because there seemingly just isn't a big enough market for this type of game for publishers to be interested. Now, after the game is released, perhaps the sales numbers will be much larger and then one could argue the case that a game of this type is something publishers would find worthwhile investing in. But that remains to be seen.

When the [bleep] did the publishers jettison their common sense, anyway?  When did it become mandatory that games sell no less than 6 million copies for them to be considered a worthwhile investment on their part?

Just a rhetorical rant--not really expecting answers. 

Modifié par FutharkTomahawk, 24 septembre 2012 - 10:23 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Beerfish wrote...
Yes indeed I am.  You could get to a point especially with a mage as I recall where you are essentially totally screwed.  I had to make choices my character did not want to make just to keep me going. 

That's actually what I liked about it haha.

[Xewaka]

FutharkTomahawk wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...
This is the reason that Obsidian went the kickstarter route in the first place. Because there seemingly just isn't a big enough market for this type of game for publishers to be interested. Now, after the game is released, perhaps the sales numbers will be much larger and then one could argue the case that a game of this type is something publishers would find worthwhile investing in. But that remains to be seen.

When the [bleep] did the publishers jettison their common sense, anyway?  When did it become mandatory that games sell no less than 6 million copies for them to be considered a worthwhile investment on their part?
Just a rhetorical rant--not really expecting answers. 

When the cost of making games went from $1mil to $20mil (marketing not included) without a price increase in the US market in the last 20 years .

[MerinTB]

Xewaka wrote...

FutharkTomahawk wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...
This is the reason that Obsidian went the kickstarter route in the first place. Because there seemingly just isn't a big enough market for this type of game for publishers to be interested. Now, after the game is released, perhaps the sales numbers will be much larger and then one could argue the case that a game of this type is something publishers would find worthwhile investing in. But that remains to be seen.

When the [bleep] did the publishers jettison their common sense, anyway?  When did it become mandatory that games sell no less than 6 million copies for them to be considered a worthwhile investment on their part?
Just a rhetorical rant--not really expecting answers. 

When the cost of making games went from $1mil to $20mil (marketing not included) without a price increase in the US market in the last 20 years .

Pretty much.

Movie tickets should probably be twice what they cost, and most AAA games should cost nearly twice what they do.

They've kinda backed themselves into a corner with how much it costs to make games.  At least movies can be AAA and not cost as much.

[Leinadi]

The costs are really ridiculous though. I have no doubt that you would be able to seriously bring down costs of even the big AAA games if there were just competent people in charge and less people whose job is to oversee just what that other guy is doing and so on and so forth. There is so much... *crap* that just takes up a lot of money and it's quite frankly disgusting to see how much money can get squandered.

And it's the same in the movie business as well. A great director of movies, who knows what he wants and knows how to achieve it, will bring down the cost of producing a film by a lot. A lot of the times, it is when the suits, in an effort to bring *down* costs, take over too much of a job they don't really understand, where the costs will start to *rise*. And same in other businesses as well (even ones not related to entertainment).

Modifié par Leinadi, 24 septembre 2012 - 11:06 .

[Yrkoon]

Beerfish wrote...

Korusus wrote...

.  Mask of the Betrayer has a better story than the last 6 BioWare games put together.  And I say that as a fan of BioWare's stories.

It also had one of the very worst game mechanics ever stuck into a comptuer game which almost ruined the experience for many. 

If you're talking about the Spirit eater meter, then my gosh, I couldn't disagree with you more.  It's the implementation of an addiction mechanic!  What's not to love?

[NKKKK]

Update released,



The new 2.2 stretch goal is translations, but more importantly, Avelon will release a novella with to the some of the lower tiers.

Modifié par NKKKK, 25 septembre 2012 - 01:40 .

[chunkyman]

NKKKK wrote...

Edair pic

Love it. Besides looking good, I'm glad he doesn't look like an anime character with ridiculous spikey armor or a 300 pound sword.

Stretch goal is... meh. Don't care about translations.

Modifié par chunkyman, 25 septembre 2012 - 01:52 .

[Brockololly]

chunkyman wrote...
Stretch goal is... meh. Don't care about translations.

It hopefully gets more people to pledge money though

[NKKKK]

chunkyman wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

Edair pic

Love it. Besides looking good, I'm glad he doesn't look like an anime character with ridiculous spikey armor or a 300 pound sword.

Stretch goal is... meh. Don't care about translations.

WHY WHOEVER COULD YOU BE IMPLYING?

[Gatt9]

Leinadi wrote...

The costs are really ridiculous though. I have no doubt that you would be able to seriously bring down costs of even the big AAA games if there were just competent people in charge and less people whose job is to oversee just what that other guy is doing and so on and so forth. There is so much... *crap* that just takes up a lot of money and it's quite frankly disgusting to see how much money can get squandered.

And it's the same in the movie business as well. A great director of movies, who knows what he wants and knows how to achieve it, will bring down the cost of producing a film by a lot. A lot of the times, it is when the suits, in an effort to bring *down* costs, take over too much of a job they don't really understand, where the costs will start to *rise*. And same in other businesses as well (even ones not related to entertainment).

That's pretty much it.  The problem isn't that game development is so much more expensive,  the problem is that Publishers don't have good business people and keep adding excessive overhead that doesn't actually contribute work to the game.  Brian Fargo once said the Publisher alone adds 25%-30% to the cost of the game.

I can't really add much else,  you said it perfectly.

But there was a reason they stopped making those games. There was a reason Bioware moved onto KOTOR and Jade Empire and Mass Effect (AND NOTE; this was all before the EA takeover). They, the people who built some of the best games with the infinity engine, thought they could do better. They believed, and still believe that if you can SEE it onscreen, in a cutscene or outside of one, it is a better game.

