197 réponses à ce sujet

[Yajuu Omoi]

LostMem0ry wrote...

 Reloads are defined by an add-ammo time I believe. If the devs WANTED to they could match the time exactly to the reload so that it matches the animation. Even Call of Duty has reload cancelling, and  they don't count it as cheating. It's a valid part of any game that has it and it's completely balanced, get to cocky with your timings and you'll do it too early and have to reload again, which in the midst of battle, can get you killed.

BioWare could've gone the route Bungie did in Halo, they nearly removed the cancel by making it so that the animation started long before the actual rload was registered. ever notice how the ammo in ME3 appears at the beginning of the animation? play Halo, the ammo doesn't appear till the end of it.

They CHOSE to have RC in the game. it is NOT a cheat.

[ZombieGambit]

Most shooters I can think of have some type of reload cancelling either through active reloads like in Gears of War or animation cancelling like in Call of Duty and Battlefield.

As BioWare has said, it's not cheating and it doesn't give an unfair advantage. It's a mechanic that can be used by anyone and exists only to reward more skilled and attentive players.

[LoboFH]

Kenadian wrote...

LoboFH wrote...

Personally I think is a clear "exploit" but the devs said is a feature, so I guess we must live with it.

Personally I think is a bug they don't know or don't want to fix and the word "feature" avoided all the hassle, call me crazy paranoid if you want.

I avoided actively to learn the system, so I never use reload cancel, I like to keep the challenge and a believable experience, and guns need to be reloaded.

It's not a bug, it has been stated multiple times it's in the coalesced file. Animation cancelling is a feature in many, many games. It is meant to give greater control over a character and its movement. How would you like that you can`t take cover or sprint away or use a power because you couldn`t cancel that reload animation? Bet you wouldn't like it. It's not a bug. It's not an exploit. It's a design feature that is working as intended. End of story.

There are tons of games where you can sprint and take cover whenever you want, the reload is cancelled but logically now the weapon is empty and you must reload again, so spare me the jedi mind tricks and the ends of stories.

Modifié par LoboFH, 15 septembre 2012 - 04:50 .

[darkpassenger2342]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

rollblows wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

No. You're just jelly because you can't do it properly on your FailBox 360.

dont know if trolling....
and yes we can do it on ps3 and 360 
oh and haha mass effect started on 360 so you have no room to talk 

people like you are why we hate pc gamers

Problem?

 
this was clearly just a joke people...

[mybudgee]

To imply that the Devs had no knowledge of reload cancelling is akin to implying that Britney Spears had no knowledge of the paperazzi shooting her "basic instinct" move... so totally ridiculous.

Modifié par mybudgee, 15 septembre 2012 - 06:02 .

[darkpassenger2342]

mybudgee wrote...

To imply that the Devs had no knowledge of reload cancelling is akin to implying that Britney Spears had no knowledge of the paperazzi shooting her "basic instinct" move... so totally ridiculous.

so true.

[billpickles]

OmegaRex wrote...

your argument that reload cancel provides an advantage, thus cheating is pretty laughable.

reload cancel can also be a huge disadvantage if you don't pull it off. so it's also a form of sandbagging right?

high risk high reward. every video game in existence has built in shortcuts. Whether it be shooting games, fighting games, RPGs or puzzle games.

Good point.  As someone who is only so-so at reload cancel, I can tell you that it sucks royally to attempt a RC, only to have to start the animation over again because you bricked the timing.  Especially when you're trying to take down a phantom dancing around at close range...

[hawgwild5757]

It's not cheating if it works for everyone. However, it's also not realistic and for some reason it bugs me. I can't "cancel the animation" when I reload a firearm in real life. I can practice and become better and faster, but all the movements are still there.

So I guess that begs the question "Are we playing for the highest score and any exploitation of game mechanics is ok even though they wouldn't exist in real life, or re we playing for the realism?".

So, since this is a space magic game and has nothing in common with real life, I think I'll just have another beer and forget about it.

Modifié par hawgwild5757, 15 septembre 2012 - 06:18 .

[JustinSonic]

 No. I've learned the trick for various classes, and it really doesn't decrease that much time from the normal reload. 

I call this trick just a "skill" trick. If you know how to do it, then it'll take time to master so it can always be pulled off.

:wizard::wizard:

[Yajuu Omoi]

hawgwild5757 wrote...

It's not cheating if it works for everyone. However, it's also not realistic and for some reason it bugs me. I can't "cancel the animation" when I reload a firearm in real life. I can practice and become better and faster, but all the movements are still there.

even though they wouldn't exist in real life, or re we playing for the realism?".

Here's where you're wrong. You're THINKING right, but you're wrong.
You can't speed up a programed animation because you are getting "better at reloading" but you CAN do the next closed thing in a videogame, cancel the animation part way through.
And thats what people do.

They are simply better at reloading.

If, in real life, you were to try and reload too quick and you slipped or jammed the gun...you'd have to start over right? Thats what happens when someone tries to RC and messes up, they have to start over.

Its as close to real life as a timed animation can get.

Modifié par Yajuu Omoi, 15 septembre 2012 - 07:08 .

[OmegaRex]

why are people comparing this to real life?

they aren't using M4A1 or MP5s in Mass Effect and the last time I checked, my friends in the military weren't telling me how awesome the Cerberus Harrier or Claymore are.

