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Project Eternity


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#1626
rjshae

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chunkyman wrote...

WhiteThunder wrote...
This game is the only reason I'm not upset about not being able to choose my character's race in DA3.

Yeah, DA3 isn't heading anywhere in a direction I enjoy. I'm really excited for this game and Wasteland 2, though.

Yeah, definitely going to wait and see on the DA3 release. I'm not all down on the DA2 release as some people seem to be, but it did seem a little too arcade-game-ish for my taste.

Can't wait for PE and Wasteland 2. But they're 1-2 years off. Meanwhile, I might just try the BGEE when that comes out. :)

#1627
chunkyman

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LTD wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

WhiteThunder wrote...

This game is the only reason I'm not upset about not being able to choose my character's race in DA3.


Yeah, DA3 isn't heading anywhere in a direction I enjoy. I'm really excited for this game and Wasteland 2, though.


Surely  DA II left everyone down and moody and whatnot. Still, what on earth has there been revealed about DAIII that would enable you to claim it is heading in a bad direction?



Paraphrase system + voiced protagonist makes it completely impossible for me to roleplay. Since Bioware seems pretty commited to that path, I have very little interest in DA3.

#1628
Yrkoon

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LTD wrote...
Surely  DA II left everyone down and moody and whatnot. Still, what on earth has there been revealed about DAIII that would enable you to claim it is heading in a bad direction?

1) Multi-player
2) No  race options
3) Voiced protagonist
4) No Finishing moves
5) Drastically reduced # of class specializations  (Laidlaw said one per class is the goal)
6) They're still dead set on the moronic notion of "Iconic Companions"  - meaning, despite the so-called  compromise on companion gear outfitting, we're still stripped of all semblance of player agency in that department.  And they showed us their plan.  It's silly.  You put a piece of  shiny steel  armor on a character who's "iconic look" is  a leather jerkin, and they'll still  be wearing a leather Jerkin, only it will have metal shoulder pads or some  meaningless nonsense.
7) Bioware's recent track record.  This one cannot be ignored.  It started with Awakening.  Then we saw it with DA2, then Mark of the Assassin, then ME3....   Project after project not living up to Bioware's previously high quality standards....  Something is broken.  And there's no evidence to suggest that they've finally got their act together for DA3.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 octobre 2012 - 01:32 .


#1629
wsandista

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Yrkoon wrote...

LTD wrote...
Surely  DA II left everyone down and moody and whatnot. Still, what on earth has there been revealed about DAIII that would enable you to claim it is heading in a bad direction?

1) Multi-player
2) No  race options
3) Voiced protagonist
4) No Finishing moves
5) Drastically reduced # of class specializations  (Laidlaw said one per class is the goal)
6) They're still dead set on the moronic notion of "Iconic Companions"  - meaning, despite the so-called  compromise on companion gear outfitting, we're still stripped of all semblance of player agency in that department.  And they showed us their plan.  It's silly.
7) Bioware's recent track record.  This one cannot be ignored.  It started with Awakening.  Then we saw it with DA2, then Mark of the Assassin, then ME3....   Project after project not living up to Bioware's previously high quality standards....  Something is broken.  And there's no evidence to suggest that they've finally got their act together


Not to mention that they seem to have an unreasonable dedication to the dialogue wheel. It is probably the worst dialogue system I have ever seen, but for some reason they want to stick with it.

#1630
Yrkoon

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^and cinematics. With every single title since ME1, we've seen a drastic increase in cutscenes. By the time DA3 comes out, do not be surprized if gameplay is interrupted every 2 minutes for a cutscene. The projected end goal to this, if it's not kept in check by someone up high in the process, is that within a few years, Bioware games wil no longer even HAVE gameplay.  Instead, The game will simply be one long cinematic  with pauses every few minutes so that the player may "choose" what his protagonist says or does within this cinematic.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 octobre 2012 - 01:40 .


