197 réponses à ce sujet

[bnm73]

StrawHatMoose wrote...

No. Devs have said it is A feature. I'm glad to know you are ignorant.

By that logic, anything that was overlooked by the devleopers is a "feature."   the Vanguard glitch is another "feature."  And being able to have infinite missles is another "feature."  /end sarcasm

IMHO, it's not strictly kosher, but it's one of the much milder forms of cheating/rule bending that goes on in ME3 MP, and it's a lot less frustrating than 10 year olds thinking that the missile glitch is what the MP was designed for.

[dzero]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Testosticore wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

Testosticore wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

Cyonan wrote...


Out of curiosity, have you guys/girls ever entertained the idea of having a reload cancel button(or even just pressing reload a second time), as opposed to the current popular method if doing it via medi-gel?

I didn't know animation cancelling was a thing in fighting games, but I'm still part of the "mash buttons wildly until somebody's health bar is empty" crowd =P

There is no intention of having such a button but any custom action performed by the character will cause the animation cancel when used at the right time (e.g. - reload + take cover, reload + dodge, etc.)

Any intention or consideration of alerting players to the existance of the action? I know a lot of people don't know about it outside of the BSN.

Sorry, I'm probably not the guy to ask.  I fear it's one of those hidden "easter eggs" that the designers felt players could discover.

While I have your attention, Derek, is there any chance of weapon stats being added in game in addition to or overlapping the bars we have currently? I'd like to see the number difference between a Widow I and Widow IV without having to google it.

And again, thanks for your participation.

I will never say never but at this point there have been no plans to.  Breaks immersion maybe?  Speculation on my part there.

Don't announce it. It's one of those hidden tricks that should be passed around by word of mouth. That makes it more special.

[LegacyOfTheAsh]

bnm73 wrote...

StrawHatMoose wrote...

No. Devs have said it is A feature. I'm glad to know you are ignorant.

By that logic, anything that was overlooked by the devleopers is a "feature."   the Vanguard glitch is another "feature."  And being able to have infinite missles is another "feature."  /end sarcasm

IMHO, it's not strictly kosher, but it's one of the much milder forms of cheating/rule bending that goes on in ME3 MP, and it's a lot less frustrating than 10 year olds thinking that the missile glitch is what the MP was designed for.

No. Though they are aware of certian glitches, they at least said they are attempting to fix them. Reload cancelling is one feature they specifically said they intend to keep in the game.

[LoboFH]

Personally I think is a clear "exploit" but the devs said is a feature, so I guess we must live with it.

Personally I think is a bug they don't know or don't want to fix and the word "feature" avoided all the hassle, call me crazy paranoid if you want.

I avoided actively to learn the system, so I never use reload cancel, I like to keep the challenge and a believable experience, and guns need to be reloaded.

Modifié par LoboFH, 14 septembre 2012 - 11:02 .

[Kenadian]

LoboFH wrote...

Personally I think is a clear "exploit" but the devs said is a feature, so I guess we must live with it.

Personally I think is a bug they don't know or don't want to fix and the word "feature" avoided all the hassle, call me crazy paranoid if you want.

I avoided actively to learn the system, so I never use reload cancel, I like to keep the challenge and a believable experience, and guns need to be reloaded.

It's not a bug, it has been stated multiple times it's in the coalesced file. Animation cancelling is a feature in many, many games. It is meant to give greater control over a character and its movement. How would you like that you can`t take cover or sprint away or use a power because you couldn`t cancel that reload animation? Bet you wouldn't like it. It's not a bug. It's not an exploit. It's a design feature that is working as intended. End of story.

[robarcool]

No, not according to official statement by Bioware. It is clever usage of in game mechanics, something I fail at despite being a PC user.

[Big Naked Wookiee]

In addition to the whole "thermal clips aren't the ammo, the ammo's already in the gun" argument, I found another gem from the codex.


