378 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Unrealistic.
2. forgettable.
3. No impact.
4.done way too many times.
5.No growth with characters.
6. No real meaning.

7 optional
8 wanted by many fans
9 classic
10 cathartic
11 emotionally satisfying
12 player agency

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

in post-EC yep still the same from Deus Ex, Refuse from DE:HR

Point to me the choice that puts everyone in a dark age of tech.

Deus EX endings: Destroy, Control, Merge/Synthesis DE:HR, Refuse

ME3: Destroy, Control, Synthesis, Refuse

dark age of tech has nothing to do with it, so stop straw-manning every comment people make

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Unrealistic.
2. forgettable.
3. No impact.
4.done way too many times.
5.No growth with characters.
6. No real meaning.

7 optional
8 wanted by many fans
9 classic
10 cathartic
11 emotionally satisfying
12 player agency

the point of the choices at the end of the game was to bring the player to moral conflict over the choices at hand. Giving the player an easy way out destroys that concept.

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 septembre 2012 - 06:28 .

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

in post-EC yep still the same from Deus Ex, Refuse from DE:HR

Point to me the choice that puts everyone in a dark age of tech.

Deus EX endings: Destroy, Control, Merge/Synthesis DE:HR, Refuse

ME3: Destroy, Control, Synthesis, Refuse

dark age of tech has nothing to do with it, so stop straw-manning every comment people make

Yes it does. The destory option in DEdestroy all technolgy and put everyone in a dark age. That is the differance.

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Because apparantly, Bioware thinks gamers nowadays are so jaded and cynical they have to see the protagonist die horribly to feel anything

So when other games have sad endings it's ok but whne bw does it in a bitter sweet way...It's not?

You didn't actually read the post you quoted, did you?

I did. My post reflex that other games have sad and bitter sweet endings as well. My comment is to counter his Cynicism.

Your counterpoint has nothing at all to do with his original comment. At no point did iakus make any mention of other games and other developers.

 His point is based on pure 
Cynicism. He is basicly saying, it's bad for a dev to think the only way to get to the gamer is with sad endings or bitter sweet endings. I'm just pointing out the devs have had more sucess with having emotionally impacting sad endings in there games more then games with happy endings.

Of course it's based on cynicism.  We were told that our chocies would matter.  That these were "our Shepards" And yet we get herded into pretty much inescapable death.  No choice.  it's like Ghostbusters "Choose the form of the Destructor!"

The only reason I could fathom that Biwoare would put such an ending to an RPG that boasts player agency spanning three games is that they thought nobody would want to see Shepard alive and well at the end.

It is bad for a dev to think a sad ending is the only way.  Or "bittersweet" (which is different fro different people, btw)  What works is letting a player build their own endings.  DAO did it right.  ME3 alienated a whole mess of formerly loyal customers.

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Because apparantly, Bioware thinks gamers nowadays are so jaded and cynical they have to see the protagonist die horribly to feel anything

So when other games have sad endings it's ok but whne bw does it in a bitter sweet way...It's not?

You didn't actually read the post you quoted, did you?

I did. My post reflex that other games have sad and bitter sweet endings as well. My comment is to counter his Cynicism.

Your counterpoint has nothing at all to do with his original comment. At no point did iakus make any mention of other games and other developers.

 His point is based on pure 
Cynicism. He is basicly saying, it's bad for a dev to think the only way to get to the gamer is with sad endings or bitter sweet endings. I'm just pointing out the devs have had more sucess with having emotionally impacting sad endings in there games more then games with happy endings.

Of course it's based on cynicism.  We were told that our chocies would matter.  That these were "our Shepards" And yet we get herded into pretty much inescapable death.  No choice.  it's like Ghostbusters "Choose the form of the Destructor!"

The only reason I could fathom that Biwoare would put such an ending to an RPG that boasts player agency spanning three games is that they thought nobody would want to see Shepard alive and well at the end.

It is bad for a dev to think a sad ending is the only way.  Or "bittersweet" (which is different fro different people, btw)  What works is letting a player build their own endings.  DAO did it right.  ME3 alienated a whole mess of formerly loyal customers.

But are choice do matter. Every choice we makes effects the condition of the crucible. The condition of the crucible effect the chioces we have at the end. Shepard can even live in one of the choices if the crucible comdition is stable enough. How is it we have no choice or that it does not matter. It not the fact that the choices don't matter, it the fact that you smple don't like the choices given to you.
In the end of the game we stop the reaper  and we have 3 choices that dramaticl change the ME universe differently. Added based on the condition of the crucible, 2 of the choices in the end ofthe game change radically.
I can see how choice does not matter. Moraly does not matter but choice does.

