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Project Eternity


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#1651
Fast Jimmy

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rjshae wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
The game industry is pretty  straight forward:  Developers want your money, and you want to give them your money. That's probably the best symbiotic relationship there is.  It insures that there's always  something about to come out.

Oh, I would say it fails pretty often, owing to marketing promises + expectations meeting financial and technical realities and creating disappointment.  And let's be honest, that is not something which Kickstarter is going to eliminate.  In fact, because expecations and trust are a lot higher, when it fails (and it inevitably will with some project, as Chris Avellone has said in interviews) it's going to fall harder.

I just hope that doesn't impact any projects I care about.  :lol:

I 've just been burned too many times with buggy, cruddy game releases, so these days I almost always wait a year or more before I buy a game. But I broke that rule for PE and Wasteland 2; hope I won't be sorry.


Honestly, this brings to light value of having console-exlcusive games. And I'm not talking about games that don't just come out on PC... I'm talking about titles that only came out on the 360, or only came out on the PS3. 

While it lowers the market depth for the product, it let the developer code and plan for one set of interfaces, one set of hardware and one set of software requirements. It seems there were a lot less bugs and glitches when everything was limited to just one system.

PC releases have to deal with thousands of different hardware configurations, so its not a simple effort to even just do a PC-only release. 

There is always a cost to doing something. That's an unfortunate rule of life.

#1652
Brockololly

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They have another update on their Kickstarter page, #28.

Sounds pretty fantastic!

Fast Jimmy wrote...
PC releases have to deal with thousands of different hardware  configurations, so its not a simple effort to even just do a PC-only  release. 

There is always a cost to doing something. That's an unfortunate rule of life.


Sure, but then again for console only releases you have to deal with the BS Microsoft and Sony put you through with patches and certification and aging hardware.

Modifié par Brockololly, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:03 .


#1653
wsandista

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Brockololly wrote...

They have another update on their Kickstarter page, #28.

Sounds pretty fantastic!


Damn right!

Fast Jimmy wrote...
PC releases have to deal with thousands of different hardware  configurations, so its not a simple effort to even just do a PC-only  release. 

There is always a cost to doing something. That's an unfortunate rule of life.


Sure, but then again for console only releases you have to deal with the BS Microsoft and Sony put you through with patches and certification and aging hardware.


Or Nintendo, IIRC Beamdog had a particularly bad experience with them.

#1654
Allan Schumacher

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In general I have no real beef with Microsoft's TRC. It basically exists to try to prevent completely broken and awful games from being released (this was a huge issue for the original Atari).

They also tend to be pretty detailed and consistent in their interpretations and frankly it's useful for us to have their checklist of the types of things they'll be checking for.

Some of it can be a bit bizarre (we have to test for THAT sequence of steps!?) but I think this helps contribute to console releases often being a bit more stable as well. At least in terms of fatal issues.

#1655
Allan Schumacher

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Discussion taken offline.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 24 octobre 2012 - 06:34 .


#1656
Dominus

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#6 I'd like to take this moment that just because you're in a thread regarding Project Eternity, you're still on BioWare's forums and calling the ideas a bunch of moronic ones and complaining about a lack of player agency on characters that aren't even yours is just coming across as having an axe to grind. Please take it elsewhere. It's honestly like you don't think I am also a participant in this thread, like you're in some corner of the world where you can talk **** about me and I won't see it.


I'm not sure he was necessarily calling it purely moronic(though I'm only going off of that direct quote). However, saying it's stripped of player agency comes off as an exaggeration.

As far as the last part, (though it is an Off-Topic Tangent)I personally try to talk online as I would to anyone Face-To-Face, and prefer it that way.

#1657
Seifer006

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

They also tend to be pretty detailed and consistent in their interpretations and frankly it's useful for us to have their checklist of the types of things they'll be checking for..


are you going to buy Project Eternity?

it's looks very good. the old "classic" feel. that nostalgicness I like.

#1658
Allan Schumacher

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Yes. I am a contributor to Project Eternity. Obsidian is one of my favourite developers.

#1659
Cyberarmy

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Mega Dungeon is game in game itself O_o gameception

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#1660
Allan Schumacher

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Enjoyed Josh's video.

I liked the "Well you funded a really big game..................crap!" type of vibe for how much work needs to be done lol.

#1661
Isichar

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BG: EE and then Project Eternity. Sweet! Glad I donated before it closed.