#1631
wsandista

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Yrkoon wrote...

^and cinematics. With every single title since ME1, we've seen a drastic increase in cutscenes. By the time DA3 comes out, do not be surprized if gameplay is interrupted every 2 minutes for a cutscene. The projected end goal to this, if it's not kept in check by someone up high in the process is that within a few years, Bioware games will HAVE no gameplay. ThThe game will simply be one long cinematic experience with pauses every few minutes so that the player may "choose" what his protagonist says or does within this cinematic.


I think they're already at the point where gameplay interrupts cinematics. It seemed like I watched ME3 rather than played it.

#1632
Chromie

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Yrkoon wrote...

5) Drastically reduced # of class specializations  (Laidlaw said one per class is the goal)


One per class? What the hell would be the point of a specialization if not to make a choose between idk Blood Mage or Debilitator? Why not just increase the number of talents then. This sounds incredibily stupid.

#1633
BearlyHere

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wsandista wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

^and cinematics. With every single title since ME1, we've seen a drastic increase in cutscenes. By the time DA3 comes out, do not be surprized if gameplay is interrupted every 2 minutes for a cutscene. The projected end goal to this, if it's not kept in check by someone up high in the process is that within a few years, Bioware games will HAVE no gameplay. ThThe game will simply be one long cinematic experience with pauses every few minutes so that the player may "choose" what his protagonist says or does within this cinematic.


I think they're already at the point where gameplay interrupts cinematics. It seemed like I watched ME3 rather than played it.


I think they would be perfectly happy putting out a MP game with a animated DVD telling the story attached. Bioware needs to get some gamers working there again, or the ones still there who hate what a once great company is turning into should make the jump to a game company that doesn't mind making games.

#1634
Morroian

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Skelter192 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

5) Drastically reduced # of class specializations  (Laidlaw said one per class is the goal)


One per class? What the hell would be the point of a specialization if not to make a choose between idk Blood Mage or Debilitator? Why not just increase the number of talents then. This sounds incredibily stupid.


I think the way it will work is that you choose 1 spec from several choices available ie. blood mage, spirit healer etc.

But why is DA3 being discussed on this thread anyway?

Modifié par Morroian, 22 octobre 2012 - 02:50 .


#1635
WhiteThunder

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@Yrkoon
Don't lump Awakening in with DA2 and ME3. Yeah, it felt kinda perfunctory, like it was missing something, but it wasn't offensive.

#1636
Cyberarmy

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wsandista wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

^and cinematics. With every single title since ME1, we've seen a drastic increase in cutscenes. By the time DA3 comes out, do not be surprized if gameplay is interrupted every 2 minutes for a cutscene. The projected end goal to this, if it's not kept in check by someone up high in the process is that within a few years, Bioware games will HAVE no gameplay. ThThe game will simply be one long cinematic experience with pauses every few minutes so that the player may "choose" what his protagonist says or does within this cinematic.


I think they're already at the point where gameplay interrupts cinematics. It seemed like I watched ME3 rather than played it.


Ww are returning to the days of "Dragons Lair" and "Hugo"...

#1637
Yrkoon

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Cyberarmy wrote...
Ww are returning to the days of "Dragons Lair" and "Hugo"...

Of course, the really interesting thing about this is that when Dragon's Lair  came out, it was hailed  as  a massive  ground breaking feat  that was supposed to change the entire face of the Gaming industry.  And anyone who was around back then saw the huge crowds  that gathered around  that game in every single Arcade in the world.

But  despite its brief but glorious 15 minutes of fame, it didn't change the industry at all.  And it's almost 30  years later...  where are we?   Oh yeah,  we're back in reality-land, where the majority of gamers want to play  games, not interact with a movie.  Bioware thinks their style of game is  "innovative"  and "the future".  It's neither.  Ironically enough, it's actually ancient history,  as you point out. 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 octobre 2012 - 12:37 .