Also, the point of the choice in the end of the game is to bring the player into moral conflict over the choices at hand. BW has do this may time before in ME and it'S not out of place to do it at the end. An easy way out destories that concept.

And don't even bring up DA:O into this.....You don't know if you had a true happy ending yet. You let a demon child to be born if you live in DA:O.  The conciquances of that choice has not caught up to you yet in DA if you lived. 

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 septembre 2012 - 06:42 .

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

in post-EC yep still the same from Deus Ex, Refuse from DE:HR

Point to me the choice that puts everyone in a dark age of tech.

Deus EX endings: Destroy, Control, Merge/Synthesis DE:HR, Refuse

ME3: Destroy, Control, Synthesis, Refuse

dark age of tech has nothing to do with it, so stop straw-manning every comment people make

Yes it does. The destory option in DEdestroy all technolgy and put everyone in a dark age. That is the differance.

once again its a straw-mann because the endings are still copies of the Deus Ex endings

[KENNY4753]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

in post-EC yep still the same from Deus Ex, Refuse from DE:HR

Point to me the choice that puts everyone in a dark age of tech.

Deus EX endings: Destroy, Control, Merge/Synthesis DE:HR, Refuse

ME3: Destroy, Control, Synthesis, Refuse

dark age of tech has nothing to do with it, so stop straw-manning every comment people make

Yes it does. The destory option in DEdestroy all technolgy and put everyone in a dark age. That is the differance.

Well Destroy in ME oringinally destroyed the relays causing a dark age/wasteland

[dreman9999]

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

in post-EC yep still the same from Deus Ex, Refuse from DE:HR

Point to me the choice that puts everyone in a dark age of tech.

Deus EX endings: Destroy, Control, Merge/Synthesis DE:HR, Refuse

ME3: Destroy, Control, Synthesis, Refuse

dark age of tech has nothing to do with it, so stop straw-manning every comment people make

Yes it does. The destory option in DEdestroy all technolgy and put everyone in a dark age. That is the differance.

Well Destroy in ME oringinally destroyed the relays causing a dark age/wasteland

As I said before. I'm taking about post -ec.

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

But are choice do matter. Every choice we makes effects the condition of the crucible. The condition of the crucible effect the chioces we have at the end. Shepard can even live in one of the choices if the crucible comdition is stable enough. How is it we have no choice or that it does not matter. It not the fact that the choices don't matter, it the fact that you smple don't like the choices given to you.
In the end of the game we stop the reaper  and we have 3 choices that dramaticl change the ME universe differently. Added based on the condition of the crucible, 2 of the choices in the end ofthe game change radically.
I can see how choice does not matter. Moraly does not matter but choice does.

Also, the point of the choice in the end of the game is to bring the player into moral conflict over the choices at hand. BW has do this may time before in ME and it'S not out of place to do it at the end. An easy way out destories that concept.

And don't even bring up DA:O into this.....You don't no if you had a true happy ending yet. You let a demon child to be born if you live in DA:O.  The conciquances of that choice has not caught up to you yet in DA if you lived. 

The Crucible is ALWAYS finished by the end. Your assets have nothing to do with it.

Bioware is actually pretty bad at doing legitimately "tough" moral decisions. Even then, the "tough" decisions aren't in ME. Hell, in DA:O alone I've pondered longer on the elves/werewolf decision than I have in regards to anything in ME. Not saying that Bioware can't do them, they just aren't good at it.

Also, the child born from Morrigan's ritual in DA:O is not a demon. Never mind that you can still live in DA:O even without doing the ritual.

[SpamBot2000]

The Disney ending is terrible! What's with the circuitry on tree leaves and green eyes everywhere?

Oh... you mean a WIN ending... Nothing wrong with that that I can see.

[KENNY4753]

dreman9999 wrote...
But are choice do matter. Every choice we makes effects the condition of the crucible. The condition of the crucible effect the chioces we have at the end. Shepard can even live in one of the choices if the crucible comdition is stable enough. How is it we have no choice or that it does not matter. It not the fact that the choices don't matter, it the fact that you smple don't like the choices given to you.
In the end of the game we stop the reaper  and we have 3 choices that dramaticl change the ME universe differently. Added based on the condition of the crucible, 2 of the choices in the end ofthe game change radically.
I can see how choice does not matter. Moraly does not matter but choice does.

Also, the point of the choice in the end of the game is to bring the player into moral conflict over the choices at hand. BW has do this may time before in ME and it'S not out of place to do it at the end. An easy way out destories that concept.