To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable heat sinks known as thermal clips. While organic arms manufacturers were initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained soldier can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second. Faced with superior enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead, and today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Thermal_Clips#Small_Arms_2

I assume the MP soldiers are well-trained.

Modifié par Big Naked Wookiee, 14 septembre 2012 - 11:22 .

[MagicThoughts]

I'm asking this again.

If the reload canceling is intentional then how come we are not able to do the medigel trick on xbox and ps3?

[realgundam]

MagicThoughts wrote...

I'm asking this again.

If the reload canceling is intentional then how come we are not able to do the medigel trick on xbox and ps3?

"The effect of speeding up reload" wasn't intentional, it ended up as a good thing and they decided to keep it. It is that simple. "animation cancelling" however is intentional
Just like many great discovery in science, they weren't intentional.

You can use the run/dash key instead on 360 and PS3, I use the same on PC. Others prefer medgal.

Also about the fighting games... move cancelling has always been there, it allows quicker followup and creates longer combo, rewarding skilled players. Why not take the good things and accept it, adapt it to FPS? stop fussing about it.

Modifié par realgundam, 14 septembre 2012 - 11:51 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

It is not a Glitch, it is not an Exploit, and it is NOT cheating.
It is part of ANY and ALL games that have auto animations, timed responses, and manual animations.

All it is, is canceling an animation, just like in Fighting games, and other shooters.
Its not as if BioWare specifically went out and TREID to put it in, but it is not something they felt needed to be avoided.

They COULD have made it impossible to do ANYTHING while reloading...but they chose not to, causing the possibility to cancel the reload animation.

And that is a good thing.
Even if you had no idea HOW to reload cancel, and even if you thought it was cheating, I can bet you that you've done it multiple times without realizing it. Its that simple and miondless of a thing and it really doesn't benefit you on much of anything unless you NEED to fire off that next shot from a single fire weapon.
Now, if it was possible to somehow continue firing while reloading...THAT would be cheating (Excluding AdRush and Thermal Packs)

[cyleric1]

If you could cancel the animation before replenishing the ammo and still get a refill... then it would be an exploit or shortcut. The fact that you are only stopping your character from moving their arm away from the gun in slow motion, instead of to the trigger convinces me that it's a legitimately practiced mechanic that I'm glad is a part of the game. The devs were probably like, "Man this Claymore takes forever to finish the reload animation.. Let's allow a cancel mechanic!"

[blue water]

Derek Hollan wrote...
Reload cancelling is a game mechanic utilized in a number of different game titles.  The philosophy is that it rewards particularly skilled players for accomplishing the action.

On the surface, it does not seem fair or realistic but it is merely a mechanic like any other.

Suspension of disbelief can be brought into it by saying your particular soldier, adept, infiltrator, or whatever, has learned speed reloading, or whatever, even though the animation does not support it.

It's not something accepted by everyone.  It took me a long time to be convinced by Corey Gaspur that this was a good idea, but he plays a lot of fighting games.

Cheers

From three or so pages back. 

Modifié par blue water, 15 septembre 2012 - 12:02 .

[Chaoswind]

This is still going?

[Creighton72]

Testosticore wrote...

Creighton72 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Testosticore wrote...
Cyonan, games have been programmed with cheat codes nearly from the beginning of gaming. It's still a practice today to include cheat codes. They are cheats, even though they were intentionally added. Your argument isn't really one at all.

Only we decided a long time ago that reload cancelling isn't a cheat, but rather a feature.

Your argument isn't really one at all, either. Your points consist of:

1. It doesn't follow lore

A lot of things in this game break lore. Is Medi-Gel cheating, too?

2. It doesn't mimic real life.

Excuse me while I go fly through space at a speed faster than light with a species of all females that reproduce using their mind. Video games aren't real life and don't need to mimic real life unless they're going for the modern warfare style of things.

3. You don't like it. 

Not a valid argument for it being cheating.