#1638
Fast Jimmy

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Ugh... Dragon's Lair was horrible. I've never played a game that had so many ways to lose so easily.

#1639
Cyberarmy

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Well, as long as we have such KS projects im OK.
Doublefine Adventure, The Banner Saga, Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns, Dead State, Grimdawn and even Star Citizen.
Add that pool The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2070 also Southpark RPG and Baldurs Gate Enhanced Edition.
Lastly (is that a word?) there will be suprisingly good games(minor chances) and old school indies.

I have forgetton some for sure but these gems are enough to occupy me for nearly a decade. After that i may start to grumbling again :)

#1640
Eurypterid

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Cyberarmy wrote...
Lastly (is that a word?)


It is.

Cyberarmy wrote...

I have forgetton some for sure but these gems are enough to occupy me for nearly a decade. After that i may start to grumbling again :)


I'd add Age of Decadence, Eschalon Book III, and Divinity:Original Sin to that list as well.

#1641
Chromie

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Why does no one know Underrail? :(

Modifié par Skelter192, 22 octobre 2012 - 02:23 .


#1642
Cyberarmy

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Skelter192 wrote...

Why does no one know Underrail? :(


Maybe because its under the rail?:lol::lol::lol: Hehe i hate myself now :)

@Eurypterid;

I knew i forget some thank you :) , i also hope for another Drakensang game but it seems like IP had been "browserized"

#1643
PaulSX

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Skelter192 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

5) Drastically reduced # of class specializations  (Laidlaw said one per class is the goal)


One per class? What the hell would be the point of a specialization if not to make a choose between idk Blood Mage or Debilitator? Why not just increase the number of talents then. This sounds incredibily stupid.


what he means is specializations will be more like class kits (for example fighter in BG2 can be Berserker, wizard slayer or kensai) and you can only choose one special kit when you create a character in certain class. But that does not mean there is only one kit per class.

#1644
rjshae

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Cyberarmy wrote...

Well, as long as we have such KS projects im OK.
Doublefine Adventure, The Banner Saga, Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns, Dead State, Grimdawn and even Star Citizen.
Add that pool The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2070 also Southpark RPG and Baldurs Gate Enhanced Edition.
Lastly (is that a word?) there will be suprisingly good games(minor chances) and old school indies.

I have forgetton some for sure but these gems are enough to occupy me for nearly a decade. After that i may start to grumbling again :)

Here here!

I'm sure there will also be successors to Skyrim and FNV in the mix as well, plus the follow-ons to PE.

#1645
FedericoV

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Yrkoon wrote...

LTD wrote...
Surely  DA II left everyone down and moody and whatnot. Still, what on earth has there been revealed about DAIII that would enable you to claim it is heading in a bad direction?

1) Multi-player
2) No  race options
3) Voiced protagonist
4) No Finishing moves
5) Drastically reduced # of class specializations  (Laidlaw said one per class is the goal)
6) They're still dead set on the moronic notion of "Iconic Companions"  - meaning, despite the so-called  compromise on companion gear outfitting, we're still stripped of all semblance of player agency in that department.  And they showed us their plan.  It's silly.  You put a piece of  shiny steel  armor on a character who's "iconic look" is  a leather jerkin, and they'll still  be wearing a leather Jerkin, only it will have metal shoulder pads or some  meaningless nonsense.
7) Bioware's recent track record.  This one cannot be ignored.  It started with Awakening.  Then we saw it with DA2, then Mark of the Assassin, then ME3....   Project after project not living up to Bioware's previously high quality standards....  Something is broken.  And there's no evidence to suggest that they've finally got their act together for DA3.


You are forgetting TOR-tanic. In general, it's hard to deny that EA development "culture" is harming Bioware. 