And don't even bring up DA:O into this.....You don't know if you had a true happy ending yet. You let a demon child to be born if you live in DA:O.  The conciquances of that choice has not caught up to you yet in DA if you lived. 

The crucible is always completed and does the function it is supposed to in the end, stop the reaper cycle. I fail to see how all of our choices change that. Sure you may unlock different colors with a higher EMS score but just doing all the priority missions gets you almost all the points you need for all the endings. The choices ultimatly do nothing for the crucible

The moral conflict arguement again!!!! That is a pro-enders favorite thing to use.!!! If they really wanted to involve morals to the endings they failed miserably. I have argued with you on multiple threads about it so I don't feel like turning this into another moral conflict thread.

I agree that we don't know how the whole god baby thing will play out. I'm guessing it won't really matter because it wasn't a mandatory thing to do so they won't make it a main plot point, but that's off topic.

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But are choice do matter. Every choice we makes effects the condition of the crucible. The condition of the crucible effect the chioces we have at the end. Shepard can even live in one of the choices if the crucible comdition is stable enough. How is it we have no choice or that it does not matter. It not the fact that the choices don't matter, it the fact that you smple don't like the choices given to you.
In the end of the game we stop the reaper  and we have 3 choices that dramaticl change the ME universe differently. Added based on the condition of the crucible, 2 of the choices in the end ofthe game change radically.
I can see how choice does not matter. Moraly does not matter but choice does.

Also, the point of the choice in the end of the game is to bring the player into moral conflict over the choices at hand. BW has do this may time before in ME and it'S not out of place to do it at the end. An easy way out destories that concept.

And don't even bring up DA:O into this.....You don't no if you had a true happy ending yet. You let a demon child to be born if you live in DA:O.  The conciquances of that choice has not caught up to you yet in DA if you lived. 

The Crucible is ALWAYS finished by the end. Your assets have nothing to do with it.

Bioware is actually pretty bad at doing legitimately "tough" moral decisions. Even then, the "tough" decisions aren't in ME. Hell, in DA:O alone I've pondered longer on the elves/werewolf decision than I have in regards to anything in ME. Not saying that Bioware can't do them, they just aren't good at it.

Also, the child born from Morrigan's ritual in DA:O is not a demon. Never mind that you can still live in DA:O even without doing the ritual.

But what the condistion of the crucible is when It's parked  depends on you ems. If it low, that means the crucible get badly damage and it destories most of the galaexy. 

That means you choices still matter.

Add the fact that your so upset over the ec end does means you in moral conflict over the endings. Morality is relitive. Not every choice will effect ever person the same way.

And the child in DA:O has a soul of an old god in it. The would mean it would be simular to Leto II in Children of dune.
It many not be inheritly evil but that means the child will be astoundenly powerful. You better hope it's not evil.
The point still stands that the consiquance of the choice of living in the end of DA:O has yet to arrive.

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 septembre 2012 - 07:06 .

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...
But are choice do matter. Every choice we makes effects the condition of the crucible. The condition of the crucible effect the chioces we have at the end. Shepard can even live in one of the choices if the crucible comdition is stable enough. How is it we have no choice or that it does not matter. It not the fact that the choices don't matter, it the fact that you smple don't like the choices given to you.
In the end of the game we stop the reaper  and we have 3 choices that dramaticl change the ME universe differently. Added based on the condition of the crucible, 2 of the choices in the end ofthe game change radically.
I can see how choice does not matter. Moraly does not matter but choice does.

Also, the point of the choice in the end of the game is to bring the player into moral conflict over the choices at hand. BW has do this may time before in ME and it'S not out of place to do it at the end. An easy way out destories that concept.

And don't even bring up DA:O into this.....You don't know if you had a true happy ending yet. You let a demon child to be born if you live in DA:O.  The conciquances of that choice has not caught up to you yet in DA if you lived. 

Funny, my most recent DAO run had Alistair dying while slaying the archdemon. The Warden lived to go on and have further adventures with Leliana.  Where did a demon child fit into that?

Where Shepard's fate is concerned, though...no, your chocies don't matter at all.  Unless you think being burned, electrocuted or disintigrated count as "choices"   The one exception there is more easter egg than anything else, only hinting that things might be different.

Sure other games like Red Dead Redemption or Alan Wake might have sad or bittersweet stroies.  But they don't pretend that you have any choice in the matter.