It doesn't mimic real life, hahaha, I love it when people say that. You want real life join the Corps. Until then zip your lip. I would love to see that, "excuse me Mr. DI, when do we get are force fields and medi gels?" "My M16A3 has to much kick and sucks at shooting from the hip can I have a Paladin instead, with extra thermal clips?" "What to do you mean watch out for friendly fire?" "There is no reload cancel? What kind of half #### military is this?" "I am getting a blanket party, gosh that sounds fun." "Has anyone ever soloed Afghanistan on platinum?"

There is a form of real reload cancel. It's called a tac reload. I've explained it's real life application. You just can't do it when you're empty.

Tac reload is next to usless and has next to no application compared to an empty reload. Either way you are are going to release the mag and replace it. In real world application tac reload dumps ammo on the ground. If you want to bring the weapon back to capacity after engagment that's fine. But in the middle of a real fight you do not start juggling clips. Why would you break down a weapon that is firing perfectly fine in the middle of a fire fight?

In the game a reload cancel does not drop any ammo, nor do you juggle clips. It's nothing like a tac reload. It's just a quick way of going max ammo without dropping any ammo. It also makes the reload faster. A tac reload is neither faster, nor efficent. It's still a reload and you drop ammo it's simply meant to bring the weapon up to capacity after engagment. You also have no risk of jamming a weapon in ME3.

[ValorOfArms777]

I don't find it cheating but it's unbalancing certain guns like the claymore I'm really not against it but... if certain guns get TOO much edge it's quite disappointing removing choice over 1 gun for another cause of this it hides the fact most single shot guns really aren't up to par anymore or exponentially blasts the claymores single shot to being a nearly rapid fire gun able to blast enemies to smithereens fast and causing all other shotguns bad rep if some of the reload cancelling was back up a tad on some guns it would feel a tad better... now I do do it BUT I feel pretty sad to be using the same damn gun cause of some sorta "mechanic" that causes other guns to be worthless junk if it's a "mechanic" shouldn't it be taken into consideration? instead of out balancing the poor other shotties in example into dust cause of a claymore or hide the fact that the single shot snipers really DO suck compared to what they used to do and need buffing I'm not saying touch "damage values" persay but isntead touch up the reload cancelling and up some damages that need to be upped cause RC has hidden their flaw

[Jayhau]

Hey does Corey play marvel? And if so can I FT5 him?

[Yajuu Omoi]

ValorOfArms777 wrote...

I don't find it cheating but it's unbalancing certain guns like the claymore I'm really not against it but... if certain guns get TOO much edge it's quite disappointing removing choice over 1 gun for another cause of this it hides the fact most single shot guns really aren't up to par anymore or exponentially blasts the claymores single shot to being a nearly rapid fire gun able to blast enemies to smithereens fast and causing all other shotguns bad rep if some of the reload cancelling was back up a tad on some guns it would feel a tad better... now I do do it BUT I feel pretty sad to be using the same damn gun cause of some sorta "mechanic" that causes other guns to be worthless junk if it's a "mechanic" shouldn't it be taken into consideration? instead of out balancing the poor other shotties in example into dust cause of a claymore or hide the fact that the single shot snipers really DO suck compared to what they used to do and need buffing I'm not saying touch "damage values" persay but isntead touch up the reload cancelling and up some damages that need to be upped cause RC has hidden their flaw

WALL OF TEXT, speed read it...got the basics of your point...

Weapons like the Claymore, Kishock and Widow may have gotten a slightly larger advantage out of RC...but they were already on top of their game without it.

Now granted, some weapons don't gain much of anything from RC due to their already fast reload, but that is part of the game.

Think of it this way; In realaity, a new recruit that is not very experienced with a gun might take a little longer to reload one, right? While an experienced soldier would have done it many times before and knows little tips and tricks to help them reload faster, where they place said next clip, how they handle it and the ejected clip, etc etc.

RC is like that. someone who doesn't know of it or doesn't know how is the new recruit, and the one who knows how is an experienced soldier, then there's those who are soo good at it that it has almost become second nature to them...they would be hardcore veterans that have been around guns all their lives, and know EVERYTHING there is to know about one.

