26 réponses à ce sujet

[Quitch]

Baldur's Gate II was the first time that Bioware wrote a romance into one of their games and was all part of making NPCs a bigger part of their games, something which has gone on ever since.

I never saw anything about this at the time and was wondering if there have ever been any interviews which covered this ground; why they decided on romances, why the expansion of NPCs as people, why they continued (presumably feedback by in 2000 was this forum driven or e-mails?) etc.

Basically, I'd just like to know more about the history of how this side of their RPGs came to be and developed.

[TuringPoint]

Wish I knew where to point you specifically, but I remember generally that it was sort of an experiment, and it went over well with the fans.

The forums were a place where devs interacted with the community since long before twitter etc.  A majority of the devs don't visit the forums, but those that do have always been unusually responsive.  Only the devs would know what personal e-mails were written about it.  I know fans have repeatedly e-mailed voice actors about their roles, especially the romanceable characters.  Starting with Kotor it got to be really popular, since Carth's romance was created with feedback solicited through the forums by Gaider and maybe others.  It is my estimation that most of the interest in romances is female, so this was probably significant.

The response to the male romance options in BG II wasn't all negative, but there was a lot of complaining about how whiny this one character was, a cleric guy, and how few male romance options there were.  

Also, in BG II the romances weren't as extensive as some of the writers wanted.  

It seems like in later RPG's the romances got a little more to the point; in my opinion, though, the Jade Empire romances were the most balanced and effective.

Modifié par Alocormin, 15 septembre 2012 - 04:05 .

[rapscallioness]

That's a good question. I've been wondering that myself. I haven't really seen anything specifically about this subject from the devs. There were a few comments, I think, about how "some" devs worry about the romance part of the game overshadowing the "real" story of the game.

I for one really like the romance subplots in BW games. It's very unique in games like this. I think it's actually rather clever to have that option in the game because it pulls players into the game more. Well, it does for me. More emotionally invested in whatever choices I need to make, and whatever events are going on.

Every great hero has a great love that drives them either through tragedy, or...it's a beautiful thing...but love is a big part of the story. The characterization of the PC and the environment. It's all one story to me. I don't see the competition

As far as the expansion of NPC's as ppl...I think that, too was a smart move. You can connect to the fictional world even better when there are characters involved in the story that you care about.

A squad based game where the NPC's are not just canon fodder, but fleshed out characters is one of the reasons I love BW games. I love the camaraderie of BW games.

That said, I haven't personally heard that much about their reasoning for starting down this path. But I'm glad they did.

[N7 Lisbeth]

It's called depth, and as Rapscallioness points out, emotional investment.

You do realise friendship is another form of romance. There's a reason we jokingly refer to (platonic) friendship between guys "bromances."

Imagine making life altering choices, galaxy-scaled, in an emotional vaccuum. O.o

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 15 septembre 2012 - 04:14 .

[frostajulie]

It is the role of NPC's in the development of my PCs story that sets Bioware games head and shoulders above the rest of the competition it is a truly interactive game when you involve your emotions. It is why even as much as I loathe ME3 I still love Bioware and replay all their other games. It is also why I stick around to see what they do next. They are really good with heartstrings when they try.

[Snoopy1955]

Well, there are a number of reasons.

It gives us another way to connect with the characters that we are taking on our adventure with us. It only makes sense that we'd form an emotional connection to the people who are fighting hordes of horrifying monsters with us, wouldn't it?

It makes the characters feel more real. Any NPC can charge into battle and blast baddies in the face, but an NPC that also appears to have complex emotions such as love and hate, that doesn't really feel like an NPC anymore.

It lets us interact with people without the awkwardness of interacting with people.

It gives us wish-fulfilment. If those eHarmony adds that I see on TV are telling the truth, then a lot of people out there want to form deep and meaningful connections with people and aren't having a whole lot of luck in that department. If I can pick up a video game and get the same experience without having to risk my actual feelings by going on a date with some stranger, that seems like a good idea to me.

[Bierwichtel]

just imagine the developers being *edited* and building npcs into games that would reject the player based on their appearance, or the choice of voices or somesuch...

just like in real life, now that would be, well *edited*...

*let's avoid crude terms, please ~Selene Moonsong*

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 15 septembre 2012 - 07:03 .

[Code_R]

It's just fanservice at heart. People will get all mushy over the characters with or without the option for some pants on hugging and a few more gamer score points. Personally the LI thing was always unbelievable and shallow since it needed to fit inside the time scale of the events in a game storyline which is relatively short. At the same time though it reflects what is expected of writing fiction since it is seen in other media all the time.

[Snoopy1955]

Code_R wrote...

It's just fanservice at heart. People will get all mushy over the characters with or without the option for some pants on hugging and a few more gamer score points. Personally the LI thing was always unbelievable and shallow since it needed to fit inside the time scale of the events in a game storyline which is relatively short. At the same time though it reflects what is expected of writing fiction since it is seen in other media all the time.