[dreman9999]

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But are choice do matter. Every choice we makes effects the condition of the crucible. The condition of the crucible effect the chioces we have at the end. Shepard can even live in one of the choices if the crucible comdition is stable enough. How is it we have no choice or that it does not matter. It not the fact that the choices don't matter, it the fact that you smple don't like the choices given to you.
In the end of the game we stop the reaper  and we have 3 choices that dramaticl change the ME universe differently. Added based on the condition of the crucible, 2 of the choices in the end ofthe game change radically.
I can see how choice does not matter. Moraly does not matter but choice does.

Also, the point of the choice in the end of the game is to bring the player into moral conflict over the choices at hand. BW has do this may time before in ME and it'S not out of place to do it at the end. An easy way out destories that concept.

And don't even bring up DA:O into this.....You don't know if you had a true happy ending yet. You let a demon child to be born if you live in DA:O.  The conciquances of that choice has not caught up to you yet in DA if you lived. 

The crucible is always completed and does the function it is supposed to in the end, stop the reaper cycle. I fail to see how all of our choices change that. Sure you may unlock different colors with a higher EMS score but just doing all the priority missions gets you almost all the points you need for all the endings. The choices ultimatly do nothing for the crucible

The moral conflict arguement again!!!! That is a pro-enders favorite thing to use.!!! If they really wanted to involve morals to the endings they failed miserably. I have argued with you on multiple threads about it so I don't feel like turning this into another moral conflict thread.

I agree that we don't know how the whole god baby thing will play out. I'm guessing it won't really matter because it wasn't a mandatory thing to do so they won't make it a main plot point, but that's off topic.

The crucible does differnt thing based on EMS. That alone means choice matters. The differnce comes to what choices you have at the end, what they do and if one of them lets you live. If having too low of an ems score means the use of the crucible means most of the galexy is destoryed , then that means choice matters.

It the lower the ems score is means the higher the damge to the cricible is when it's parked. The more damaged it is the less stuff it can do and the more destructive the results of the choices are.

Since ems is controled by you choices. That means choice do matter.

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But are choice do matter. Every choice we makes effects the condition of the crucible. The condition of the crucible effect the chioces we have at the end. Shepard can even live in one of the choices if the crucible comdition is stable enough. How is it we have no choice or that it does not matter. It not the fact that the choices don't matter, it the fact that you smple don't like the choices given to you.
In the end of the game we stop the reaper  and we have 3 choices that dramaticl change the ME universe differently. Added based on the condition of the crucible, 2 of the choices in the end ofthe game change radically.
I can see how choice does not matter. Moraly does not matter but choice does.

Also, the point of the choice in the end of the game is to bring the player into moral conflict over the choices at hand. BW has do this may time before in ME and it'S not out of place to do it at the end. An easy way out destories that concept.

And don't even bring up DA:O into this.....You don't know if you had a true happy ending yet. You let a demon child to be born if you live in DA:O.  The conciquances of that choice has not caught up to you yet in DA if you lived. 

Funny, my most recent DAO run had Alistair dying while slaying the archdemon. The Warden lived to go on and have further adventures with Leliana.  Where did a demon child fit into that?

Where Shepard's fate is concerned, though...no, your chocies don't matter at all.  Unless you think being burned, electrocuted or disintigrated count as "choices"   The one exception there is more easter egg than anything else, only hinting that things might be different.

Sure other games like Red Dead Redemption or Alan Wake might have sad or bittersweet stroies.  But they don't pretend that you have any choice in the matter.

That's reguarding the fate of Shepard and you do have one choice the has him live. The fate of the galexy is vastly different. You choices vary based on EMS from blowing up most of the universe to destroy the reapers at low ems, to serviving and killing the reapers and all synthetic life in High ems. Also, in DA, there most like be a conciquece of having Alistar die as well. It just has not caught up to you yet.

[KENNY4753]

dreman9999 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But are choice do matter. Every choice we makes effects the condition of the crucible. The condition of the crucible effect the chioces we have at the end. Shepard can even live in one of the choices if the crucible comdition is stable enough. How is it we have no choice or that it does not matter. It not the fact that the choices don't matter, it the fact that you smple don't like the choices given to you.
In the end of the game we stop the reaper  and we have 3 choices that dramaticl change the ME universe differently. Added based on the condition of the crucible, 2 of the choices in the end ofthe game change radically.
I can see how choice does not matter. Moraly does not matter but choice does.

Also, the point of the choice in the end of the game is to bring the player into moral conflict over the choices at hand. BW has do this may time before in ME and it'S not out of place to do it at the end. An easy way out destories that concept.

And don't even bring up DA:O into this.....You don't know if you had a true happy ending yet. You let a demon child to be born if you live in DA:O.  The conciquances of that choice has not caught up to you yet in DA if you lived. 

