378 réponses à ce sujet

[wizardryforever]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 I'd qualify endings of "Disney" caliber to be ones that are 100% happy. To that end, none of them are. No, not even Synthesis.

In the end, this game is about a war with a formiddable enemy. If you come out unscathed and ride off into the sunset.... well, there's a little dissonance there. Especially for people who want a challenge, and a story that isn't predictable/cliche about how the hero saves the day completely.

That said, I'd say these endings are about ~90% happy, post-EC. There was downside tagged on to all three, but EC otherwise painted a mostly-positive picture about all endings not named Low-EMS Destroy or Refuse.

IMO... the lost 10% is not worth lamenting.

Yeah.  Essentially, a no-downsides ending clashes with the tone of the game, which is quite dark overall.  And yes, making one ending in which there is no downside means that it is automatically a "better" ending for those with a utilitarian mindset.  This implies that they failed to some degree by picking the other endings.  They would need to make all three into "Disney" endings in order to avoid that, and that clashes even more with the tone of the game.

But yes, ^ this guy is right that the EC paints every ending except low-EMS Destroy as largely postive (Refuse is a glorified game over, a willful failure).

[Iakus]

Because apparantly, Bioware thinks gamers nowadays are so jaded and cynical they have to see the protagonist die horribly to feel anything

[Sajuro]

geceka wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

 As one of multiple options, what's the problem with it?

There are 2 major arguments against it, and they conflict with each other.

1 .. Sappy, stupid, no disney ending in war. Hate disney endings.

And

2 .. If you have a golden disney ending, everyone will pick it.

Which is it?

Nothing wrong per se, but you can't deny the fact that the presence of an all-white no-sacrifices ending would greatly diminish the impact of the existing endings. Consider there was a way of saving both Ashley and Kaidan on Virmire – Wouldn't this take away from the impact of that decision as well? Same goes for the endings...

What if there was an option to kill them both?

[Massa FX]

In ME2 you can earn the ending of your choice. The player feels in control of Shepard and seems responsible for life and death of those under her command as well as innocents throughout the galaxy. You can beat the odds if you work hard.

Not so in ME3. There is no victory. There is self sacrifice or murder or blue skies and rainbows or... give up. You cannot earn anything of better value to the player. This makes ME3 more of an adventure game than a roleplaying game. The choices are static, no matter what.

I guess we were spoiled in ME2, and expected an improvement to Suicide mission.

[Dubozz]

Guess disney ending is not artistic. I don't think Bioware will make the same mistake again in future. We got 2 "salvage the ending" DLC already.

[clarkusdarkus]

Because bioware chose not to reward the player with happiness after a trilogy...

But like Taboo keeps mentioning, if u want a happy ending......Headcanon it unfortunately as ridiculous as it is

Ending a trilogy with a conversation with a new character leaving the player lying in rubble clearly proves someone was smoking pot at the table.

[GreyLycanTrope]

o Ventus wrote...

It's not a good story unless the protagonist dies.

--Varric

Lives in destroy which is the most popular so...

[o Ventus]

Greylycantrope wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

It's not a good story unless the protagonist dies.

--Varric

Lives in destroy which is the most popular so...

It was facetious.

[Reorte]

A Disney ending would be Reaper threat gone, no-one hurt, and you know what? No-one has asked for that. Calling something a bit more personally satisfying a "Disney" ending if just a cheap and inaccurate shot from ending supporters. Losses are fine if they make sense and if things can turn out differently if you do them differently - just as they could if you could go back and re-work bits of real life if you did them differently.

Forcing negative consequences and making them inevitable (or at best refusing to follow the more cheerful parts through, such as Shepard in high EMS) is, again, cheap.

So I think those attacking Disney endings are attacking a strawman. If the EC had scenes of devasted planets and a few survivors in grief at finding the dead husk that was their spouse, as well as the "we'll be OK eventually message", there wouldn't be calls for that bit to be changed for being too depressing.

[Henioo]

I wouldn't mind a "disney ending" if my choices led to it.

I would very much mind it if a hapopy ending was just one of three choices, and a guy who just started the series with ME3 could get as good an ending as I did.

Oh, wait, that's exactly what happened.

Modifié par Henioo, 15 septembre 2012 - 04:34 .

[AlanC9]

Henioo wrote...