Having said that, games focus on different aestethic experiences. Bioware has decided to focus on the authorial narrative over the player's fantasy since they shifted to consolle. They are building their entire game language/brand over that element. If some mechanic/dinamic (like different races or silent protagonist) contrasts the narrative as it's written and envisioned by the dev team, it get cut. If there's room for a compromise, they're willing to explore it. But the narrative come first every time a decision has to be made.

Personally, I would love them to expand a little bit and offer more aestethic experiences. DA2 showed that narrative and challenge alone are not enough to qualify a game as a good RPG. The personal fantasy is the element that qualify the RPG more than anything else (and that's why TES is considered the best RPG series even if its narrative have been sucking since the time of Morrowind). But it's clear that DA3 team has not GTA4 budget, so I understand their struggle and respect their decision to focus on what they see as crucial.

Having said that, even a game like TW2 focus mostly on narrative and challange. The player has little to none freedom left to build his personal fantasy. We can all agree that it's a very good game and many DA2 critics loved it. So I guess that it's even a problem of execution. What can I say, now that PE is a reality I'm more willing to take DA for what the devs wanted it to be. I'm not invested anymore in the franchise. I won't preorder. I'll wait some months before deciding to buy it or not. But if it's a good storydriven RPG I will buy it and play it off course.

Modifié par FedericoV, 22 octobre 2012 - 08:40 .


#1646
Yrkoon

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rjshae wrote...

Cyberarmy wrote...

Well, as long as we have such KS projects im OK.
Doublefine Adventure, The Banner Saga, Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns, Dead State, Grimdawn and even Star Citizen.
Add that pool The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2070 also Southpark RPG and Baldurs Gate Enhanced Edition.
Lastly (is that a word?) there will be suprisingly good games(minor chances) and old school indies.

I have forgetton some for sure but these gems are enough to occupy me for nearly a decade. After that i may start to grumbling again :)

Here here!

I'm sure there will also be successors to Skyrim and FNV in the mix as well, plus the follow-ons to PE.

Yep.

We most definitely haven't seen the last of Bethesda and  their Skyrim Add-ons.  And Obsidian never rests.  They always  seem to be working on something  new/different.

Finding another decent new game to bide your time while you're waiting for a particular new game to finish being made.... is never a problem. The game industry is pretty  straight forward:  Developers want your money, and you want to give them your money. That's probably the best symbiotic relationship there is.  It insures that there's always  something about to come out.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 octobre 2012 - 08:55 .


#1647
Addai

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Yrkoon wrote...
The game industry is pretty  straight forward:  Developers want your money, and you want to give them your money. That's probably the best symbiotic relationship there is.  It insures that there's always  something about to come out.

Oh, I would say it fails pretty often, owing to marketing promises + expectations meeting financial and technical realities and creating disappointment.  And let's be honest, that is not something which Kickstarter is going to eliminate.  In fact, because expecations and trust are a lot higher, when it fails (and it inevitably will with some project, as Chris Avellone has said in interviews) it's going to fall harder.

I just hope that doesn't impact any projects I care about.  :lol:

#1648
rjshae

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Addai67 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
The game industry is pretty  straight forward:  Developers want your money, and you want to give them your money. That's probably the best symbiotic relationship there is.  It insures that there's always  something about to come out.

Oh, I would say it fails pretty often, owing to marketing promises + expectations meeting financial and technical realities and creating disappointment.  And let's be honest, that is not something which Kickstarter is going to eliminate.  In fact, because expecations and trust are a lot higher, when it fails (and it inevitably will with some project, as Chris Avellone has said in interviews) it's going to fall harder.

I just hope that doesn't impact any projects I care about.  :lol:

I 've just been burned too many times with buggy, cruddy game releases, so these days I almost always wait a year or more before I buy a game. But I broke that rule for PE and Wasteland 2; hope I won't be sorry.

#1649
99DP1982

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Supported it - proud of it - waiting for my boxed copy

#1650
chunkyman

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Image IPB

Too bad we can't see the feet. :crying:

Modifié par chunkyman, 24 octobre 2012 - 01:27 .