The crucible is always completed and does the function it is supposed to in the end, stop the reaper cycle. I fail to see how all of our choices change that. Sure you may unlock different colors with a higher EMS score but just doing all the priority missions gets you almost all the points you need for all the endings. The choices ultimatly do nothing for the crucible

The moral conflict arguement again!!!! That is a pro-enders favorite thing to use.!!! If they really wanted to involve morals to the endings they failed miserably. I have argued with you on multiple threads about it so I don't feel like turning this into another moral conflict thread.

I agree that we don't know how the whole god baby thing will play out. I'm guessing it won't really matter because it wasn't a mandatory thing to do so they won't make it a main plot point, but that's off topic.

The crucible does differnt thing based on EMS. That alone means choice matters. The differnce comes to what choices you have at the end, what they do and if one of them lets you live. If having too low of an ems score means the use of the crucible means most of the galexy is destoryed , then that means choice matters.

It the lower the ems score is means the higher the damge to the cricible is when it's parked. The more damaged it is the less stuff it can do and the more destructive the results of the choices are.

Since ems is controled by you choices. That means choice do matter.

But what I'm saying is just doing the priority missions and getting the automatic War Assets that come with them no matter what you decide in the missions you get very close to getting the 3100 need for the "happy ending" just go do fetch quests and planet scanning which there are no choices involved will put you over the 3100 mark or damn close to it. It didn't matter whether you gave the Krogan the cure or not you still ge tthe EMS points. The differences between the choices is made up through fetch quests and scanning random planets. So the choices you make really do nothing to change it. 

Modifié par KENNY4753, 15 septembre 2012 - 07:10 .

[dreman9999]

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But are choice do matter. Every choice we makes effects the condition of the crucible. The condition of the crucible effect the chioces we have at the end. Shepard can even live in one of the choices if the crucible comdition is stable enough. How is it we have no choice or that it does not matter. It not the fact that the choices don't matter, it the fact that you smple don't like the choices given to you.
In the end of the game we stop the reaper  and we have 3 choices that dramaticl change the ME universe differently. Added based on the condition of the crucible, 2 of the choices in the end ofthe game change radically.
I can see how choice does not matter. Moraly does not matter but choice does.

Also, the point of the choice in the end of the game is to bring the player into moral conflict over the choices at hand. BW has do this may time before in ME and it'S not out of place to do it at the end. An easy way out destories that concept.

And don't even bring up DA:O into this.....You don't know if you had a true happy ending yet. You let a demon child to be born if you live in DA:O.  The conciquances of that choice has not caught up to you yet in DA if you lived. 

The crucible is always completed and does the function it is supposed to in the end, stop the reaper cycle. I fail to see how all of our choices change that. Sure you may unlock different colors with a higher EMS score but just doing all the priority missions gets you almost all the points you need for all the endings. The choices ultimatly do nothing for the crucible

The moral conflict arguement again!!!! That is a pro-enders favorite thing to use.!!! If they really wanted to involve morals to the endings they failed miserably. I have argued with you on multiple threads about it so I don't feel like turning this into another moral conflict thread.

I agree that we don't know how the whole god baby thing will play out. I'm guessing it won't really matter because it wasn't a mandatory thing to do so they won't make it a main plot point, but that's off topic.

The crucible does differnt thing based on EMS. That alone means choice matters. The differnce comes to what choices you have at the end, what they do and if one of them lets you live. If having too low of an ems score means the use of the crucible means most of the galexy is destoryed , then that means choice matters.

It the lower the ems score is means the higher the damge to the cricible is when it's parked. The more damaged it is the less stuff it can do and the more destructive the results of the choices are.

Since ems is controled by you choices. That means choice do matter.

But what I'm saying is just doing the priority missions and getting the automatic War Assets that come with them no matter what you decide in the missions you get very close to getting the 3100 need for the "happy ending" just go do fetch quests and planet scanning which there are no choices involved will put you over the 3100 mark or damn close to it. It didn't matter whether you gave the Krogan the cure or not you still ge tthe EMS points. The differences between the choices is made up through fetch quests and scanning random planets. So the choices you make really do nothing to change it. 

1. That just mean that there is not just one way to get the best ending. That mean both Paragon and renegade players can get the best ending and are not locked into doing things one way or playing one way to get the best ending.

2. The choices you do on the missing still vary and how much ems point still very based on past choices and current choices.
Destorying the genophage may cripple how much ems you get in tuchancka, but having Wrex dead would let you have other means to get thos lost points.

