513 réponses à ce sujet

[redBadger14]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Sp3c7eR wrote...

Frostbite 2 = Battlefield 3. And if any of you have played that, it's a beautiful game, cutting edge graphics and particle effects. I'm very happy to hear DA3 will run on that engine - the world of Thedas will look spectacular!

Because DICE made it. BioWare isn't DICE.

Not sure I understand your point.

DICE made the engine and was able to achieve those visuals featured in Battlefield 3 because of their knowledge of Frostbite after having worked on it for so many years. Battlefield 3 is also a next-generation game designed to take advantage of modern PC hardware. Dragon Age 3 will be targeting current-generation consoles that are close to eight years old. 

People going into this expecting DA3 to compete with BF3 on a visual level will be very disappointed.

This in absolutely no way makes any sense. Do you even know what you are talking about?

Mass Effect 2 and 3 ran on the Unreal Engine, which is made by Epic Games. So, according to your logic, only Epic Games can do well with the Unreal Engine. Wrong. BioWare did a fantastic job with the Unreal Engine; graphics were fantasic, the third-person shooting gameplay was good, and the physics were largely present. In fact, the Unreal Engine is the most widely used game engine in the world. So, again, according to your logic this must mean all those developers can't possibly make as great a game on the Unreal Engine as Epic Games would. Again, wrong.

Just because DICE so far has been the only company to develop on Frostbite 2 (which they created), does not mean BioWare, or any other company that could acquire the engine, would be incapable of developing on it as opposed to DICE. The guys at BioWare are perfectly capable of learning the ins and outs of Frostbite 2 and making a great game with it. In fact, I guarantee you they already have done things on DA3 with Frostbite 2. 

DA3 will be capable of fantastic visuals and particle effects, vast environments, and more. Doesn't mean the focus will be mainly the visuals or whatever, but the potential to do so many things with DA with Frostbite 2 is there, and you can bet BioWare will tinker with it. 

It's absolutely absurd to assume BioWare won't be able to do a good job with the engine. Will DA3 look as impressive as BF3? I doubt it, but that's more of a direction BioWare will take with the art style than being limited by the engine. Also, BF3 was released on 360 and PS3 as well, and still retained fantastic visuals. Not as good as the PC version, but there it is. 

Modifié par redBadger14, 23 septembre 2012 - 03:08 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

DICE made the engine and was able to achieve those visuals featured in Battlefield 3 because of their knowledge of Frostbite after having worked on it for so many years. Battlefield 3 is also a next-generation game designed to take advantage of modern PC hardware. Dragon Age 3 will be targeting current-generation consoles that are close to eight years old. 

You realize that Battlefield 3 was also released on the current generation consoles.

Frostbite also has is some really impressive memory management stuff with level streaming as well as very good LOD support.


I actually agree that anyone expecting BF3 level of fidelity will probably be disappointed, but that's as much due to our art style goals than our actual abilities to make stuff look good.

Yes, I know BF3 is on consoles. I also know that it runs on the lowest settings on those consoles. Don't get me wrong, Frostbite 2 scales really well and it still looks 'good' on consoles, but still low settings and smaller levels and player count in the multiplayer.

Look at it from my perspective. It's hard to have confidence in the DA team after DA2's lackluster visual presentation. Origins didn't look that good either. Both games still look worse than ME2 and ME3.

[Allan Schumacher]

Don't get me wrong, Frostbite 2 scales really well and it still looks 'good' on consoles, but still low settings and smaller levels and player count in the multiplayer.

I don't agree with the "small levels" in BF3.  Many of the MP maps are quite large.  Even the single player and co-op still have some decently large levels.

Having said that, I do know that they drop the LOD a lot for the consoles.

It's hard to have confidence in the DA team after DA2's lackluster visual presentation. Origins didn't look that good either. Both games still look worse than ME2 and ME3.

That's fair.  Also,both games were also built on an engine that had roots back to 1999.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 23 septembre 2012 - 05:33 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Don't get me wrong, Frostbite 2 scales really well and it still looks 'good' on consoles, but still low settings and smaller levels and player count in the multiplayer.

I don't agree with the "small levels" in BF3.  Many of the MP maps are quite large.  Even the single player and co-op still have some decently large levels.

Having said that, I do know that they drop the LOD a lot for the consoles.

It's hard to have confidence in the DA team after DA2's lackluster visual presentation. Origins didn't look that good either. Both games still look worse than ME2 and ME3.

That's fair.  Also,both games were also built on an engine that had roots back to 1999.

The levels aren't dramatically downsized, but they have to be made smaller when you only have 24 players on a map. They sort of did the same thing with the Bad Company games. The maps were smaller than the ones in BF2 for the same reason.

The COD games run on Id Tech 3, which also dates back to 1999. They still manage to look quite nice today thanks to IW and Treyarch upgrading it with each new game.

Honestly, I would have expected something along the lines of "well, we just didn't have the time to upgrade the tech". DA2's dev cycle was pretty damn short as I recall.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 23 septembre 2012 - 05:50 .

[Allan Schumacher]

The levels aren't dramatically downsized, but they have to be made smaller when you only have 24 players on a map. They sort of did the same thing with the Bad Company games. The maps were smaller than the ones in BF2 for the same reason.

Are there maps on the PC version of the game that just aren't available on the console version?

[Peer of the Empire]

sweet

[Anthadlas]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Frostbite also has is some really impressive memory management stuff

Does that mean we can get weapon holstering this time?

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The levels aren't dramatically downsized, but they have to be made smaller when you only have 24 players on a map. They sort of did the same thing with the Bad Company games. The maps were smaller than the ones in BF2 for the same reason.