#1662
Das Tentakel

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Brockololly wrote...

They have another update on their Kickstarter page, #28.

Sounds pretty fantastic!


Yup!

To be honest, while I did donate, I am keeping my expectations tightly in check. Obsidian’s past record is somewhat…spotty when it comes to such minutiae like deadlines, bugs etc.
But I think it’s important to ‘keep them in the game’ and encourage public funding of projects I’d like to see but which ‘the big boys’ aren’t interested in (for whatever reason).

I rather liked this:

‘The size and structure of the world - This game will be... large. And it will have two big cities, exploration areas, and a 15-level mega-dungeon. Ensuring that the world is planned properly requires examination of what has worked for us in the past and what hasn't. The original Baldur's Gate had a number of wilderness areas, but low density of content in many of those areas. Baldur's Gate II had much greater content density, but fewer wilderness/pure exploration areas. We'd like to make sure we have pure exploration areas while still maintaining good content density.’


I did a partial replay of Baldur’s Gate I in 2011 (confession: I was never a great fan of it, though I definitely had respect for the achievement) and those wilderness areas, while they did a good job of creating a ‘sense of scale’, where a bit TOO empty and too uninteresting in terms of visuals. At the same time, I sorely missed them in Baldur’s Gate II, which I liked more but, well, felt more claustrophobic.

I will freely admit to being an ‘explorer’ type of gamer (well, according to the Bartle test); I swam and climbed all over Azeroth in vanilla WoW, discovering small hidden areas and getting into zones that were officially not ‘open’ yet. Went to all the nooks and crannies in content-starved zones in Age of Conan, and sailed along the coast of Eikronas in Two Worlds II.

I did notice a couple of things:

1) A lot of games apparently produce large amounts of excess ‘real estate’ (which sometimes gets into the game or not)
2) Provided they are away from the ‘main flow’ of the game (linked zones, central narrative), these areas are not ‘in the way’, but are a very welcome addition to explorer types like me. In other words, non-explorer types will probably never visit them or only briefly, but they will be like honey to busy little explorer bees :-),
3) You do need SOME content to make this exploration meaningful, some reward. Rare animals, some opposition in the form of monsters, bandits etc. Points of interest like ruins or a small hidden village; chests with goodies. Even something as ‘simple’ of visually pleasing landscapes, or the remains of a rare creature (bones of a giant, a dragon, sea monster etc.)

To give an example, I am currently replaying Two Worlds II (PC version) and I explored the coasts of Eikronas, the largest island in the game (and it’s freakin’ huuuge). Most of that island is used for multiplayer maps, and plays no role in the singleplayer game (most of the island is not even accessible in singleplayer). Eikronas’ coastal areas are actually accessible (the total amount of real estate here is actually pretty large), but there are no quests involved. It is not empty however; and some of it ‘suggest’ stories to the player. For instance, there is this area with jagged rocks in the sea, where you can find evidence of many wrecked ships and boats. Other areas have a wrecked boat or ship, and the remains of a camp on the beach, or may have some ruins, or an encampment of fish-people.

In the case of Age of Conan and Two Worlds II, much (maybe all) of the ‘exploration areas’ may be the result of a ‘misalignment’ between finances, deadlines and content creation, but the result does sort of work in terms of encouraging and rewarding exploration.

I wonder how PE will handle this. If the ‘pure’ exploration areas are ‘off the beaten track’ and indeed purely optional, that has the disadvantage of only appealing to a minority of gamers (though it may still add to the ‘sense of scale’ perceived by the rest).
On the other hand, if they are a bit * too * developed – with numerous optional quests and plenty of critters and treasure – they might end up becoming effectively part of the ‘main game’, providing lots of XP and loot and becoming de facto non-optional: Stuff most players do, if only for levelling purposes.

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 24 octobre 2012 - 08:45 .


#1663
99DP1982

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Well, Josh's face told everything...

"I went to a logistics meeting and then went OH CRAP! - we have to deliver so much" :D

I assume that it will require a lot of drinking to saturate creative minds for the story and a lot of lashing for the art guys to complete all those big cities and dungeon to be unique and aesthetically appealing ;)

#1664
Yrkoon

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MODEDIT discussion taken to PMs.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 24 octobre 2012 - 06:34 .


#1665
Das Tentakel

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@Yrkoon:

While I share many of your reservations and complaints, this is the Project Eternity thread and I don’t think this is the place to fulminate against DA2 and DA3. Plenty of places elsewhere.