[mybudgee]

People compare it to real life (including myself) to compensate for a lack of excitement & interesting debate in their jobs, family & social life

[Arppis]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

Reload cancelling is a game mechanic utilized in a number of different game titles.  The philosophy is that it rewards particularly skilled players for accomplishing the action.

On the surface, it does not seem fair or realistic but it is merely a mechanic like any other.

Suspension of disbelief can be brought into it by saying your particular soldier, adept, infiltrator, or whatever, has learned speed reloading, or whatever, even though the animation does not support it.

It's not something accepted by everyone.  It took me a long time to be convinced by Corey Gaspur that this was a good idea, but he plays a lot of fighting games.

Cheers

Out of curiosity, have you guys/girls ever entertained the idea of having a reload cancel button(or even just pressing reload a second time), as opposed to the current popular method if doing it via medi-gel?

I didn't know animation cancelling was a thing in fighting games, but I'm still part of the "mash buttons wildly until somebody's health bar is empty" crowd =P

There is no intention of having such a button but any custom action performed by the character will cause the animation cancel when used at the right time (e.g. - reload + take cover, reload + dodge, etc.)

Gears of War uses "quick reload" button. Well basicaly it's just pressing the reload button twice, but at right interwalls, if you press it in wrong time reload takes more time. It's a good system, and I'm amazed that other games haven't "borrowed" it.

Modifié par Arppis, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:38 .

[OmegaRex]

because it's not a good system.

you can active reload which gives your shot more damage, which has a pretty big window of opportunity itself. Then you just quick reload, which is pretty much covered by the entire bar.

There is no risk/reward.

[Arppis]

OmegaRex wrote...

because it's not a good system.

you can active reload which gives your shot more damage, which has a pretty big window of opportunity itself. Then you just quick reload, which is pretty much covered by the entire bar.

There is no risk/reward.

You reload faster if you get it right and can just pop right into the action. I've always considered it a great system. Especialy as it gives you something to do with the reload time. Put it in the mechanics and nobody thinks that it's cheating.

Modifié par Arppis, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:59 .

[Sun Tzglyph]

Yes, AND it is Bioware's intent that you can use it.
But you definitely cheat the laws of physics (principle of causality goes to the wastebin in this one), even by ME3 universe standards.
I mean, you'll NEVER read in a ME novel, or you'll NEVER see in the movie the gun being able to fire when you've not finished putting the clip back in.
Wait.
In fact they have infinite magical auto-reloading ammo in many movies.
My bad.

(Edits  :english corrections)

Modifié par fabsmilee, 15 septembre 2012 - 09:08 .

[Ser Reevo Von Bartlesby]

Still trying to find logical thought applied to the argument that 'reload canceling' is a 'glitch'.

It's a form of precise timing with a high risk to reward ratio. If you screw it up in the heat of battle (mistiming, lag, etc), which happens as often as it doesn't, you're screwed in one way or another. If you are arguing that it's not 'realistic' then ponder this - Just because the animation doesn't imply the reload visually happened, it still does, because all of our characters have two hands, and whatever you cancel it with can be done with one hand (or none!) while the other does the reloading.

Calling for the removal of a misunderstood gameplay mechanic based on timing and a lack of an animation is an acceptable position, but you cannot subscribe to this notion unless you are also calling for the removal of medi-gel/ops packs & thermal clips as well.

Personally, I don't have the muscle memory for it and only ever bother to do it very rarely sometimes when I'm on a hot streak with a Drell Adept + Adrenaline Module III.

Either way, there are bigger things that deserve an 8 page thread. Certainly not this.

Space Hugs,
- Mordin

[MikeSlackenerny]

CoD has reload cancelling. It dramatically cut down the reload time on an Intervention for example.

I think I've read somewhere that cancellings were original unintentional (like in Street Fighter 2 you can put in some crazy combos with that) but in a way it does give the game mechanics a bit more depth without compromising the balance of the game too much (ala for example the glitch that involves that rocket).

The first time I learnt about reload cancelling I wasn't a big fan of it neither, but it is very common across many titles across many genres so Mass Effect is not unique to it in anyway.

Modifié par MikeSlackenerny, 15 septembre 2012 - 10:33 .

[kaileena_sands]

 Next topic I expect from OP "Nova cancelling is cheating".

And btw, I don't think reload cancel decreases reload time that much. I've tried it, but I decided that I cannot RC consistently, so I was often left with with no ammo in the barrel, and a Marauder's bullet in my head. So I don't do it. I can see no problem against people who do it though, because faster rate of fire for their weapons = higher chance for me getting my money and completing the mission.

I cannot fathom why someone would bring this as an unfair advantage considering we're not playing PvP. Your teammates' reload cancelling is your advantage, too. 

Modifié par kaileena_sands, 15 septembre 2012 - 11:35 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

kaileena_sands wrote...
I cannot fathom why someone would bring this as an unfair advantage considering we're not playing PvP. Your teammates' reload cancelling is your advantage, too. 

People don't realize that just because there is a scoreboard...doesn't mean you are competing against your team...

[Yajuu Omoi]

Reload Cancelling =/= Cheat.

/Thread

Modifié par Yajuu Omoi, 15 septembre 2012 - 09:30 .

[realgundam]

If you want real life, go join the army or at the very least go play a war game with friends.
If you want video game, play mass effect and stop beggaring