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Project Eternity


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#1376
Sister Goldring

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think I know what's kind of bothering me about some of the stretch goals now.

Admittedly I didn't follow something like WL2 so maybe they did it there too, but it really seems like many of the goals are a direct response to issues that were raised on the forum and whatnot. Like the people all sad and upset that Paladins didn't seem to exist.


It's not a deal breaker for me by any means, but it seems more that the goals are reactive than proactive. Maybe they didn't have as much of an idea so being entirely proactive isn't fair, but I'd hate for Obsidian to feel obligated to be doing things explicitly because a group of fans were simply clamouring for them if it was originally not something that they wanted to do.

I think Obsidian is super creative, and the idea of just bringing back equivalents to the AD&D classes and whatnot is a bit disappointing. I would have, for example, preferred that Paladin just be a subclass of Priest (or even Fighter). I actually liked the idea they had for just 4 bases classes with interesting subclasses, but eh if Obsidian wants to do it this way they are allowed to.

Hopefully it's still the game that Obsidian fully wanted to make before all this started. I'll never know :P



Hi, I was pretty involved with the Kickstarter comments regarding Paladins and would be a part of the clamouring fans you mention. My impression of the conversation is that people who wanted Paladins didn't much care whether they were a subclass or a separate class, they simply wanted to know if they would be able to play this type of character in PE as it is a role they enjoy. The wanted confirmation that there would be some form of reactivity to their choice to play as a Paladin (warrior priest – oathsworn knight) instead of a generic fighter/rogue.

I can't see that there is anything inherently wrong with this particularly as people are doing their best (and parting with substantial sums of money in some cases) to support Obsidian. I don't think they have a vote in how the game is made but I certainly believe they have a right to express an opinion.

I suspect that Obsidian always intended to include a version of Paladins (Cadegund always looked pretty darn Paladin-ish to me) in some form and simply chose to capitalise on the fact that people were keen to include them by making them a stretch goal. This would seem to make good business sense as they need the fans excited and spending money.
 
My impression from following the kickstarter is that Obsidian is making a low-budget game because they want to and we are going to get exactly what they want to make in the end. I’m good with that and I haven’t come across many people who feel differently despite the fact they lobby for features they personally enjoy to be considered.

I just can’t see how throwing the fans a few crumbs along the way does anyone any harm and it builds excitement among the backers.  Image IPB

Modifié par Sister Goldring, 11 octobre 2012 - 01:48 .


#1377
Chromie

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Eurypterid wrote...
Question: a curiosity, Obsidian never thinked with the idea of creating a horror RPG?
Feargus: We have talked a lot about a horror RPG. We were within inches of doing a RPG with White Wolf and then CCP came in and purchased them. :(


What? :blink:

I like CCP and Eve Online is fantastic so I have faith in them doing a good job at creating a WoD MMO but this well blows.

Modifié par Skelter192, 11 octobre 2012 - 02:13 .


#1378
leferd

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Sister Goldring, Bobby Null pretty much stated that Josh Sawyer and Tim Cain had to be convinced to iinclude Paladins. They discussed the other night as to how this class could possibly fit within the game world. As such they agreed to moved way from the DnD archetypes of this class.

Personally, I wouldn't have minded if the holy warrior class is a subset/build of the priest class. My ideal of a paladin would be similar to how The Hospitaler (played by David Thewlis) was portrayed in Kingdom of Heaven (Director's Cut, of course).

#1379
Sister Goldring

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leferd wrote...

Sister Goldring, Bobby Null pretty much stated that Josh Sawyer and Tim Cain had to be convinced to iinclude Paladins. They discussed the other night as to how this class could possibly fit within the game world. As such they agreed to moved way from the DnD archetypes of this class.

Personally, I wouldn't have minded if the holy warrior class is a subset/build of the priest class. My ideal of a paladin would be similar to how The Hospitaler (played by David Thewlis) was portrayed in Kingdom of Heaven (Director's Cut, of course).