Make sense like that or no?

[Jayhau]

I find the lack of people who play fighting games disturbing.

F-f-f-foot dive!



How do I hyperlink from an iPhone? Lol 

Modifié par Jayhau, 15 septembre 2012 - 01:02 .

[Xaijin]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Testosticore wrote...

Thank you for your input, Derek. Might I ask for a couple of examples in which games reload canceling occurs?

Right, sorry, I should have specified animation cancelling.  They are more common in games like Street Fighter or other similar series.  Corey's arguement is that this type of action gives the player more control over how his / her character acts.

Cheers



Edited for poor typing

Killing Floor, UT3 and AvP 2 and even CS:S rely rather heavily on canceling, and as a former pro fighting game player turned dev, it didn't take long to fiddle around and find it.

[rollblows]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

No. You're just jelly because you can't do it properly on your FailBox 360.

dont know if trolling....
and yes we can do it on ps3 and 360 
oh and haha mass effect started on 360 so you have no room to talk 

people like you are why we hate pc gamers

[SavagelyEpic]

bnm73 wrote...

StrawHatMoose wrote...

No. Devs have said it is A feature. I'm glad to know you are ignorant.

By that logic, anything that was overlooked by the devleopers is a "feature."   the Vanguard glitch is another "feature."  And being able to have infinite missles is another "feature."  /end sarcasm

IMHO, it's not strictly kosher, but it's one of the much milder forms of cheating/rule bending that goes on in ME3 MP, and it's a lot less frustrating than 10 year olds thinking that the missile glitch is what the MP was designed for.

This is why there are explicit parameters in the game's files that control the reload-cancel time window for each weapon since ME2, right? Last time I checked, there were no 'Vanguard glitch parameters' in the game's files.

The vast, overwhelming majority of games have reload-cancelling. It was explicitly stated as a feature even back in the ME2 days. It's rarer to see a game that DOESN'T have reload-cancelling as opposed to a game that does.

This is the worst kind of troll logic I've ever seen. Just as bad as the other guy who said "PPL WHO THINK EAGLES R BAD R ALL REAL-LYF RACISTS". Yes, I'm putting you in that league.

You're kinda dumb.



Also....

Big Naked Wookiee wrote...

In addition to the whole "thermal clips aren't the ammo, the ammo's already in the gun" argument, I found another gem from the codex.


To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable heat sinks known as thermal clips. While organic arms manufacturers were initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained soldier can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second. Faced with superior enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead, and today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Thermal_Clips#Small_Arms_2

I assume the MP soldiers are well-trained.

 


Seriously, are the forums getting so slow we're trying to have reload-cancelling turned into a bannable offense? Worried that other people are going to surpass your glorious throbbing e-peen?

Modifié par SavagelyEpic, 15 septembre 2012 - 01:28 .

[Xaijin]

Odd to note that dodge canceling is perfectly fine but reload canceling is cheating.

Interesting choice of perspectives.

Modifié par Xaijin, 15 septembre 2012 - 01:28 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

Xaijin wrote...

Odd to note that dodge canceling is perfectly fine but reload canceling is cheating.

Interesting choice of perspectives.

Agreed.

One animation cancel is a cheat...while another animation cancel is normal?
Try again.

[OmegaRex]

your argument that reload cancel provides an advantage, thus cheating is pretty laughable.

reload cancel can also be a huge disadvantage if you don't pull it off. so it's also a form of sandbagging right?

high risk high reward. every video game in existence has built in shortcuts. Whether it be shooting games, fighting games, RPGs or puzzle games.

[LostMem0ry]

 Reloads are defined by an add-ammo time I believe. If the devs WANTED to they could match the time exactly to the reload so that it matches the animation. Even Call of Duty has reload cancelling, and  they don't count it as cheating. It's a valid part of any game that has it and it's completely balanced, get to cocky with your timings and you'll do it too early and have to reload again, which in the midst of battle, can get you killed.