378 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

ShepnTali wrote...
Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Yep. The worst thing about ME2's design.

[KENNY4753]

ShepnTali wrote...

So no, there's nothing wrong with a golden ending based on how you work it.


Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Exactly. The whole way thorugh ME2 you get told that it's a suicide mission and a one-way trip, even the squadmates tell you that but you can survive with everybody alive. So why can't we have a conventional victory in ME3. We were told that it would be impossible and it would be suicide to try but Shepard has beaten the odds multiple times already.

[o Ventus]

AlanC9 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...
Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Yep. The worst thing about ME2's design.

Yeah, how dare they give us an option to get everybody out alive if we make the right choices.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...
Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Yep. The worst thing about ME2's design.

Not really.

Sur ethe choices could have been harder, but wise choices and preparation should be rewarded with good outcomes.

Arbitrary tragedy be avoided whenever possible.

[AresKeith]

o Ventus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...
Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Yep. The worst thing about ME2's design.

Yeah, how dare they give us an option to get everybody out alive if we make the right choices.

and shame on us for using the Squadmates who works best in those areas during the mission

[Chaotic-Fusion]

o Ventus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...
Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Yep. The worst thing about ME2's design.

Yeah, how dare they give us an option to get everybody out alive if we make the right choices.

At least with ME3 Bioware finally learned that true art is angsty. Let's hope they release a patch for ME2 were everyone but Jacob automatically dies.

[ShepnTali]

AlanC9 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...
Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Yep. The worst thing about ME2's design.

Well, we know that's strictly opinion. We also know it was reasonable to think Bioware wouldn't change the rules.

And this constant tearing down of ME2 to defend ME3 by some makes me wonder why they'd bother with the latter, with all the disappointments of ME2.

[Mr.House]

o Ventus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...
Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Yep. The worst thing about ME2's design.

Yeah, how dare they give us an option to get everybody out alive if we make the right choices.

At least make it hard to keep everyone alive, it's so easy it's sad. It's harder to kill off the whole squad then it is to keep everyone alive, that's just bad...

Then we have ME3 that just ignores the whole concept instead of improving on it.

[AresKeith]

Mr.House wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...
Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Yep. The worst thing about ME2's design.

Yeah, how dare they give us an option to get everybody out alive if we make the right choices.

At least make it hard to keep everyone alive, it's so easy it's sad. It's harder to kill off the whole squad then it is to keep everyone alive, that's just bad...

Then we have ME3 that just ignores the whole concept instead of improving on it.

I admit Bioware should have made the suicide mission more harder, but I do like the fact that we can make sure everyone survives

[Dharvy]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dharvy wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dharvy wrote...

@Dreman I understand where you're coming from but what they are trying to say is not that your choices don't matter at all, its just that your choices became just some number and are not really relative to their effect. The choices just boils down to collecting war assets for the Crucible not really making choices that have some kind of cause and effect.

But  preping for any war, choice do boil down to stats. Every war is like that. It not bad the ME3  does the same thing. Heck, DA:O came down to stats as well.
Your confusing the fact that morality does not matter with choice not mattering. It choices does matter, you just don't have only one path to do it.

You complint is no that you don't have no choice or choice does not matter. It's that BW did not give you rht e choices you want.

Not really my complaint, just trying to clarify where the others are coming from.

If you're goal is to stop the Reapers and any choice you do just equal some stats to do such then basically what you choose don't matter only that you do choose. So choices don't matter only that you make choices matter.

But that still means choices matter.

Well I think people wanted WHAT they chose to matter, not just IF they chose. So yeah what choices you make may not really matter (except in the EC slides) only that you make choices.

But I understand what you're saying in that no matter what choices you make if you get the EMS score you get the endings wherein the Galaxy is saved so you can play the game any way you like and not feel railroaded at the end because you made "wrong" choices.

Well everyone, your choices do matter toward the ending, to the EC slides at least.

[Mr.House]

AresKeith wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...
Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Yep. The worst thing about ME2's design.

Yeah, how dare they give us an option to get everybody out alive if we make the right choices.

At least make it hard to keep everyone alive, it's so easy it's sad. It's harder to kill off the whole squad then it is to keep everyone alive, that's just bad...

Then we have ME3 that just ignores the whole concept instead of improving on it.

I admit Bioware should have made the suicide mission more harder, but I do like the fact that we can make sure everyone survives

I didn't.... I expected a suicide mission, instead all I got was a mission, a boring mission at that, still not as bad as Earth though.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...
Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Yep. The worst thing about ME2's design.

Not really.

Sur ethe choices could have been harder, but wise choices and preparation should be rewarded with good outcomes.

Arbitrary tragedy be avoided whenever possible.

Good for a playthrough maybe. After that? Nada. It's the same basic flaw behind the conclusion to the Geth-Quarian conflict: there's a clear right and wrong answer. Shepards who get everyone out alive are competent, those who fail to do so are not.

