823 réponses à ce sujet

[paul165]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

OK. Clearly everyone who worked on ME3 from Mac Walters to QA guys personally contributed to its design, lied to every individual in the fandom, and has it in for everyone who ever bought the game. And those normal employees who barely saw the outside of the office for months? They also deserve all the vitriolic accusations of dishonesty, racism, sexism, and whatever else the Internet hurls around these days.  Because BioWare's some sort of Soviet-style video game monolithic evil empire.

It's kinda a bleak outlook, but whatever floats your boat.

Um what?

The original tweet was in no way personally insulting to Gamble nor did it accuse him of anything on that list - if it had Gamble would have perfectly entitled to ban him. The original tweet was a rather decent analogy of one person's perception of Bioware's business practices (rather better than the analogy I used as our local friendly Volus accurately pointed out).

The original tweet in no way justifies the response that Gamble produced.

I think some people do have problems separating Bioware the company from the people that work for it though so I'll certainly agree with you both there and that personal insults on both sides are completely unnecessary and actively harmful to any discussion.

[SpamBot2000]

Road maps of Italy are clearly inessential... all roads lead to Rome.

[paul165]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Road maps of Italy are clearly inessential... all roads lead to Rome.

Nice!

[LilyasAvalon]

I'm not gonna lie, at this point in time, I'm more surprised the twitter accounts of ALL the Bioware devs AREN'T filled with f, s, and c bombs.

[Hexley UK]

obZen DF wrote...

Anyone know something about the new DLC picture??

Chris Priestly:
"It seems our Montreal studio dropped a new DLC image at their panel at Montreal Comic Con. Those tricky devils. I wonder what it could be?"

https://twitter.com/BioEvilChris

Anyone give a damn?

[Ridwan]

Siran wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

As far as I know, Leviathan was never in the original script leak or cut from the game because of time; though I may be wrong about that. Someone will correct me if I am. Omega was cut because of "time." I'm not a big fan of paying for something that was (at one point) intended to be included in the stock game. They could have found "time" to have Omega in the stock game, as far as I'm concerned.

And broken the deadline yet another time by who knows how many months. There are deadlines to any game, ME3 got delayed from December to March already. It's no coincidence, EA's fiscal year ends March 31st, ME3 was included in their fiscal plans. Whole budgets and resources are allocated around these plans, it's not like BioWare could develop ME3 till eternity - Duke Nukem Forever took 10 years and we saw how that turned out. Plus, I'm sure several of those who accuse ME3 of being "rushed" would have raged over another delay.

There is a big difference between 12 years and 2 years. And Duke Nukem forever is an EXCEPTION of a game that takes way too long to make and turns out like crap. I challenge you out of all the thousands of major games that's been released to find a game like Duke Nukem Forever, and I'm already taking Daikatana away from you cause that's an obvious answer if you're an older gamer.

Good games take time to make, DA: Origins had 5 years on its name before it came out. With the new funds and EA money a good and reasonable time for ME3 would've been 3 years. People constantly give Blizzard the excuse of they can afford, well guess what they weren't super rich back when they released Warcraft 2, but they still delayed it until it was completely ready. Either EA is a ruthless dictator or the top at Bioware is filled with spineless yes men who are too afraid to stand their ground and tell EA "We need more time, you have to trust in what we do. Stop working us so hard and we will deliver you a game that can be milked for a near decade". It's probably a combination of the two.

And lol at people defending gamble, if you work in a company you feel loyalty to your coworker, of course he's going to get mad after who knows how many insults he got, but that still doesn't excuse in what Bioware did. Meaning they screwed us.


Note: I'm probably not going to buy a new Blizzard game again though, due to my dissapointment in their recent games and the whole Iran thing, but the example is still valid to use.

Modifié par M25105, 16 septembre 2012 - 11:12 .

[EnvyTB075]

He has a point though, i'm pretty sure that a character designer didn't have much input on the story, which is arguably the biggest thing wrong with the game.

Still, everything happened under the BioWare label, so the anger is directed at BioWare, and what did you expect from people on twitter? Smart well thought out essays or hate mail?

Protip: Don't use twitter.

[Melancholic]

Hexley UK wrote...

Anyone give a damn?

Yes.