I didn't catch that comment, thanks. Image IPB
 
It changes things a bit I agree.  I still absolutely feel that people have the right to express their opinion about things they enjoy but I'm not sure I am comfortable with the idea that Obsidian has changed it's mind about something they had already explicity rejected AND I wanted Paladins.  I hope that when they discussed it they saw a clear role for the class in their world and didn't just cave to fan demands.  It's not a comfortable thought.  Still I can only imagine they know their own business best and it will all work out.  Image IPB

#1380
leferd

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Well to be fair, it looked liked Bobby was a champion/lobbyist for the Paladin class, or at least as the DnD equivelant of the Warlord/Marshal.

#1381
Sister Goldring

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leferd wrote...

Well to be fair, it looked liked Bobby was a champion/lobbyist for the Paladin class, or at least as the DnD equivelant of the Warlord/Marshal.


Image IPB

#1382
wsandista

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Does anyone know how much they've gotten from Paypal? I know it is at least $20,000 since(at the time of post) they have announced that the 2.6mil goal has been reached but only have 2.58mil on Kickstarter.

#1383
Jozape

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wsandista wrote...

Does anyone know how much they've gotten from Paypal? I know it is at least $20,000 since(at the time of post) they have announced that the 2.6mil goal has been reached but only have 2.58mil on Kickstarter.


The last update from Feargus was 41k.

#1384
Serillen

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Skelter192 wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...
Question: a curiosity, Obsidian never thinked with the idea of creating a horror RPG?
Feargus: We have talked a lot about a horror RPG. We were within inches of doing a RPG with White Wolf and then CCP came in and purchased them. :(


What? :blink:

I like CCP and Eve Online is fantastic so I have faith in them doing a good job at creating a WoD MMO but this well blows.


I totally thought that too heh. Obsidian doing a WoD RPG would've been great.

#1385
chunkyman

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Excited about Josh Sawyer's update tomorrow, I've been craving more lore info.

#1386
Cyberarmy

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We hit 2,6 millions :) Adventurer's Hall is in.

I can happily make my own Ripper Squads and Thieves Guilds now

#1387
Eurypterid

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Tonight's Q&A:

Feargus: We have been having some problems with the updates and using Amazon for storage. When we edit an update it does something strange and deletes but then adds the image again. Amazon thinks it is deleted and then scheduled it to be deleted. So, we are going to start storing everything on our own stuff.

Question: Hi feargusaurus, give us stronghold and Chinese translation please!
Feargus: I'm not so sure about the Chinese translation. We will see what we can do though, we have been contacted by a couple of Chinese companies.

Question: You've done a great job of fielding questions and many topics have been exhausted or told to hold off questioning for later. So, what information do you want to share with us that we just don't know to ask for at the moment?
Feargus: Good question. I asked a lot about the documentary last night. So, I'll ask something much different tonight. What do you all think is the most important aspect of an RPG?

Question: The most important part is a compelling story
Feargus: What makes a story compelling to you?

Would you all say that for the most part, what really separates an RPG from most other genres is choice? I can choose to develop my character this way or that way. I can choose to participate in the story this way or that way. I can choose to go explore over here or go on a quest over there. I can choose to follow the main story line or go off somewhere else. I must choose how I want to deal with a situation, because he game will react based upon my decision.

Question: Yes thats sure bring it to a point. But for me as soon the Character development shrinks down to much I see it more like Genere X with RPG elements.
Feargus: I agree. I can be a real min-maxer and when I feel the system is just not giving me any return for my time thinking about it - I get a little frustrated.

Question: Personally I've had so many discussions about that subject that I've finally come to the conclusion that what makes a great rpg isn't any one system, but the way all the systems (story, graphics, combat engine/other gameplay) all come together to make an experience... or perhaps a "world to live in" would be a better phrase. So, my answer would be: There is no one most important part.
Feargus: Good point.

Question: Choice is subjective. What i would Like to see os That of if i offened someone alot, That That person isnt going to be happy the rest of the game . Or Like in skyrim That after 10 hours people still dont recognise me.
Feargus: That reactivity is cool as long as it doesn't have the game degenerate too much.