Moral conflicts? Those never stop being intriguing, assuming the player cares about both outcomes. While I think both Ashley and Kaidan are bland characters, the set-up of choosing between the two was brilliant. Not sure what I would have done if it was between Morrigan and Alistair, my two favorite character. Moral questions indicate that the developer is making the player choose between two things they care about (Ex: Warden's life vs. Alistair's life), something I approve of aside from the Dark Ritual.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 15 septembre 2012 - 09:55 .

[o Ventus]

Mr.House wrote...

At least make it hard to keep everyone alive, it's so easy it's sad. It's harder to kill off the whole squad then it is to keep everyone alive, that's just bad...

Then we have ME3 that just ignores the whole concept instead of improving on it.

And why does it need to be difficult (Without being badly contrived), seeing how it's choice-based?

Modifié par o Ventus, 15 septembre 2012 - 09:59 .

[Mr.House]

o Ventus wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

At least make it hard to keep everyone alive, it's so easy it's sad. It's harder to kill off the whole squad then it is to keep everyone alive, that's just bad...

Then we have ME3 that just ignores the whole concept instead of improving on it.

And why does it need to be difficult, seeing how it's choice-based?

How dare I want a SUICIDE MISSION to not be easy and make me think, not just go Legion,Miranda,Samara. I expected a challange with all the hype Bioware did with the Sm, so ya when I finshed ME2 with everyone alive, this was my reaction. (same reaction I had during Earth too)

The choices are so simple and so easy to predict it's sad.

Modifié par Mr.House, 15 septembre 2012 - 10:01 .

[o Ventus]

Mr.House wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

At least make it hard to keep everyone alive, it's so easy it's sad. It's harder to kill off the whole squad then it is to keep everyone alive, that's just bad...

Then we have ME3 that just ignores the whole concept instead of improving on it.

And why does it need to be difficult, seeing how it's choice-based?

How dare I want a SUICIDE MISSION to not be easy and make me think, not just go Legion,Miranda,Samara. I expected a challange with all the hype Bioware did with the Sm, so ya when I finshed ME2 with everyone alive, this was my reaction. (same reaction I had during Earth too)

The choices are so simple and so easy to predict it's sad.

And your point is? The choices are there, it's your fault for not taking them. 

You could decide between the quarians and geth, or you can take the easy way out and make peace between them. You could decide between the krogan and salarians, or you can put in the extra bit of effort and get support from both parties.

Similarly, you can put in the extra effort to gain everybody's loyalty and pick them for the appropriate roles. Your complaint rings hollow.

What a shocker, a tech expert can hack a door successfully, and a biotic specialist can sustain the bubble.

Also, "suicide mission" doesn't mean that you ARE going to die. It just means that the odds are so stacked against your favor that you aren't expected to survive.

Modifié par o Ventus, 15 septembre 2012 - 10:06 .

[AlanC9]

AresKeith wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...
Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Yep. The worst thing about ME2's design.

Yeah, how dare they give us an option to get everybody out alive if we make the right choices.

and shame on us for using the Squadmates who works best in those areas during the mission

I was referring to not forcing the Reaper IFF mission the moment it comes up, the way Horizon is forced. The rest can stay, but delaying Reaper IFF is all gain, no pain.

Modifié par AlanC9, 15 septembre 2012 - 10:12 .

[Mr.House]

o Ventus wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

At least make it hard to keep everyone alive, it's so easy it's sad. It's harder to kill off the whole squad then it is to keep everyone alive, that's just bad...

Then we have ME3 that just ignores the whole concept instead of improving on it.

And why does it need to be difficult, seeing how it's choice-based?

How dare I want a SUICIDE MISSION to not be easy and make me think, not just go Legion,Miranda,Samara. I expected a challange with all the hype Bioware did with the Sm, so ya when I finshed ME2 with everyone alive, this was my reaction. (same reaction I had during Earth too)

The choices are so simple and so easy to predict it's sad.

And your point is? The choices are there, it's your fault for not taking them. 

You could decide between the quarians and geth, or you can take the easy way out and make peace between them. You could decide between the krogan and salarians, or you can put in the extra bit of effort and get support from both parties.

Similarly, you can put in the extra effort to gain everybody's loyalty and pick them for the appropriate roles. Your complaint rings hollow.

What a shocker, a tech expert can hack a door successfully, and a biotic specialist can sustain the bubble.

Also, "suicide mission" doesn't mean that you ARE going to die. It just means that the odds are so stacked against your favor that you aren't expected to survive.

And your defense of the suicide mission is hollow. There is no extra effort in doing LMs in ME2 when LMs are majoity of the games dam content. The player should not have to work to kill off party members, it should be the other way around.

Modifié par Mr.House, 15 septembre 2012 - 10:13 .

[AresKeith]

AlanC9 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...
Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Yep. The worst thing about ME2's design.