No offence intended, just suggesting that it would be nice if we keep this thread somewhat clear of the current and (inevitable) future controversies that relate to DA3, not Project Eternity.

Plenty of room for passion there ;)

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#1666
Fast Jimmy

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Das...



...are you implying that the BSN is like the Sharks and the Jets?

Because that would be awesome.

#1667
MichaelStuart

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I'm happy they are adding pure exploration areas.
I find nothing more fun then getting lost in the wilderness.

#1668
chunkyman

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Yeah... I think we should stop talking about DA3 altogether. That got a bit out of hand... :unsure:

Anyways, I wonder if they will get a (budget) orchestra to play the music since they said live instrumentation will be used.

Modifié par chunkyman, 24 octobre 2012 - 04:41 .


#1669
Allan Schumacher

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99DP1982 wrote...

Well, Josh's face told everything...

"I went to a logistics meeting and then went OH CRAP! - we have to deliver so much" :D

I assume that it will require a lot of drinking to saturate creative minds for the story and a lot of lashing for the art guys to complete all those big cities and dungeon to be unique and aesthetically appealing ;)



It'll be a big issue on design as well.  That's probably where it will be the biggest issue IMO, since it'll be the area that needs a lot of iteration to prevent bugs.

#1670
Allan Schumacher

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Note: I have shifted off topic discussion to PMs.


As a general note: use this thread to champion Project Eternity and Obsidian and how you're looking forward to it. Using it to illustrate how BioWare is completely screwing the pooch, or to substantiate the ire towards BioWare and our decisions for DA3 is not acceptable in this thread.

#1671
99DP1982

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

99DP1982 wrote...

Well, Josh's face told everything...

"I went to a logistics meeting and then went OH CRAP! - we have to deliver so much" :D

I assume that it will require a lot of drinking to saturate creative minds for the story and a lot of lashing for the art guys to complete all those big cities and dungeon to be unique and aesthetically appealing ;)



It'll be a big issue on design as well.  That's probably where it will be the biggest issue IMO, since it'll be the area that needs a lot of iteration to prevent bugs.


Agreed, design wise it'll be a chore... I do not think that there was a game with so much content before as this game is aiming for...

The mega-dungeon alone is in scope of the original Diablo (that H&S had 16 levels), and you can't just fill it with boring stuff. I expect each level to be something akin to Durlag's Tower, The Watcher's Keep, Dragon's Eye , etc.

Then as you've pointed out the amount of possible quests, transitions etc will be enormous. I think that many people can remember how many explorable areas were in the Baldur's Gate or Athkatla. Now double the work on that... 

#1672
Allan Schumacher

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Seeing Durlag's Tower reminds me:

What do people think about traps? In general I don't find them that interesting in the IE games, though admittedly the last time I played the IE games my perspectives on what I wanted out of an RPG have shifted.

#1673
Dave of Canada

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I've always found traps to be nothing but an annoyance in all games, they're either significant enough that you're always checking for them (which the developer intends) but doesn't feel fun by doing so or they're just minor and taking the hit is just more convenient than always looking for them (which the developer doesn't intend.)

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 24 octobre 2012 - 08:23 .


#1674
Allan Schumacher

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I didn't mind them in a game like Fallout New Vegas though, since their placement was usually context appropriate.

Though that didn't stop me from having to deal with save scumming urges! <.<

#1675
99DP1982

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

Seeing Durlag's Tower reminds me:

What do people think about traps? In general I don't find them that interesting in the IE games, though admittedly the last time I played the IE games my perspectives on what I wanted out of an RPG have shifted.


Adventuring and dungeon crawling = traps... It's been so long the part of the experience.... I mean, can you for example imagine an Idiana Jones movie without traps?

The traps do not have to be simple placables, they can be actual mechanisms, that you can work around. Usually, if it is a place which lures adventurers, there should be some visual indication that "oh crap, something is not right here", unless you talk about some advanced trap doors. The trap should not be a mere nuisance to have an impact on a gameplay, it should actually have a real impact if you plan to implement one.

I admit, it is probably difficult to implement "GOOD" traps in a cRPG, but one should not simply dismiss them. I can imagine a use of a few traps in some places, where they would make sense, but at the same time with a visual warning that the trap mmight be there (odd bodies, unusually clean floor, etc)