Question: Choice can be in games that are clearly not RPGs. Just like story can. While so many will complain that BioWare has damaged RPGs with cinematics and romances... I really feel that if they did any damage to RPGs it was by helping convince people that a good story and many choices (some pretty false, but that's a different issue) makes a game an RPG.
Feargus: How about what it is all about is really "meaningful choice".

Question: and I mean character and story choices, not just like which weapons to use or such.
Feargus: Gotcha.

Question: I would like to add to your list the freedom to choose how to solve a given problem. For example, to get an item you may bribe it's guard, sneak behind him to steal, or to kill him. Well, an RPG is all about developing your character and to have fun, and that's usually a freedom of choice (much more in Pen and Paper).
Feargus: Tim Cain and Chris Taylor were very behind that concept on Fallout - I'm not sure if it was that game that really started that or something later. But, they made it a point that many parts of the game you needed to be able to Fight, Steal or Talk your way through them. If I remember right it was Stealth Boy, Charisma Boy or Action Boy - maybe that was Combat Boy. Been a long time.

Question: Let me try this. The most important aspect of a role-playing game is the control the player has over his character's development, interactions, and choices in the game. The game story can be simple, or linear, or offer none of the branching choices we've come to expect from most RPG's. The character can be pre-defined for us, or let us only tweak around the edges. The interactions can be very limited. But as long as the player feels like he is making decisions for the character, as long as the game give the player the agency to be able to inhabit the persona of said character and feel like the player can make decisions for the character based on said character's make-up, and the game reacts to and acknowledges the decisions and choices the player made... I think then it is a role-playing gme.
Feargus: Good way of saying it. In the end it is about the perception of what you can do and the impact.

Question: so what's the schedule look like for tomorrow
Feargus: Update will be at 10AM PST - really this time, we talked about it a lot tonight and most of the stuff we need to do for it is already done.

Question: Are you planning on having non-obvious, non-combat usage of spells and other skills for problem solving? For (a bad) example, casting fire to burn off an otherwise unreachable rope. More generally, will combat skills be combat only and non-combat skills non-combat only? I love when you have to think about ways to utilize your abilities like that, both in and out of combat, in an almost adventure game way, but I can also see if it doesn't fit the scope of the game.
Feargus: That is a really good question. I know that we want to include puzzle elements in the levels (fun ones), some of those could involve using spells from time to time. However, we also don't want to have you try to figure out the one time you use this one spell in the whole game - unless we lead you up to it right. So, if we do have spells used in puzzles, we will want to make sure that they are all used often enough (not every four minutes to make it tedious) that it occurs to everyone to use them.

Question: It may be too early in development to answer this, but are there plans for creatures analogous to demons and angels?
Feargus: Josh likes to include themes like that, and the gods, so I there is probably a good chance of things like that.

Question: I wanted to ask if there will be "natural" affinity for magic in some races. Like elves is some roleplaying systems are natural magicians, and some other races can't use magic at all, but also very resistant to it?
Feargus: Josh is working a lot on the races right now and I heard Tim and him talking about them just the other day. I know we want them to all feel different not just based upon how they look, but how their race both effects their starting statistics and statistics as they grow. Having said that, we want to be careful about having a race have too much of an affinity for a certain class. If we do that, then we really create the situation where everyone builds the same characters.

Question: did You have time to Check my question via email ?
Feargus: The mercenaries that you create and hire from the Adventurer's Hall will have the normal NPC voice set - charging in to combat, getting hurt badly, scoring a really good hit, etc... But, they won't involve themselves in the story - I don't think.

Question: Soooo... close.... Someone was musing earlier today that there might be an inverse correlation between interest in old school rpgs and facebook @Feargus Do you think the facebook likes contributed to the huge funding upswing we've seen since the weekend?
Feargus: We are just trying to do everything we can to get the word out - and the Facebook likes, I think, are totally helping that. Chris did about six or seven interviews over the last couple of days at the Austin GDC - those should all hit over the next day or two, which should help as well.

