78 réponses à ce sujet

[LiarasShield]

If the catalyst always resided in the citadel why didn't it help open the arms for soverign to let the reapers in and have the invasion happen during soverigns grand parade?


In mass effect 2 why not open the relay from the citadel or our system to  have the other reapers back up the collectors?

The catalyst seems to have zero or little to no involvement in the previous games so why would you introduce a new character in the last 10 minutes that is suppose to alter the entire story?

[Xellith]

[LiarasShield]

U_u

[Argolas]

Reaper kid can´t control the citadel arms, even in ME3. They remain closed until Shepard manages to open them, and reaper kid does not do anything about it.

[sheppard7]

Argolas wrote...

Reaper kid can´t control the citadel arms, even in ME3. They remain closed until Shepard manages to open them, and reaper kid does not do anything about it.

That had me wondering too. Why didn't the starbrat come forward saying, "Oh no you didn't!" and close them back?

[LiarasShield]

he had no involvement in the previous two games and if did always exist surely he could've found a way to let the reapers in during me1 or me2 the lack of involvement and a story altering character in the last 10 minutes is jarring.

[Sparda16]

I'm pretty sure that Javik was supposed to have been the Catalyst at some point, but the idea was axed due to time constraints, beta info leak, or something along them lines.

Also i thought the Reapers controlled the Keepers which were the caretakers of the Citadel? Surely the AI/Star Kid could of used the keepers to open the Citadel arms.

[Argolas]

sheppard7 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Reaper kid can´t control the citadel arms, even in ME3. They remain closed until Shepard manages to open them, and reaper kid does not do anything about it.

That had me wondering too. Why didn't the starbrat come forward saying, "Oh no you didn't!" and close them back?

It does not control the citadel, I consider that one fact. It could have done so much if it did, for example switch off life support, imagine what this would have meant for any resistance against the reapers.

[sheppard7]

Argolas wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Reaper kid can´t control the citadel arms, even in ME3. They remain closed until Shepard manages to open them, and reaper kid does not do anything about it.

That had me wondering too. Why didn't the starbrat come forward saying, "Oh no you didn't!" and close them back?

It does not control the citadel, I consider that one fact. It could have done so much if it did, for example switch off life support, imagine what this would have meant for any resistance against the reapers.

Someone or something controlled it enough to close the arms and bring it to Earth so it would be over London. Anderson was born in London don't forget. (Everytime London is mentioned on these forums, we need to remind people that Anderson was born in London)

[Argolas]

sheppard7 wrote...
Someone or something controlled it enough to close the arms and bring it to Earth so it would be over London. Anderson was born in London don't forget. (Everytime London is mentioned on these forums, we need to remind people that Anderson was born in London)

1) My bet is Illusive Man. He went to the citadel even before Priority: Earth, he has access to the console and he is indoctrinated.
2) Yes, Anderson was born in London, but I honestly do not understand what you try to tell me with that...

[Dubozz]

Xellith wrote...

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[EnvyTB075]

Argolas wrote...

Reaper kid can´t control the citadel arms, even in ME3. They remain closed until Shepard manages to open them, and reaper kid does not do anything about it.

Am i honestly supposed to believe he is essentially under self imposed house arrest?

[Gervaise]

The starkid is just a convenient holographic representation that the consciousness knows will appeal to Shepard. In Mass Effect 1 we are told that the Protheans were aware that the Citadel had some sort of connection to the reappearance of the Reapers and so planned to stop it in the future. They altered the programming of the Keepers and presumably this also locked the Catalyst out from much of the control of the Citadel. May be this also accounts for why Reaper victims in the form of dead bodies are littered around the area but no actual Reaper troops. The Protheans managed to make some sort of filter that only allowed in Organics or those that are predominately organics but as with Saran, they did not allow for the possibility of indoctrinated organics, hence the Illusive Man can get in.

So Shepard and Anderson get in and manage to open the arms. This also seems to allow the Catalyst to now communicate with Shepard and it knows it needs to do so in order to resume control of the Citadel and in turn the Mass Relays. Since the Catalyst and the Reapers wish to survive, once Shepard makes it to the Citadel they have to influence him not to destroy them, either by direct indoctrination or some other means - hence the admission that the old plan is no longer any good to them and need to come up with a new one. This is why if Shepard refuses to make a decision, the Reapers win by default - it may take longer than if they had control of the Citadel and Mass Relays but they can outlast a long war of attrition much better than the opposing forces can. This will also why the Catalyst makes the alternatives of Control and Sythesis seem so benign and preferable, leading Shepard to believe he/she will be making an heroic sacrifice to achieve them, whilst destroy is made to seem the least attractive and an innocent sounding child is made the vehicle to present them - listen carefully though and you will hear the echo of Harbinger behind the voice.

[Code_R]

Because the writers thought they knew better than "Our motives are beyond your comprehension". They genuinely seemed to think that a sudden bait and switch move at the finale after everything the rest of the trilogy had built towards was a good idea.

[xbb1024]

Its suggested the Reaper forces had to take the citadel as opposed to them always being there. At least that's how I interpreted the conversation in TIM's office.

[Sparda16]

Gervaise wrote...

The starkid is just a convenient holographic representation that the consciousness knows will appeal to Shepard. In Mass Effect 1 we are told that the Protheans were aware that the Citadel had some sort of connection to the reappearance of the Reapers and so planned to stop it in the future. They altered the programming of the Keepers and presumably this also locked the Catalyst out from much of the control of the Citadel. May be this also accounts for why Reaper victims in the form of dead bodies are littered around the area but no actual Reaper troops. The Protheans managed to make some sort of filter that only allowed in Organics or those that are predominately organics but as with Saran, they did not allow for the possibility of indoctrinated organics, hence the Illusive Man can get in.

