213 réponses à ce sujet

[Grunt_Platform]

AsheraII wrote...

ABSOLUTELY NOT. Sync kills are part of Mass Effect. Take them out of Multiplayer, and you take one of the signature features of the Mass Effect universe out of the game.

If you can't handle the insta kills, then maybe a more simplistic game like CoD would suit you better.

Oh yes, fond memories of all those synch kills in ME1 and 2.

Still, I do think the lethality of synch kills is important to the flavor of the multiplayer. The only reason to remove them would be if the bugs and quirky behavior that make them cheap and fun-deadening can't be removed. I'd rather not have synch kills be this nigh-unavoidable insta-death as soon as they're locked on. If nothing else it should be easier for team mates to rescue you from Banshees.

[ASmoothCriminalx]

yes... remove the instant kill from a banshee so it is reduced to what.. a teleporting melee/warp thrower? they would be a joke.

In the games I play, most players don't get sync-killed by banshees because my friends and I can put out enough damage to stop the kill or predict when someone is likely to get grabbed switch to the missile launcher.

Brutes: you have to be really unlucky by getting staggered into a corner to be sync-killed by them.

Atlases: you have to be pretty stupid to stand right in front of an Atlas long enough to be sync-killed.

Phantoms: now this is probably the hardest sync-kill to avoid. I just think they need to be less buggy but it's good practice to have a staggering weapon or power to deal with them.

[Kogia]

BiO_MaN wrote...

What you're saying is a nice sentiment, only that it's really unneeded. I'm guessing you usually a mid to long range character, which is why you never had problems with Banshees an Phantoms. When I play my games, I'm usually right in the thick of it, and believe me, CQC characters have enough cons as it is.

Think about it, the enemy that has the highest health in the game, can teleport in unpredictable patterns, also has an insta-kill move that players have no control over, and is lag-delayed. That's bad designing right there.

There are better ways to add fear to an enemy than adding silly gimmicks that take away control from the player. Look at Left 4 Dead 2 and it's special infected, none of them have insta-kill moves. If you have skill, you can defend yourself on your own, provided you have good timing. If you lack the skill, but have good teammates, you're saved as well. It's a system that rewards good team work and skill, rather than ME3's that is luck-based and rewards exploitive behaviour.

No, my favourite and most played character is a non-BS (3 points only) specced N7 Slayer and my 2nd favourite character is a BatSent with a Pirahna who I play very aggressively in mid-cqc. As I've said before I'm no expert, but I just haven't found Banshees or Phantoms (if you're instant killed by an Atlas you screwed up in a big way) taking me out too often and when they do I know where things went wrong and it's not with their design.

I just don't see instakills as a silly gimmick taking control away, it's death, if dying is taking control away then that impacts a whole range of games and mechanics. I used to play Warhammer Online and the cc abilities in that game were crazy annoying for leaving the player feeling helpless and ME3 has nothing like that.

One point I have to make, in this discussion you're making assumptions about me and how I play, but I have not done the same to you and you're outright stating that my opinions are wrong or 'not needed', which I also have not done to you. 

Modifié par Kogia, 16 septembre 2012 - 02:01 .

[Javosama]

Annomander wrote...

I support characters with no mobility move (krogan, batarians and turians) being able to "Press 'F' Rapidly to escape" from banshee sync kills, and some sync kills to be removed, such as phantoms (who are deadly enough already) brutes (who already have the stupid mechanic of falling onto people and hurting them when they die).

Alternatively,  remove them entirely on phantoms, atlas and brutes, and replace them on banshees with something less glitchy, and more difficult for non vanguards / melee to handle; an annihilation field like effect would be perfect.: have everyone take damage to their health / shields for being within X yards of the banshee.

Right now, sync kills are a cruel joke, they unnecessarily punish vanguards and melee classes for no reason whatsoever. Currently builds which you could call "high risk" offer incredibly low reward... which defeats the purpose of choosing a high risk build in the first place. Why play a vanguard, a batarian melee or Krogan? Do other classes, non-vanguard and non melee get punished for shooting or using powers? No? Then why should my krogan be punished for using MRRRAAAH or my batarian for using falcon punch?