Having more then one way to get ems does not mean less choice or choices don't matter. It just means you have more freedom to get the ems points as you see fit.'
You just not stuck to just one path.

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 septembre 2012 - 07:17 .

[WhiteKnyght]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

in post-EC yep still the same from Deus Ex, Refuse from DE:HR

Point to me the choice that puts everyone in a dark age of tech.

Deus EX endings: Destroy, Control, Merge/Synthesis DE:HR, Refuse

ME3: Destroy, Control, Synthesis, Refuse

dark age of tech has nothing to do with it, so stop straw-manning every comment people make

Yes it does. The destory option in DEdestroy all technolgy and put everyone in a dark age. That is the differance.

"Technology you rely on will be affected. But those who survive will have little difficulty repairing the damage."

You only get a dark age if you have moderately low EMS. If you're high, the Damage is minimal. As this quote says.

Best example shown is the Normandy itself. Low EMS, it's a wreck and everyone is dead. Moderate, it's damaged and EC shows its reconstruction in the last scene. High EMS, it's fine and takes off after they decide whether or not to put Shepard's plate on the memorial wall.

[dreman9999]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

in post-EC yep still the same from Deus Ex, Refuse from DE:HR

Point to me the choice that puts everyone in a dark age of tech.

Deus EX endings: Destroy, Control, Merge/Synthesis DE:HR, Refuse

ME3: Destroy, Control, Synthesis, Refuse

dark age of tech has nothing to do with it, so stop straw-manning every comment people make

Yes it does. The destory option in DEdestroy all technolgy and put everyone in a dark age. That is the differance.

"Technology you rely on will be affected. But those who survive will have little difficulty repairing the damage."

You only get a dark age if you have moderately low EMS. If you're high, the Damage is minimal. As this quote says.

Best example shown is the Normandy itself. Low EMS, it's a wreck and everyone is dead. Moderate, it's damaged and EC shows its reconstruction in the last scene. High EMS, it's fine and takes off after they decide whether or not to put Shepard's plate on the memorial wall.

But that just means the ending do vary.

[WhiteKnyght]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

in post-EC yep still the same from Deus Ex, Refuse from DE:HR

Point to me the choice that puts everyone in a dark age of tech.

Deus EX endings: Destroy, Control, Merge/Synthesis DE:HR, Refuse

ME3: Destroy, Control, Synthesis, Refuse

dark age of tech has nothing to do with it, so stop straw-manning every comment people make

Yes it does. The destory option in DEdestroy all technolgy and put everyone in a dark age. That is the differance.

"Technology you rely on will be affected. But those who survive will have little difficulty repairing the damage."

You only get a dark age if you have moderately low EMS. If you're high, the Damage is minimal. As this quote says.

Best example shown is the Normandy itself. Low EMS, it's a wreck and everyone is dead. Moderate, it's damaged and EC shows its reconstruction in the last scene. High EMS, it's fine and takes off after they decide whether or not to put Shepard's plate on the memorial wall.

But that just means the ending do vary.

Exactly. I never played Deus Ex, but I'm pretty sure all of its ending choices just have one outcome. Mass Effect 3's have 7 outcomes, not including the fates of the races shown in Extended Cut.

Destroy has four: Galacitic destruction followed by dark age. Simple dark age with plenty of survivors who can build new technology. Minimal damage. And damage so minimal that Shepard himself is able to pull through.

Control has two. Some damage and no damage

Synthesis has one since it's arguably the highest EMS option to unlock.

And the variable outcomes correlate to the physical condition of the Crucible when you activate it.

War assets just relate to how well you do against the reapers and how well you can protect the Crucible. Social issues like the Genophage and the resolution of the Quarian Geth conflict were resolved during the game itself, and that was where past choices mattered. The Extended Cut was added because people wanted a deeper sense of closure for those events.

[KENNY4753]

dreman9999 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But are choice do matter. Every choice we makes effects the condition of the crucible. The condition of the crucible effect the chioces we have at the end. Shepard can even live in one of the choices if the crucible comdition is stable enough. How is it we have no choice or that it does not matter. It not the fact that the choices don't matter, it the fact that you smple don't like the choices given to you.
In the end of the game we stop the reaper  and we have 3 choices that dramaticl change the ME universe differently. Added based on the condition of the crucible, 2 of the choices in the end ofthe game change radically.
I can see how choice does not matter. Moraly does not matter but choice does.

Also, the point of the choice in the end of the game is to bring the player into moral conflict over the choices at hand. BW has do this may time before in ME and it'S not out of place to do it at the end. An easy way out destories that concept.