While the time constraints inherent in the story of any Bioware game would normally be an issue when creating a romance, we also have the element that these people are involving themselves in very harrowing experiences together. Now, I don't personally charge into battle against hordes of horrifying monsters, but if I did, and I had people at my back who were also charging into those battles with hordes of horrifying monsters, I wouldn't actually have to know them very well in order to form an emotional connection with them.

The fact of the matter is, it isn't unreasonable for me to fall in love with the person who kept a horrifying monster from eating my face, even if I don't know their favorite color, and if there was a chance that everyone in my crew of intrepid adventurers could die in a day, looking for love, and finding someone who is also looking for love, and then both parties deciding that the other will do isn't all that unrealistic of a concept.

[Code_R]

Well that's just my take on it of course, and a lot of these are great characters. I just find some inherent humour in the likes of Liara or whoever throwing themselves at your after a handful of scenes making small talk. Would the idea of incoming death and war enhance these kinds of relationships? I will have to take their word for it.

[Bierwichtel]

at least these romances are developed somewhat and don't come totally out of left-field

alway like the progression of the Lelianna romance for one.

[Snoopy1955]

Well, with Asari bioligy and culture, it actually might make perfect sense for Liara to throw herself at any man who is capable.

[marshalleck]

There's money to be had in wish-fulfillment of lonely neckbeards.

[timj2011]

marshalleck wrote...

There's money to be had in wish-fulfillment of lonely neckbeards.

So edgy, bro

[marshalleck]

timj2011 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

There's money to be had in wish-fulfillment of lonely neckbeards.

So edgy, bro

You know as well as I do it's fan-service.

[timj2011]

marshalleck wrote...

timj2011 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

There's money to be had in wish-fulfillment of lonely neckbeards.

So edgy, bro

You know as well as I do it's fan-service.

Oh I know, it's obvious. I was just pointing out that you were being edgy.

[marshalleck]

We turians are all edgy.

[ScotGaymer]

Basically its a cheap and easy way to develop non player characters.

Thats it. lol.

[coles4971]

Sad, but true. If you didn't *crude reference rmoved by Moderator* a character in ME2 their dialogue path just went "blergh".

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 15 septembre 2012 - 11:08 .

[Seboist]

marshalleck wrote...

There's money to be had in wish-fulfillment of lonely neckbeards.

True, that's the only thing some are interested in around here.

Modifié par Seboist, 16 septembre 2012 - 06:44 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Romances were/are great as an experiment to show that in an interactive narrative, characters can relate to each other in a variety of ways. The problem is, Bioware never really evolved the concept past that. Romances at this point feel more like a form of mental masturbation because it makes our character "the best". KotOR 2 was one of the few games where I thought that character romances had a larger point than just entertainment via the Influence system.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 15 septembre 2012 - 10:46 .

[Neizd]

Well... from my looong experience in RPG games, it's because romance options give players more immersion. When playing PnP Rpg type games a lot of GM's create romancable NPC's for players because it helps them go into the mood of the game. When in romance, your created character (and you other self along with it) gives more emotions to those around him. You also care more about well being of other characters, game world etc.

Romance in RPG games gives depth to the story. I was VERY shocked what we got in ME3 with half if not more romancable characters, since Bioware just broke the immersion for half of the community if not more. The same could be said about autodialoque that also gave player a feeling like (Hey this is not my Shepard...wtf is he talking about and why like that). There is no RPG game without immersion and Bioware probably just forgot about it.

[devSin]

Quitch wrote...

Basically, I'd just like to know more about the history of how this side of their RPGs came to be and developed.

There have been interviews and discussions about it in the past, although I don't remember anything specifically.

You should see if you can't get David Gaider to talk about it (I don't know if they're in crunch or what right now, so he might be kind of busy, but you could try sending him a PM). He wrote most of them (all but Jaheira IIRC) in BG2.

[bloodstalker1973]

if you haven't seen it, David Gaider talks a bit about how BW started doing romances in this interview.  The character/romance bit begins at around the 3:30 mark. May not answer all the questions you might have, but it gives some insight into how romances came about in Baldur's Gate 2.

www.youtube.com/watch

[Grizzly46]

bloodstalker1973 wrote...

if you haven't seen it, David Gaider talks a bit about how BW started doing romances in this interview.  The character/romance bit begins at around the 3:30 mark. May not answer all the questions you might have, but it gives some insight into how romances came about in Baldur's Gate 2.

www.youtube.com/watch

Good interview. In short, the reason they included romances were because films almost always include some kind of romance, and they wanted the story to be more character-driven.

Also, I think I recall that some fan fic showed romances, and there had been some influx of player demands for this kind of thing between BG1 and 2.

For the record: The entire Baldurs Gate saga is the best franchise EVER, even beating Mass Effect. And now they are doing a remake of it.