Phantoms; between their hand cannon, death slash attack and their hand of denial shield they are still potent. Removing their sync kill would buff the following classes' survivability: Krogan, Batarians, N7 paladin melee builds (Oh yeah, coincidentally all the classes who are most vulnerable to these bullsh*t mechanics)

Brutes: Easy to deal with, but isnt getting slapped about by them enough of a punishment already without the RNG dictating that its time for you to erroneously die? Removing the sync kill on Brutes would buff: Krogan, batarians and turians (coincidentally, all the classes who are least mobile)

Atlas: Again, this sync kill makes no sense, no one ever is affected by it as it is so obvious to avoid. The only time you are at risk of it is when you have been downed already;  it means you need to pre-emptively medi-gel in order to make sure the exectution animation doesn't play, or else if you leave it to the last second you are going to get sync killed regardless....

Banshees: Similar to the phantoms, this sync kill is glitchy, rarely works properly and is real cheap. Removing the sync kill again, would benefit the less mobile classes. Replacing it with annihilation field would still make banshees a force to be reckoned with.

No increase in damage or compensation (except for banshees) is
required, as currently, the negligible extra survivability that
batarians / krogan have as the tough / tanky classes would be negated by
increasing the damage on these enemy types, as atlas / phantoms /
brutes / banshees tend to destroy shields in 1 hit, take you down to
health gate in 2 and kill in 3 anyway if you are not bat/kro, putting the toughest classes in
the same boat as the weaker ones would be counter productive.

TL;DR:
-anything which removes control of your character (particularly for an entire round) is neither fair, balanced or enjoyable.

-I support slower characters being immune / resistant or being able to escape sync kills

-add annihilation field to banshees to compensate

I wish they could add new animations to the characters. A Banshee that has Annihilation field, and an increase rate or throwing their heavy warp at you to cause us to biotically explode would have been uterly amazing. While at the same time still posing a significant challenge without the cheap magnet grab synch-kill. I like this alot.

[Javosama]

SavagelyEpic wrote...

Assumedkilla wrote...

Magnetic hands and other issues have been a problem since day one, but lately it feels like more BS than usual has been happening with them (at least to me). It's idiotic that banshees/phantoms stand over your downed body and kill you the second you stand up before you can even move if you revive yourself. There's also the times when a banshee teleports towards you, it's 20 feet away, you can't move, and then the next thing you know you're on the ground dead as it stands above you.

Of course, there's magnetic hands where they somehow develop telekensis and make you fly towards them. Instant kills should stay in singleplayer, but there's too much going on for their system to properly calculate when it should and shouldn't happen online. I'd say at least 70% of the time I've died that way it should not have happened. Banshees and phantoms would still be good bosses if they lost the ability. I know an atlas can do it too, but I've never had or seen a problem with them doing it.

I believe select instakills on select classes should be .. counterable. Not fully removed, but you're able to (attempt) to counter them. 

Seriously, if you're a Shadow and you have Sword Mastery maxed out, you should be able to parry a Phantom stab. ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY SHANK A SWORDMASTER.

And now on earth does a Banshee simply stick her hand into the whirling madness of monomolecular steel and death incarnate and pluck the Slayer up by his coattails? There's certain things that she shouldn't be able to do to you while you're doing certain things. I mean, you're phasing out of reality during light melee spam, for heaven's sakes. You don't just stick your hand into a space-magic-teleporting-death-blender.

Krogan? Really? A Banshee picking up a Krogan? ... No. You don't just decide to pick up a sentient dinosaur.

Well said sir

[Barge6000]

definately on banshee, its too fast and tanky to have a magnet grab. If you get nailed by an atlas thats your own fault and phantoms are ok apart from when they stalk you when your down

[UpirNoir]

As annoying as the Magnet Hands of the Banshee (or of the Phantom I encountered yesterday) might be: A big, fat no !!!

[Morgax_Warrior]

While i agree that i hate that feature, you can't remove "features" that are falling under the jurisdiction of artistic integrity.

[Kenshen]

I don't mind instant kills cause it does add a little more challenge. What I would change is a player shouldn't be able to be instant killed right after being revived or medigel used. I wouldn't lose any sleep if banshees lost the ablility since theirs is really affected by lag.

[scot15]

No. In fact give them more. Give them grab. That ud give farmers something to think about.....mine is an evil laugh!

[MaxShine]

No. I do not like to get sync killed, but it adds excitement to the game

[Computron2000]

Not needed. The real enemy is lag. Even though i host normally, i do play in quick matches and have seen the magnetic hands known to many both as host and as client.