And don't even bring up DA:O into this.....You don't know if you had a true happy ending yet. You let a demon child to be born if you live in DA:O.  The conciquances of that choice has not caught up to you yet in DA if you lived. 

The crucible is always completed and does the function it is supposed to in the end, stop the reaper cycle. I fail to see how all of our choices change that. Sure you may unlock different colors with a higher EMS score but just doing all the priority missions gets you almost all the points you need for all the endings. The choices ultimatly do nothing for the crucible

The moral conflict arguement again!!!! That is a pro-enders favorite thing to use.!!! If they really wanted to involve morals to the endings they failed miserably. I have argued with you on multiple threads about it so I don't feel like turning this into another moral conflict thread.

I agree that we don't know how the whole god baby thing will play out. I'm guessing it won't really matter because it wasn't a mandatory thing to do so they won't make it a main plot point, but that's off topic.

The crucible does differnt thing based on EMS. That alone means choice matters. The differnce comes to what choices you have at the end, what they do and if one of them lets you live. If having too low of an ems score means the use of the crucible means most of the galexy is destoryed , then that means choice matters.

It the lower the ems score is means the higher the damge to the cricible is when it's parked. The more damaged it is the less stuff it can do and the more destructive the results of the choices are.

Since ems is controled by you choices. That means choice do matter.

But what I'm saying is just doing the priority missions and getting the automatic War Assets that come with them no matter what you decide in the missions you get very close to getting the 3100 need for the "happy ending" just go do fetch quests and planet scanning which there are no choices involved will put you over the 3100 mark or damn close to it. It didn't matter whether you gave the Krogan the cure or not you still ge tthe EMS points. The differences between the choices is made up through fetch quests and scanning random planets. So the choices you make really do nothing to change it. 

1. That just mean that there is not just one way to get the best ending. That mean both Paragon and renegade players can get the best ending and are not locked into doing things one way or playing one way to get the best ending.

2. The choices you do on the missing still vary and how much ems point still very based on past choices and current choices.
Destorying the genophage may cripple how much ems you get in tuchancka, but having Wrex dead would let you have other means to get thos lost points.

Having more then one way to get ems does not mean less choice or choices don't matter. It just means you have more freedom to get the ems points as you see fit.'
You just not stuck to just one path.

1. Yes there is more than 1 way to get it but no matter which way you do it you still get the same ending. No change in it. The same colored explosion, Joker still crashers on that planet in the mddle of nowhere, there is still the scene at the memorial wall, relays still get damaged, etc. Your choices don't change the endings, you still get the same cutscenes as another person with the same EMS through different choices on missions. and I don't mean exactly the same EMS. Both have more than enough to get all the endings but through different means.

2. Yes the choices change the amount of EMS points you get from the mission but you can easily make that up by scanning planets and doing fetch quests. You may not have the same EMS in one section but you can easily have the same EMS overall. 

Modifié par KENNY4753, 15 septembre 2012 - 07:30 .

[dreman9999]

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But are choice do matter. Every choice we makes effects the condition of the crucible. The condition of the crucible effect the chioces we have at the end. Shepard can even live in one of the choices if the crucible comdition is stable enough. How is it we have no choice or that it does not matter. It not the fact that the choices don't matter, it the fact that you smple don't like the choices given to you.
In the end of the game we stop the reaper  and we have 3 choices that dramaticl change the ME universe differently. Added based on the condition of the crucible, 2 of the choices in the end ofthe game change radically.
I can see how choice does not matter. Moraly does not matter but choice does.

Also, the point of the choice in the end of the game is to bring the player into moral conflict over the choices at hand. BW has do this may time before in ME and it'S not out of place to do it at the end. An easy way out destories that concept.

And don't even bring up DA:O into this.....You don't know if you had a true happy ending yet. You let a demon child to be born if you live in DA:O.  The conciquances of that choice has not caught up to you yet in DA if you lived. 

The crucible is always completed and does the function it is supposed to in the end, stop the reaper cycle. I fail to see how all of our choices change that. Sure you may unlock different colors with a higher EMS score but just doing all the priority missions gets you almost all the points you need for all the endings. The choices ultimatly do nothing for the crucible

The moral conflict arguement again!!!! That is a pro-enders favorite thing to use.!!! If they really wanted to involve morals to the endings they failed miserably. I have argued with you on multiple threads about it so I don't feel like turning this into another moral conflict thread.

I agree that we don't know how the whole god baby thing will play out. I'm guessing it won't really matter because it wasn't a mandatory thing to do so they won't make it a main plot point, but that's off topic.