I wouldn't mind a "disney ending" if my choices led to it.

I would very much mind it if a hapopy ending was just one of three choices, and a guy who just started the series with ME3 could get as good an ending as I did.

Oh, wait, that's exactly what happened.

Actually, I don't think a new ME3 game can get the "breath" ending. Except with MP, of course.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Henioo wrote...

I wouldn't mind a "disney ending" if my choices led to it.

I would very much mind it if a hapopy ending was just one of three choices, and a guy who just started the series with ME3 could get as good an ending as I did.

Oh, wait, that's exactly what happened.

Actually, I don't think a new ME3 game can get the "breath" ending. Except with MP, of course.

the breath scene is not even close to a disney ending either

[Code_R]

Lots of people either die, are enslaved, or get their lives irrevocably altered by force. There is no happy ending.

Disney endings typically have every thing looking up, for a better future. To be particularly Disney style, the villian would also have to be killed by the protagonist in a way that shows them definately gone but not in a graphic death. Harbinger didn't fall from a cliff into an abyss of fire.

Modifié par Code_R, 15 septembre 2012 - 05:21 .

[CINCTuchanka]

Because it would be cheesy.

The EC endings were cheesy enough as it is. But at least they made more sense than the Original Cut and had more variety. I chalk the cheesiness of them to fan pandering, it is clearly against the tone that BioWare originally intended for the endings.

[o Ventus]

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Because it would be cheesy.

The EC endings were cheesy enough as it is. But at least they made more sense than the Original Cut and had more variety. I chalk the cheesiness of them to fan pandering, it is clearly against the tone that BioWare originally intended for the endings.

You say this as if Bioware's original intent was somehow better.

[CroGamer002]

Because it's not artsy.

[Kel Riever]

Nothing is wrong with it, except in emo world.

But the endings aren't awful because they are 'unhappy,' they are awful because their is no choice that matters and the reasoning is atrocious.

[grey_wind]

We already have a Disney ending. It's called Synthesis.
The only reason it fails is because, unlike the writers, the fanbase pretty much realized the fridge horror involved with it, but you can tell it was intended to be the BEST ending.
You honestly can't get anymore disney than you can with Synthesis. Everybody lives, the Reapers learn the value of love and friendship and help fix all the problems they caused, everybody has learned to cooperate and live in some hippie paradise, and now everybody intends to transcend even mortality itself.

[MegaSovereign]

As long as the narrative stands up than it doesn't really matter if the ending is happy or sad.

[CINCTuchanka]

@O Ventus.

Their intent was better, execution less so. I liked the tone of the Original Cut but was baffled by its execution (i.e. no variety, inexplicable jungle planet).

The Extended Cut tried to solve these things with the most cringeworthy of "cinematic" techniques: narration.

Don't get me wrong, the EC is otherwise competent. But I didn't need Hackett saying "Everything we lost will be rebuilt!". It's just cheesy and clearly pandering. They should have stuck withe more bittersweet tone initially and expanded on it. My problem with the Original Cut was never the tone, it was their inability to provide closure within the context of a bittersweet ending.

[o Ventus]

CINCTuchanka wrote...

@O Ventus.

Their intent was better, execution less so. I liked the tone of the Original Cut but was baffled by its execution (i.e. no variety, inexplicable jungle planet).

I'm sorry, but "intragalactic wasteland" (Mac Walters' own words) is not better.

[GreyReaver]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The ending is as happy as you want it to be.

What...?! You obviously have way too overactive imagination, take optimism to the Nth degree and/or don't live in reality.

A person can add/change/delete  the ending all they want for their own headcannon but, that doesn't change BW's bittersweet ending that left people in a variety of negative emotions and thinking WTF?  I base my statements on the overwhelming majority of posts and opinions expressed by gamers here on BSN.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Henioo wrote...
I wouldn't mind a "disney ending" if my choices led to it.

I would very much mind it if a hapopy ending was just one of three choices, and a guy who just started the series with ME3 could get as good an ending as I did.

Oh, wait, that's exactly what happened.

Actually, I don't think a new ME3 game can get the "breath" ending. Except with MP, of course.

the breath scene is not even close to a disney ending either

Shouldn't have quoted Henloo's first paragraph there. My point was that importing a save does make a difference. Also at Rannoch and Tuchanka..