[Loaderini]

Since the release of Mass Effect 3, Bioware and Bioware fans are acting like a divorced couple. Fighting over the same things again and again, trying to prove they're right with every chance that appears and wanting to always have the last word.
I think we need a new couple.

[Twinzam.V]

M25105 wrote...

There is a big year between 12 years and 2 years. And Duke Nukem 4 ever is an EXCEPTION. Good games take time to make, DA: Origins had 5 years on its name before it came out. With the new funds and EA money a good and reasonable time for ME3 would've been 3 years.

Thats the problem with money from others. If they say jump you jump, if they say release the game you got to to release it. 

[AlexMBrennan]

Fact is: The ending with Catalyst, either original or EC, is bad writing. Having a random guy appear and make all the problems go away at the end of the story is bad writing. Having Shepard just take Godchild's word for everything (who had introduced himself as the head Reaper), is bad writing.

Leviathan fixes this by (retroactively) forshadoing Catalyst. Bioware charging the consumer for this is as appropriate as a burger restaurant charging you extra to re-make a frozen burger.

Do I believe that Leviathan was cut? No; regardless, it's inappropriate for Bioware to sell transparently disguised fix DLC like this.

Another fact: Look at his job title - producer. I am pretty sure that job entails not using inappropriate language when talking to fans. He had to open a Twitter account. It was his choice to engage with fans directly rather than taking the easier route of having PR people lie to fans for him. If you can't take the heat, close your Twitter account.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 16 septembre 2012 - 11:11 .

[tholloway93]

fair enough, really/..

[Robhuzz]

Twinzam.V wrote...

M25105 wrote...

There is a big year between 12 years and 2 years. And Duke Nukem 4 ever is an EXCEPTION. Good games take time to make, DA: Origins had 5 years on its name before it came out. With the new funds and EA money a good and reasonable time for ME3 would've been 3 years.

Thats the problem with money from others. If they say jump you jump, if they say release the game you got to to release it. 

Which is why I'm a big fan of the kickstarter principle that lets developers avoid the traditional publisher - developer business model.

Plenty of money to create what you want and no annoying greedy publisher demanding things. Perhaps this industry can yet be saved...

[Henioo]

I'd understand if the team was doing it for free and someone whined about it.

But it is their ****ing job. If they don't expect complaints, I think they're in the wrong industry.

Everyone knows they could have very well include those DLCs in the original game, but they intentionally left those things out (who among us did not expect to find out the origin of reapers or retaking omega after reading the comic, in ME3?) to sell them to us later.

If they didn't want a backlash, they should have ****ing put their backs into it.

[Ridwan]

They still haven't manned up and apologised for the ending fiasco after all this time, but I'm patient.

[satunnainen]

Henioo wrote...

I'd understand if the team was doing it for free and someone whined about it.

But it is their ****ing job. If they don't expect complaints, I think they're in the wrong industry.

Everyone knows they could have very well include those DLCs in the original game, but they intentionally left those things out (who among us did not expect to find out the origin of reapers or retaking omega after reading the comic, in ME3?) to sell them to us later.

If they didn't want a backlash, they should have ****ing put their backs into it.

Their job is to develop games. Their job is not to take any bs from some venting "fan". I am not sure what kind of industry do you work for if you think anyone can just pour all their bitter venomous opinions spiced with swear words on some random worker without retaliation. 

[AlexMBrennan]

Since the release of Mass Effect 3, Bioware and Bioware fans are acting like a divorced couple. Fighting over the same things again and again, trying to prove they're right with every chance that appears and wanting to always have the last word.
I think we need a new couple.

Must be nice living in Biotopia where this is an academic discussion. However, in the real world the situation looks slightly different: I was tricked into buying ME3; I would not have bought it if I had known that interactive storytelling and "choices matter" was nothing more than lies.

There are two ways to fix this: Fix the product, or give me a refund. Neither of those things has happened because I stupidly bought the game from Origin, a mistake I can assure you will not be repeated.
It's really that simple: I am right, and Bioware is wrong. You cannot defend developers lying in interviews about their product. You cannot defend promotional videos using cut content to advertise the game.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 16 septembre 2012 - 11:31 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I understand them. I try to keep that anger I have about the endings in check, but it just bubbles over when I read something about Bioware, especially when or how they interact with fans.