So Shepard and Anderson get in and manage to open the arms. This also seems to allow the Catalyst to now communicate with Shepard and it knows it needs to do so in order to resume control of the Citadel and in turn the Mass Relays. Since the Catalyst and the Reapers wish to survive, once Shepard makes it to the Citadel they have to influence him not to destroy them, either by direct indoctrination or some other means - hence the admission that the old plan is no longer any good to them and need to come up with a new one. This is why if Shepard refuses to make a decision, the Reapers win by default - it may take longer than if they had control of the Citadel and Mass Relays but they can outlast a long war of attrition much better than the opposing forces can. This will also why the Catalyst makes the alternatives of Control and Sythesis seem so benign and preferable, leading Shepard to believe he/she will be making an heroic sacrifice to achieve them, whilst destroy is made to seem the least attractive and an innocent sounding child is made the vehicle to present them - listen carefully though and you will hear the echo of Harbinger behind the voice.

You see, until the IT is proven right through future dlc then this is all speculation.

Bioware/EA have said the EC endings we have now are it and then will be no more ending dlc, so i find it hard to believe in the IT at this point.

That's unless Bioware/EA are lying(which we know their good at), we can only hope.

[Argolas]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Reaper kid can´t control the citadel arms, even in ME3. They remain closed until Shepard manages to open them, and reaper kid does not do anything about it.

Am i honestly supposed to believe he is essentially under self imposed house arrest?

No, I just said I am convinced that reaper kid can´t do it. I say it is not as powerful as it claims to be. It can´t control the citadel or it would have done something while the station was used during the war. Why would you send an indoctrinated spy to assassinate the council if you could simply open an airlock? It also can´t entirely control the reapers since they are independant beings.

If you want to hear my personal opinion:
You can do the creative work yourself and try to explain "catalyst", but basically reaper kid just makes no sense. It wiped out my second belief in the ME story and is the main reason why the ending is that bad.

[Someone With Mass]

Because Javik was supposed to be the Catalyst at first and that was too good of an idea, so it got scrapped.

Or maybe they prioritized the origin story of the Reapers above everything else, when it's really the most unnecessary thing to ever plague the trilogy, since it accomplishes absolutely nothing in terms of the more practical goal, which is stopping the Reapers.

Take notes from Vigil.

[DWH1982]

I tried figuring Star Brat out. Really, I did.

Unless there's a reason why I shouldn't, I think that, maybe, from now on, I'll just assume he's Harbringer trying to screw with Shepard's head. And very little he says should be taken seriously.

[sheppard7]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Reaper kid can´t control the citadel arms, even in ME3. They remain closed until Shepard manages to open them, and reaper kid does not do anything about it.

Am i honestly supposed to believe he is essentially under self imposed house arrest?

LOL. That's what they want you to believe. And now TIM closes the arms and brings the Citadel to Earth over London (damn... now have to say Anderson was born in London). Yet, starbrat who is supposed to be their leader can't do what a simple minion could do.

That's like Darth Vader not being able to handle something but a stormtrooper can.

[sheppard7]

DWH1982 wrote...

I tried figuring Star Brat out. Really, I did.

Unless there's a reason why I shouldn't, I think that, maybe, from now on, I'll just assume he's Harbringer trying to screw with Shepard's head. And very little he says should be taken seriously.

It was an attempt to troll Shepard basically.

[shodiswe]

sheppard7 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Reaper kid can´t control the citadel arms, even in ME3. They remain closed until Shepard manages to open them, and reaper kid does not do anything about it.

That had me wondering too. Why didn't the starbrat come forward saying, "Oh no you didn't!" and close them back?

Apparently the Proteans sabotaged the Catalysts control of the citadel, in essence, it's a reaper in a wheelchair... Can't move it's legs, arms or anything major..

Secondly, it would have been moronic of the catalyst to make itself known to the enemy.

Hello!!! Im here! the leader of the Reapers!! Their creator! I demand you let my reapers in to get the harvest going! And dont even think about sending in your millions of citadel habitants to pull out my circuits during the years it will take my forces to reach you!! That's right!! Im right here!!

Smartest Catalyst ever  

Modifié par shodiswe, 16 septembre 2012 - 02:56 .

[DWH1982]

sheppard7 wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...

I tried figuring Star Brat out. Really, I did.

Unless there's a reason why I shouldn't, I think that, maybe, from now on, I'll just assume he's Harbringer trying to screw with Shepard's head. And very little he says should be taken seriously.

It was an attempt to troll Shepard basically.

I haven't spent much time thinking it through, but yeah, that's basically it.

Honestly, as much as I don't like the whole synthetics vs. organics thing as the main motivation of the Reapers, I think it would have been a little more acceptable coming from Harbringer, rather than some character they yanked out of thin air. So, that's another reason.

I might (maybe) be willing to accept the given reason for the Reapers existance, but I think I'll just assume that they also have a strong sense of self preservation, and Star Brat is just Harby trying to prod Shepard into picking options for the crucible (synthesis, control) that would allow the Reapers to survive in some way.

[Obeded the 2nd]

I don't think he was in mind in ME1 or 2.

He could have been but I doubt it.

[DWH1982]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

I don't think he was in mind in ME1 or 2.

He could have been but I doubt it.

I'm sure he wasn't.

Which shows the pitfalls of doing a trilogy when you don't bother planning ahead.