Question: Just a minor concern I've been reading elsewhere some comments about the introduction of Paladins as a potential class for PE. Some people are worried that Obsidian have compromised their vision by offering this as an option and they are worried that you guys feel in someway beholden to vocal elements of the fan base and are shoehorning in elements that you don't really want to include at their behest. Rest assured they are coming from a caring place and just want to feel that Obsidian is make the game that they want to make. This worried me a little because having been outspoken I'd hate to feel that we were affecting your companies vision. How do you feel about this?
Feargus: I like to play Paladins.

Question: With all the big rewards for this project are you guys making any money for the game? I'm asking this because I remember that for DFA the rewards took a considerable portion of the money. On the other hand they were 11.5k for the collector's box so that would have been pretty expensive to fulfill.
Feargus: We are watching all the numbers very carefully and when all is said and done, we are confident we will end up with a good amount of money to make the game.

Question: Do you think the success of the Kickstarter will make publishers take you guys more seriously at future pitch meetings?
Feargus: We continue to talk to publishers all the time (well not much the last couple of weeks). The best way of looking at PE is, agreeing with Telix here, it's just not their business. Will they listen more - I think so, but I don't know if it will be enough more to make them want to make PE like games.


Feargus: Almost at 16K on Facebook - nice! Share'em if you got'em. :) $41K and 960 people in Paypal.

#1388
Allan Schumacher

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I don't have any fundamental issue with Paladins existing, I just don't mind some deviation from the standard archetypes.

"Mage" "Fighter" "Priest" and "Rogue" are vague enough that there's still a ton of freedom with what those classes represent.

Now that we're effectively getting Paladins and Chanters (bards...), those types of classes start to become more and more specialized. I am primarily a Paladin player when I play the IE games, but the joys of not using a license or an IP is the idea of not being constrained.


Though frankly, I saw a lot of this in the Double Fine and Wasteland kickstarters too, where the appeal to nostalgia results in a lot of people asking/hoping/insisting on the finer details of said nostalgia (this class must be in, you must have this game idea, it better by Psychonauts 2).

I'm typically the type of person that goes "If Tim Schaefer decided to do something familiar and make a sequel to a different game, we wouldn't have had Psychonauts!" I think it'd be awful if Black Isle made some Forgotten Realms game instead of Planescape: Torment. Part of what I loved about these settings is that they were fresh and new, so when I hear of a game "inspired by the IE games" I'm pretty liberal on what that means. I love to play Paladins, but maybe there's something else out there that I love to play even more and I just haven't played it yet! Before I made my first Paladin in Eye of the Beholder, I'm sure there was some other archetype that I preferred to play in fantasy adventure games.

#1389
Yrkoon

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I really hope they do indeed come up with something fresh and different  to define the Paladin class, Because IMO, they were a next to worthless in every single D&D based  computer game I've ever played.

-They were "warriors", but not as good at melee combat as fighters, barbarians and berserkers.
-They were "priests", but didn't have the huge spell arsenal that clerics and druids had.
-They were "all purpose" jack-of-all-trades type of class, but lacked the utility value of bards and rogues, who were better at it.

So basically, they were the lesser version of everything else. The only thing they had going for them was the whole holy warrior schtick - doin' it for Tyr! Fighting for Tempus!  Kicking ass for  Helm! etc. Which would have been cool except that not a single game they're in has ever managed to make use of this schtick, beyond the standard "go find your Holy Avenger sword, so that your character can actually feel as important as the other members of your party."

Modifié par Yrkoon, 11 octobre 2012 - 11:24 .


#1390
Spatia

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

I don't have any fundamental issue with Paladins existing, I just don't mind some deviation from the standard archetypes.

"Mage" "Fighter" "Priest" and "Rogue" are vague enough that there's still a ton of freedom with what those classes represent.

Now
that we're effectively getting Paladins and Chanters (bards...), those
types of classes start to become more and more specialized. I am
primarily a Paladin player when I play the IE games, but the joys of not
using a license or an IP is the idea of not being constrained.