The crucible does differnt thing based on EMS. That alone means choice matters. The differnce comes to what choices you have at the end, what they do and if one of them lets you live. If having too low of an ems score means the use of the crucible means most of the galexy is destoryed , then that means choice matters.

It the lower the ems score is means the higher the damge to the cricible is when it's parked. The more damaged it is the less stuff it can do and the more destructive the results of the choices are.

Since ems is controled by you choices. That means choice do matter.

But what I'm saying is just doing the priority missions and getting the automatic War Assets that come with them no matter what you decide in the missions you get very close to getting the 3100 need for the "happy ending" just go do fetch quests and planet scanning which there are no choices involved will put you over the 3100 mark or damn close to it. It didn't matter whether you gave the Krogan the cure or not you still ge tthe EMS points. The differences between the choices is made up through fetch quests and scanning random planets. So the choices you make really do nothing to change it. 

1. That just mean that there is not just one way to get the best ending. That mean both Paragon and renegade players can get the best ending and are not locked into doing things one way or playing one way to get the best ending.

2. The choices you do on the missing still vary and how much ems point still very based on past choices and current choices.
Destorying the genophage may cripple how much ems you get in tuchancka, but having Wrex dead would let you have other means to get thos lost points.

Having more then one way to get ems does not mean less choice or choices don't matter. It just means you have more freedom to get the ems points as you see fit.'
You just not stuck to just one path.

1. Yes there is more than 1 way to get it but no matter which way you do it you still get the same ending. No change in it. The same colored explosion, Joker still crashers on that planet in the mddle of nowhere, there is still the scene at the memorial wall, relays still get damaged, etc. Your choices don't change the endings, you still get the same cutscenes as another person with the same EMS through different choices on missions. and I don't mean exactly the same EMS. Both have more than enough to get all the endings but through different means.

2. Yes the choices change the amount of EMS points you get from the mission but you can easily make that up by scanning planets and doing fetch quests. You may not have the same EMS in one section but you can easily have the same EMS overall. 

1. Have the crucible be made is not the same ending. You have 4 vartly different endings that are all based on the condition of the crucible. Saying the crucible is made means only one ending is like saying having the face the archdemon in dragon age in one ending only. Or even have to attack the collector base in ME2 means only one ending. That's no the case at all. We have 4 choices to make that have 4 different endings with to the vary. It  not he same ending.

2. But it does matter it there is other ways to get ems. That does nto dicount the choices you make, that just mean you have more then one path to get to your results. 

[dreman9999]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

in post-EC yep still the same from Deus Ex, Refuse from DE:HR

Point to me the choice that puts everyone in a dark age of tech.

Deus EX endings: Destroy, Control, Merge/Synthesis DE:HR, Refuse

ME3: Destroy, Control, Synthesis, Refuse

dark age of tech has nothing to do with it, so stop straw-manning every comment people make

Yes it does. The destory option in DEdestroy all technolgy and put everyone in a dark age. That is the differance.

"Technology you rely on will be affected. But those who survive will have little difficulty repairing the damage."

You only get a dark age if you have moderately low EMS. If you're high, the Damage is minimal. As this quote says.

Best example shown is the Normandy itself. Low EMS, it's a wreck and everyone is dead. Moderate, it's damaged and EC shows its reconstruction in the last scene. High EMS, it's fine and takes off after they decide whether or not to put Shepard's plate on the memorial wall.

But that just means the ending do vary.

Exactly. I never played Deus Ex, but I'm pretty sure all of its ending choices just have one outcome. Mass Effect 3's have 7 outcomes, not including the fates of the races shown in Extended Cut.

Destroy has four: Galacitic destruction followed by dark age. Simple dark age with plenty of survivors who can build new technology. Minimal damage. And damage so minimal that Shepard himself is able to pull through.

Control has two. Some damage and no damage

Synthesis has one since it's arguably the highest EMS option to unlock.

And the variable outcomes correlate to the physical condition of the Crucible when you activate it.

War assets just relate to how well you do against the reapers and how well you can protect the Crucible. Social issues like the Genophage and the resolution of the Quarian Geth conflict were resolved during the game itself, and that was where past choices mattered. The Extended Cut was added because people wanted a deeper sense of closure for those events.

Thank you. That's my point.

[Ridwan]

Nothing wrong with a happy ending, it's what the people want after all.

Cue the "You don't speak for me! I happen to enjoy bittersweet grim dark endings, blabla [insert COD insult, cause it's the cheapest way to try and come across as an RPG fan] and so on and so on".

Modifié par M25105, 15 septembre 2012 - 07:42 .