On host, its more visible, You entered melee range and activated their sync kill. Their magnetic hands on host doesn't drag you far as it activates before you can reach more than 5m. This is because the sync kill is queued and will only animate when it reaches its turn in queue

On client though, the lag increases the time you can run so it looks ridiculous. You entered melee range sometime recently and managed to run away but the sync kill is already activated. Because lag adds seconds to the response and bad lag adds more, the more laggy you are, the more you can run away but still die (Host has already determined that you're dead. Your client can argue its not but the host is king)

The only magnetic hands that can be considered a glitch is the "ignore cover/walls" sync kill. That is a problem that is also caused by lag (basically a contention of your position on the map with the host saying you're not behind a wall and your client saying its behind a wall. Host wins. Sync kill possible and executed)

Conclusion: Sync kills are fine as its normally a result of yur own unwise choices. Also don't play games that are lagging bad.

[MrGoldarm]

Nay. Biotic hands 4 life!
It is fine the way it is.
 

Modifié par Goldarm, 16 septembre 2012 - 05:03 .

[Dama733]

If they changed it to a KO instead of a bleedout I would be fine with that, but having a single banshee being able to take out 3/4 of a team with insta kill's in under 30 seconds on gold is getting stupid.

Especially with that charge, impale combo they use constantly on Gold and Platinum

[Atucker_a32]

 Nay, it's what makes those enemies so menacing, without the inta kill most of them just become an oversized ****(phantom excluded) I do however think there should be a way to fight back like a random series of buttons, make it difficult enough to where escape only happens like 10% of the time or something, or at least make different races/classes react different, ie the krogans have a redundant organ system do most of the insta kills would not actually kill them instead just down them but the next insta kill would take them permanently, or add an evolution to fitness for certain classes that enables an escape, ie the fury or slayer who have short range teleportation so they should have a chance at least until the fatal blow is struck so odds are they could always escape a banshee but almost never a brute,

Just give us a fighting chance when we're grabbed, nothing's worse than being grabbed by a banshee just to wait for the inevitable stab through you're stomach 

[Malokai The Hallowed]

Personally the only insta-kills that are way out of line are the magnet hands. It's one thing if there's a bit of lag, but when I'm hosting, some times I still get this from a genuinely unreasonable distance. Just shorten the window they have to use it in, and possibly slightly quicken their reaction time with it, an they'll be no worse than phantoms and all will be well. The other insta-kills are fine, I've never raged at a brute or an atlas for mudholing my face, if they do, its my fault for being so close. Magnet hands remove that element of player-directed prevention, and that is their problem. If you can't avoid it with skill or careful playing, it's too OP.

[lazysundae]

There is already something that negates Banshee instakills - stairs.

Has anyone ever stood toe to toe with a Banshee on stairs? It reduces her to nothing more than something to shoot, and removes the fear that SHOULD come with facing a reaperfied biotic goddess. Without instakills, you might as well be dealing with more footsoldiers (except they actually have guns).

No - instakills need to stay. One should have different strategies to fighting different enemies, and that means keeping one's distance on the ones that can murder you.

[EricPhail]

I don't think they need to be removed outright but they would feel much fairer if:

Phantom - melee must target victim first (no thin air swings or slash one guy instakill the other)

Banshee - 1. Increased delay (if one exists) of .5 to 1 second after teleporting (stopping Hi, Die)
and 2. Requiring a 2nd check for range once she facing the right way (so she decides, turns, then has a range check (pass - instakill, fail - swings melee?nothing? screams? warps?) would reduce magnet hands.

Atlas + Brute don't really need a change

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

Yes. They're buggy and in my opinion, overkilld.

Banshees already have:

- Heavy, target seeking DoT attack
- Heavy, area of effect DoT attack
- Melee attack
- Can teleport

Brutes:

- Wide AoE melee attack
- Wide AoE rush attack
- Fast jump attack

Phantoms:

- Have ridiculous Sniper gloves
- Invisibility
- Invincibility frames against powers
- Strong, quick melee attacks

Atlases:

- High Shields and armor
- Melee attacks
- Target seeking rockets with AoE
- Fast, strong shotgun blasts



Removing instakills from these enemies is only being fair to classes like Vanguards whose profiecency is close combat, while Infiltrators or Soldiers laugh since they can just keep their distance.


Edit: But I definitely agree with those saying that as long as Banshees have to execute a normal melee attack before instakilling, I'd be more than fine with that. Why do they have that advantage when compared to Atlases when they are already more dangerous?