[Henioo]

satunnainen wrote...
Their job is to develop games. Their job is not to take any bs from some venting "fan". I am not sure what kind of industry do you work for if you think anyone can just pour all their bitter venomous opinions spiced with swear words on some random worker without retaliation. 

comicbookguy_UK wrote...
next time u buy a book ill rip out the last 1/4 and sell u it as dlc.. See if u like it? With EA.. Im THAT cynical!

Not a swear word in sight. Your argument is invalid.

Sure, their job is to develop games. But if you work in an entertainment industry, you gotta expect that your product ain't gonna be universally well-received. If you don't, you're too full of yourself and deserve all the BS in the world.

I'm not defending ****ing on BW, don't get me wrong; there are a-holes on both sides, and I'm not so arrogant to not see it.
I just understand where those people are coming from. I, myself, prefer to just distance myself and not support BW anymore.

Modifié par Henioo, 16 septembre 2012 - 11:38 .

[Ridwan]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I understand them. I try to keep that anger I have about the endings in check, but it just bubbles over when I read something about Bioware, especially when or how they interact with fans.

Let me ask you something, if the DA3 messed up badly like the ME3 team, and try to forget for one second that the ME3 are coworkers, would you step up and apologise? I'm talking about something as lame as the dumb space kid, that no one in their right mind would consider great writing (unless they're like major Contact fans).

And FYI I actually enjoyed DA2, though I'll admit that it pissed me off seeing the recycled content and maps.

[Siran]

M25105 wrote...

There is a big difference between 12 years and 2 years. And Duke Nukem forever is an EXCEPTION of a game that takes way too long to make and turns out like crap. I challenge you out of all the thousands of major games that's been released to find a game like Duke Nukem Forever, and I'm already taking Daikatana away from you cause that's an obvious answer if you're an older gamer.

Why would I need to? But take Alan Wake or Secret World as recent examples, both were financial disasters with long development cycles, with the latter even having to delay content because it had to fire several people since it didn't sell well. They may be good games, but did it help them or their developers?

Good games take time to make, DA: Origins had 5 years on its name before it came out. With the new funds and EA money a good and reasonable time for ME3 would've been 3 years. People constantly give Blizzard the excuse of they can afford, well guess what they weren't super rich back when they released Warcraft 2, but they still delayed it until it was completely ready. Either EA is a ruthless dictator or the top at Bioware is filled with spineless yes men who are too afraid to stand their ground and tell EA "We need more time, you have to trust in what we do. Stop working us so hard and we will deliver you a game that can be milked for a near decade". It's probably a combination of the two.

DA: Origins had a whole world to build from scratch, as did Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect 3 built upon that. The longer the development time, the bigger risk any company takes in developing it, that's a fact. Again - there are certain calculated deadlines that fit into a given budget and forecast, we know neither for ME3. Diablo III did receive quite a backlash as well, even though it took over 10 years of development - it might have been successfull financially, but left quite a few fans very disappointed in it nonetheless (myself included, haven't touched it after finishing it twice). So development time never equals success - be it commercial- or quality-wise

And lol at people defending gamble, if you work in a company you feel loyalty to your coworker, of course he's going to get mad after who knows how many insults he got, but that still doesn't excuse in what Bioware did. Meaning they screwed us.

If you want to imply I'm a co-worker of his, I can assure you I'm not. And I didn't feel screwed by BioWare. Of course I was disappointed with aspects of the ending, but felt they made good on that in the EC.

[legion999]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I understand them. I try to keep that anger I have about the endings in check, but it just bubbles over when I read something about Bioware, especially when or how they interact with fans.

I can't speak for the one you quoted, but in my opinion you interact with the fans well (if that's what the emoticon's for).

[Legendary Chop Chop]

Good on him, I gave him my support for not taking crap from people.

[paul165]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I understand them. I try to keep that anger I have about the endings in check, but it just bubbles over when I read something about Bioware, especially when or how they interact with fans.

Also not the quoted person but IMO:

Not you Allan, you and Joel are awesome and have interesting contributions to make. Plus you don't insult people which always helps.

Now go back to your own forums before you get all depressed.

edit for clarity:ph34r:

Modifié par paul165, 16 septembre 2012 - 11:41 .

[legion999]

Also who really cares? Mike used a swear word. Go onto nearly any comment section on youtube and you'll see worse.