Though
frankly, I saw a lot of this in the Double Fine and Wasteland
kickstarters too, where the appeal to nostalgia results in a lot of
people asking/hoping/insisting on the finer details of said nostalgia
(this class must be in, you must have this game idea, it better by
Psychonauts 2).

I'm typically the type of person that goes "If
Tim Schaefer decided to do something familiar and make a sequel to a
different game, we wouldn't have had Psychonauts!" I think it'd be
awful if Black Isle made some Forgotten Realms game instead of
Planescape: Torment. Part of what I loved about these settings is that
they were fresh and new, so when I hear of a game "inspired by the IE
games" I'm pretty liberal on what that means. I love to play Paladins,
but maybe there's something else out there that I love to play even more
and I just haven't played it yet! Before I made my first Paladin in
Eye of the Beholder, I'm sure there was some other archetype that I
preferred to play in fantasy adventure games.


I agree entirely. There's huge scope for freedom in creating a IE-inspired game that isn't dictated by D&D rules or at least Forgotten Realms, so I hope Obsidian aren't forced to waste that opportunity by just mimicking classes (as well as lore) that have been done plenty of times in the past.

It reminds me of people complaining about the lack of Necromancer, Ranger, Druid etc in Diablo 3. Whilst several changes put me off it, such as the change in artstyle, one of the main reasons I bought the game was the invention of fresh new classes.

Modifié par Spatia, 11 octobre 2012 - 11:26 .


#1391
Yrkoon

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But really, there's no such thing as a "fresh new class". The D&D based classes are so numerous, so varied, and so vague that it's virtually impossible to create something  that D&D hasn't already covered at least 20 years ago.

At their most creative, non D&D based games can sometimes manage to take an already established D&D class and just:  1) give it a new name;  or 2) shake off a few of the cliches  associated with this class.

But they can never  actually create anything new and still mantain a fantasy setting.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 11 octobre 2012 - 11:49 .


#1392
MichaelStuart

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Properly a pointless question, but should I give more money?
They seem to be making everything I want out of the game all ready. Extra classes don't really interest me and I don't really know the work of George Ziets to get excited about him helping to write it.

#1393
Fast Jimmy

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Michael... don't take this the wrong way, but how does anything Project Eternity is doing sound appealing to you in the least? From every opinion and idea I've seen you post on these boards, a game like PE would be the exact OPPOSITE of what you'd enjoy?

I may be totally offbase on that, but it I were you, I'd say give less unless you are absolutely sure the new goals are something that really interests you.

#1394
azarhal

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

Though frankly, I saw a lot of this in the Double Fine and Wasteland kickstarters too, where the appeal to nostalgia results in a lot of people asking/hoping/insisting on the finer details of said nostalgia (this class must be in, you must have this game idea, it better by Psychonauts 2).


I blame the people crying over this more than the dev for the inclusion. They are the ones that can't understand that they simply did not fit the new universe Obsidian are creating. So now they are stuck with a class called Paladin who actually play like a 4e Warlords and sucks at one-on-one encounters.

#1395
chunkyman

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MichaelStuart wrote...

Properly a pointless question, but should I give more money?
They seem to be making everything I want out of the game all ready. Extra classes don't really interest me and I don't really know the work of George Ziets to get excited about him helping to write it.


Yes. Not every dollar towards a stretchgoal goes into producing that stretchgoal, it also adds money to the various other sections (music, storyline, etc.), making the game as a whole much deeper.

#1396
Eurypterid

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Don't think this was posted in here yet:

VGRevolution interview with Josh Sawyer

#1397
Guest_Gurris_*

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Damn! The screenshot looks amazing.

If we hit $3.0 Million, we will build a stronghold worthy of the title!

If you take us on an exciting adventure to $3.5 Million, we will take you on an exciting adventure to another big city.

There's also some very interesting lore.

Modifié par Gurris, 11 octobre 2012 - 06:41 .


#1398
Brockololly

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That environment is freaking gorgeous!
Image IPB

#1399
Chromie

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Wow! Looks amazing!

#1400
Remus Artega

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New wallpaper?...yep

the lore is also interesting

Modifié par Remus Artega, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:22 .