Yeah, how dare they give us an option to get everybody out alive if we make the right choices.

and shame on us for using the Squadmates who works best in those areas during the mission

I was referring to not forcing the Reaper IFF mission the moment it comes up, the way Horizon is forced. The rest can stay, but delaying Reaper IFF is all gain, no pain.

I thought you had the option to do that after the Collector Ship mission

[BaladasDemnevanni]

o Ventus wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

At least make it hard to keep everyone alive, it's so easy it's sad. It's harder to kill off the whole squad then it is to keep everyone alive, that's just bad...

Then we have ME3 that just ignores the whole concept instead of improving on it.

And why does it need to be difficult, seeing how it's choice-based?

How dare I want a SUICIDE MISSION to not be easy and make me think, not just go Legion,Miranda,Samara. I expected a challange with all the hype Bioware did with the Sm, so ya when I finshed ME2 with everyone alive, this was my reaction. (same reaction I had during Earth too)

The choices are so simple and so easy to predict it's sad.

And your point is? The choices are there, it's your fault for not taking them. 

You could decide between the quarians and geth, or you can take the easy way out and make peace between them. You could decide between the krogan and salarians, or you can put in the extra bit of effort and get support from both parties.

Similarly, you can put in the extra effort to gain everybody's loyalty and pick them for the appropriate roles. Your complaint rings hollow.

What a shocker, a tech expert can hack a door successfully, and a biotic specialist can sustain the bubble.

Also, "suicide mission" doesn't mean that you ARE going to die. It just means that the odds are so stacked against your favor that you aren't expected to survive.

If the choices are so transparent that any fool can get them first try no problem, then it's not a choice worth implementing. It's simply an insult to the character's intelligence.

[AlanC9]

AresKeith wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I was referring to not forcing the Reaper IFF mission the moment it comes up, the way Horizon is forced. The rest can stay, but delaying Reaper IFF is all gain, no pain.

I thought you had the option to do that after the Collector Ship mission

Right. See ital.

[o Ventus]

Mr.House wrote...

And your defense of the suicide mission is hollow. There is no extra effort in doing LMs in ME2 when LMs are majoity of the games dam content. The player should not have to work to kill off party members, it should bet he other way around. 

The fact that they make such a large amount of the content int he game is a testament to the "extra effort" bit, especially since they're largely optional.

Also, stop saying "should". "Should" implies objectivity, and this sure as sh*t isn't objective.

[Mr.House]

AresKeith wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...
Just like you can have a golden ending in ME2. Suicide, suicide, suicide, one way trip yada yada.

Yep. The worst thing about ME2's design.

Yeah, how dare they give us an option to get everybody out alive if we make the right choices.

and shame on us for using the Squadmates who works best in those areas during the mission

I was referring to not forcing the Reaper IFF mission the moment it comes up, the way Horizon is forced. The rest can stay, but delaying Reaper IFF is all gain, no pain.

I thought you had the option to do that after the Collector Ship mission

You can, what he is saying you can delay the IFF to get everyone but Legion loyal and nothing bad happens. What should have happen is after the ship, TIM says he will look for a way to get you a IFF, you then have 5 mission slots. This is your time to get as many peoiple as loyal as you can, then TIM contacts you and you then fly to the dead Reaper to get the IFF. After the IFF mission you have one more mission slot, one that happens the crew get's kidnapped. You can then launch the suicide mission pr continue to get peopel loyal, however oding this will result in most of your crew at the base dead. This would have made the SM more harder in terms of who to assin roles to and not.

[AresKeith]

AlanC9 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I was referring to not forcing the Reaper IFF mission the moment it comes up, the way Horizon is forced. The rest can stay, but delaying Reaper IFF is all gain, no pain.

I thought you had the option to do that after the Collector Ship mission

Right. See ital.

I guess they did that because they already forced us in two missions and doing more would have annoyed people

[o Ventus]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

If the choices are so transparent that any fool can get them first try no problem, then it's not a choice worth implementing. It's simply an insult to the character's intelligence.

You can apply this to almost every single choice in the trilogy that isn't mutually exclusive. The only exception I can think of is getting the support of both the krogan and salarians, and having Conrad Verner survive ME3.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

o Ventus wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

If the choices are so transparent that any fool can get them first try no problem, then it's not a choice worth implementing. It's simply an insult to the character's intelligence.

You can apply this to almost every single choice in the trilogy that isn't mutually exclusive. The only exception I can think of is getting the support of both the krogan and salarians, and having Conrad Verner survive ME3.

Exactly.

It's why I applaud the implementation of the Virmire Survivor in ME1, but not the Suicide Mission of ME2. Once you know the trick, the answer is always the same, like 2+2 = 4. There is a right answer to the Suicide Mission and it's incredibly transparent. Bioware shot themselves in the foot by making the entire cast killable, but without any kind of pay-off for that cost. It may as well have been structured like ME1's Battle for the Citadel where the player does not have the ability to choose the fate of his companions.