Modifié par BlackbirdSR-71C, 16 septembre 2012 - 06:21 .

[Seraphithan]

Instakills can stay but should be tweaked.

Brutes and Atlases are fine. The Brute really only uses its instakill when you are totally backed into a corner where being smashed by 2 tons of angry Krogan/Turian-Hybrid has to be expected.
The Atlas telegraphs his instakill from miles away so it is my own damn fault for being caught in one. Their uncanny ability to snatch a vanguard right out of charge is iffy but falls into the own damn fault category.

Phantoms are mostly okay. Getting meleed by one, trying my best to get away and staring at her palm-gun thinking "Shoot me! Shoot me, dammit!!" can be pretty intense. Their ability to instakill anyone, even after a failed melee should be toned down though. At least a successfull melee should be required, better a successfull melee against the instakill target.
Also I am pretty sure they can do their "charge-up" melee midstagger, at least it sometimes sounds like they are meleeing while being staggered.

Banshees need work. I can't remember a single instakill from them that didn't feel cheap. Even without obvious magnethands they seem to be able to pick me up from insane distances and seem to prefer to do so while I'm running away from them.
Everyone who fought them on stairs of course knows that you can't just take the instakill away as they are quite ignorable without it, but the instakill being on cooldown for 1-2 seconds after a charge would make them dangerous without being cheap. Simply give me a timewindow big enough to turn around and run when a banshee teleports right on top of me. If I decide it's melee time instead it's my own damn fault getting my intestines rearranged.

[Bleachrude]

lazysundae wrote...

There is already something that negates Banshee instakills - stairs.

Has anyone ever stood toe to toe with a Banshee on stairs? It reduces her to nothing more than something to shoot, and removes the fear that SHOULD come with facing a reaperfied biotic goddess. Without instakills, you might as well be dealing with more footsoldiers (except they actually have guns).

No - instakills need to stay. One should have different strategies to fighting different enemies, and that means keeping one's distance on the ones that can murder you.

This.

I actually soloed 2 BANSHEES on gold by using that trick...Kroguard and didn't lose one bar of health at all...(Stronghold shield V ...didn't even need cyclonic modulator) It's gotten to the point that as a kroguard I actually RUN towards the stairs and just wait for the banshee....

re: Melee vs non-melee

I don't see how this screws over melee characters since you know...you actually HAVE a weapon on hand. Why is it so hard for melee characters to you know, use the gun in their hand? Especially given the fact that many of the best weapons don't hamper them.

Piranha, Talon, GPS, Harrier anyone?

I would agree instakills unfairly target melee characters but there's no such thing in ME3 MP. There's characters that don't suck in melee but theres nothing stopping a kroguard from using the Talon....

Modifié par Bleachrude, 16 septembre 2012 - 06:47 .

[sonofabumdooda]

FeralJester616 wrote...

sonofabumdooda wrote...

hostaman wrote...

There are ways to take out phantoms, so I think the Insta kill should stay - you need to have a sense of danger when you're setting up a stassis, shadow strike or shot with a powerful weapon.

Running away from a screaming banshee is one of the most frightening and adrenaline pumping aspects of the game. The Instakill makes it even more of a challenge. I also agree that's it's quite a buzz to save a squad mate mid grab.

Leave them alone. We need the fear!

yeah.. phantoms fears the GPS on all difficulties...to easy to take them down with it..stagger then die...buff the phantom!

You say Buff the Phantom?
I say Nerf the GPS...

I can't believe I just called for a nerf...
Honestly though, if you find it too easy with that weapon, stop using it....

Phantoms do need a buff.
The once mighty queen of death is now just a jumpy annoyance hence BW deciding to throw another half dozen at a time at us.

*edit* typo

Modifié par sonofabumdooda, 16 septembre 2012 - 06:47 .

[kitty209]

sync kills are always a problem, they really need proper work insted of removal, cause even in single player i got magnet hands at times, maybe make them trigget if a player is already facing the enemy, insted *force player to turn around and walk a step or 2 to line him/her up* also need to impruve the net code a bit cause sometimes i get revived at the very last second, and my character stand like in model vier or something for a few seconds befor it get fixed and i get control *still considered down/dead while character frozen, and im aware its a bit off topic here*

[tonnactus]

At least the Banshee should perform a melee attack like every other enemy that could instantkill. And Phantoms should actually connect with their first melee strike. Nothing more retarted then them meleeing the air and then instantkill a player.

[cronshaw]

no