Compare


to




THAT, dear friends, is the difference between the modern RPG, and the old one.

Actually,  you're completely off target.

The reason why they changed things was because the market started shifting to cater to the <18 crowd who pretty continuously complained if they had to read anything in a video game,  the same crowd who complained about RPG mechanics like armor class,  to hit rolls,  and pretty much everything else.

The problem is,  that crowd accounts for ~15% of the market (2011's numbers before they decided anyone who downloaded Angry Birds is a gamer).  The average gamer is 37.  So,  we can do a little math...

50% - 15% = 35%
35%/(37 - 18) = 1.84~
1.84 * (25 - 18) = 12.88
15% + 12.88% = 27.88%

So 100% of the market is being dictated by 27.88% of the customers,  and yet no one in the Game Industry can figure out why they can't sell games. 

Back on topic,  so the reason they made the change was because a relatively small portion of the market can't stand having to read something.  Generally speaking,  it's a bad idea to design your product around a group of people who refuse to engage in a necessary life skill. 

You can see it all over this board,  especially the Dragon Age 2 and Dragon Age 3 boards.

Regardless,  the majority of Earth's population isn't going to agree that discarding reading simply because someone doesn't think they should have to read is a good idea.

[NKKKK]

Is that seriously why western RPG's moved that way...Wow Bioware.

Also, Edair seems like a cool guy...and then I saw that whip.

Modifié par NKKKK, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:46 .

[Laser Beam]

Gatt9 wrote...

So 100% of the market is being dictated by 27.88% of the customers,  and yet no one in the Game Industry can figure out why they can't sell games. 

Back on topic,  so the reason they made the change was because a relatively small portion of the market can't stand having to read something.  Generally speaking,  it's a bad idea to design your product around a group of people who refuse to engage in a necessary life skill. 

You can see it all over this board,  especially the Dragon Age 2 and Dragon Age 3 boards.

Regardless,  the majority of Earth's population isn't going to agree that discarding reading simply because someone doesn't think they should have to read is a good idea.

This. Exactly. Which is why the Gaming Industry pisses me off so much and only reinforces the navitey of business that they operate on. It's a market with a lot of room to grow.

[Addai]

Gatt9 wrote...
Generally speaking,  it's a bad idea to design your product around a group of people who refuse to engage in a necessary life skill. 

ROFL

[NKKKK]

After all, button smashing makes awesome things happen.

Anywho,

Why is Edair carrying a whip, is he a slave driver?

Modifié par NKKKK, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:50 .

[Chromie]

Xewaka wrote...

FutharkTomahawk wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...
This is the reason that Obsidian went the kickstarter route in the first place. Because there seemingly just isn't a big enough market for this type of game for publishers to be interested. Now, after the game is released, perhaps the sales numbers will be much larger and then one could argue the case that a game of this type is something publishers would find worthwhile investing in. But that remains to be seen.

When the [bleep] did the publishers jettison their common sense, anyway?  When did it become mandatory that games sell no less than 6 million copies for them to be considered a worthwhile investment on their part?
Just a rhetorical rant--not really expecting answers. 

When the cost of making games went from $1mil to $20mil (marketing not included) without a price increase in the US market in the last 20 years .

Sure development costs have risen but has spent obscene amounts of money on just marketing.   Billions? I don't think this helps at all.

Modifié par Skelter192, 25 septembre 2012 - 07:07 .

[Yrkoon]

NKKKK wrote...
Why is Edair carrying a whip, is he a slave driver?

  Fact: He's part of an Indiana Jones subquest.  There's a Temple of Doom in PE that you need to have him in your party to complete. 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 septembre 2012 - 05:40 .

[Yrkoon]

Gatt9 wrote...
Back on topic,  so the reason they made the change was because a relatively small portion of the market can't stand having to read something.  Generally speaking,  it's a bad idea to design your product around a group of people who refuse to engage in a necessary life skill. 

LOL!

I'm fairly certain, though,  that the <18 crowd  doesn't have the lock on the  "I don't feel like reading when playing games" personality flaw, unfortunately.  They Can't.  Because the  biggest selling  video games  have always been  relatively  text-free.

And  before we  all  get too carried away with the so-called  "radical change" that has occured in the industry, lets remember that even 10 years ago, text-heavy games were low selling niche-products.   Planescape: Torment is 6 novels worth of awesome on your computer screen...yet it was a financial dud, selling less than 400,000 copies.. despite coming out during the peak of the RPG renaissance era.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 septembre 2012 - 06:12 .

[Cyberarmy]

NKKKK wrote...

After all, button smashing makes awesome things happen.

Anywho,

Why is Edair carrying a whip, is he a slave driver?

He is either Dr.Jones type or using whip to cut out magi tongue.
He seems too "goody" to be a slave driver, looks can be deciving tough
Nevertheless im so happy to see a whip in game.(I mean its just art but  i really hope whips are in game!)

Modifié par Cyberarmy, 25 septembre 2012 - 06:02 .

[Yrkoon]

If they're going to put muskets in the game, then I demand whips as well - and the ability to use whips to disarm musket wielding steampunkers.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 septembre 2012 - 06:06 .

[Cimeas]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Beerfish wrote...
Yes indeed I am.  You could get to a point especially with a mage as I recall where you are essentially totally screwed.  I had to make choices my character did not want to make just to keep me going. 

That's actually what I liked about it haha.

DO NOT FEAR.
I hated that mechanic too, but loved the story.  You can disable spirit eating completely.  Yes, turn it off.
Open the console (tilde key in US, upper left apostrophe thing in EU), type in DebugMode 1, then type
rs ka_se_init, then type DebugMode 0.


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