Are there maps on the PC version of the game that just aren't available on the console version?

Accoroding to DICE, no content was cut for the console versions.

"We've scaled the maps accordingly for console so it makes the pacing all right and the balancing is good," Liu added. "If you play a big Conquest map then the map is balanced accordingly." - DICE producer Patrick Liu

Source.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 23 septembre 2012 - 02:39 .

[Deventh]

What i don't like about this new engine is that it will ruin some of the character's faces and/or bodies. I'm 99% sure that it will happen.

[FedericoV]

El Mito wrote...

There's something sadly comical about how they are hyping up character customization in an RPG coming out in 2013.

: so true. Now that even action games and date sim has customization.

Having said that: Frostbyte is a great engine. But what really makes the difference is the art direction and the effort/time they put in creating the game.

Modifié par FedericoV, 23 septembre 2012 - 07:51 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Wraith 02 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Frostbite also has is some really impressive memory management stuff

Does that mean we can get weapon holstering this time?

DA2 already "holstered" weapons.

[Brockololly]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Frostbite also has is some really impressive memory management stuff

Does that mean we can get weapon holstering this time?

DA2 already "holstered" weapons.

Dragon Age still needs proper holsters aka sheaths. Or at least not have them floating on people's backs.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Frostbite 2 engine? Great. Perhaps we can now have bow strings? *runs*

[NRieh]

Question for those familiar with this engine - what you think are DA3 estimated sys requirements?
Anything is known about how this engine behaves on low and mid systems? Fast and ugly? Slow but beautiful?

DA2 had some huge issues with non-DX9 render (especially - after installing DLCs) and DX9 render was locked with crap textures. Which was very disappointing.

[byzantine horse]

Nrieh wrote...

Question for those familiar with this engine - what you think are DA3 estimated sys requirements?
Anything is known about how this engine behaves on low and mid systems? Fast and ugly? Slow but beautiful?

DA2 had some huge issues with non-DX9 render (especially - after installing DLCs) and DX9 render was locked with crap textures. Which was very disappointing.

I'd expect same reqs as BF3 - Generals 2 will have the very same reqs so DA3 ought to as well. As a pinpointer though alot of people can easily play BF3 on low (which still looks great) even with older graphical cards. I could play it on high without too much of a hassle on my GTX 460 and my GTX 560Ti handles it without any trouble at all. If the framerate tanks occasionally it is due to my lacking Phenom CPU, need to get on upgrading that one...

[EpicBoot2daFace]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Frostbite also has is some really impressive memory management stuff

Does that mean we can get weapon holstering this time?

DA2 already "holstered" weapons.

Sorry Allan...but as far as I could tell the rogue's weapons were floating on his back. Understand what you mean though and they were not in the rogues hand as 'in they were holstered'. They just did not look like that.

Skyrim does the same thing with it's two-handed weapons. It has nothing to do with memory. It has everything to do with practicality. That said, I don't see why the one-handed weapons cannot be sheathed.



Hmm... or maybe because it would be difficult to animate the character grabbing his sword and shield if they aren't together or if the shield isn't always equipped like in Skyrim? That's probably why.

And yes, it's kind of pathetic that they don't have bow string on the bows. But this shouldn't have anything to do with the game engine. It's just bad design, and one that should have been corrected in Dragon Age 2.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 24 septembre 2012 - 01:46 .

[goofyomnivore]

Dragon Age still needs proper holsters aka sheaths. Or at least not have them floating on people's backs.

This

Frostbite 2 engine? Great. Perhaps we can now have bow strings? *runs*

And this

The 'little' things go a long ways sometimes.

[tmp7704]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

And yes, it's kind of pathetic that they don't have bow string on the bows. But this shouldn't have anything to do with the game engine. It's just bad design, and one that should have been corrected in Dragon Age 2.

It actually has everything to do with the game engine -- the engine used for DAO seems to lack support for skinned/animated attachments (or for whatever reason it was decided to leave these pieces rigid) and having static bow strings would likely look even worse than leaving them out altogether.

The lack of animation on these pieces is weird as in contrast another kind of 'attachments' i.e. meshes used to put together character's body and/or armour do animate. In any case, it wasn't really addressed in DA2. Though maybe Varric was an experiment in that direction, who knows.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

tmp7704 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

And yes, it's kind of pathetic that they don't have bow string on the bows. But this shouldn't have anything to do with the game engine. It's just bad design, and one that should have been corrected in Dragon Age 2.

It actually has everything to do with the game engine -- the engine used for DAO seems to lack support for skinned/animated attachments (or for whatever reason it was decided to leave these pieces rigid) and having static bow strings would likely look even worse than leaving them out altogether.

The lack of animation on these pieces is weird as in contrast another kind of 'attachments' i.e. meshes used to put together character's body and/or armour do animate. In any case, it wasn't really addressed in DA2. Though maybe Varric was an experiment in that direction, who knows.

That's because it has nothing to do with the engine or how things are animated.

[tmp7704]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

That's because it has nothing to do with the engine or how things are animated.

... lack of animation capability in the game engine has nothing to do with the game engine and/or how it animates things?

what

[Punahedan]

You bake the animations into the joints of the characters and objects. At least, for UDK, you do. Other software is used for the modeling, texturing, and animation.

A game is like a piece of red velvet chocolate cake. The engine is the fluffy, moist red velvet cake on which the chocolate creamcheese frosting is delivered. The chocolate creamcheese frosting being the important models and textures and animations. The engine makes it taste right, so to speak. Straight-up frosting is just not really a good cake.

The engine controls lighting and level of detail (details over a large distance and how it disappears; rendering objects in full detail when it's on the other side of the map makes no sense).

In other words, I'm pretty psyched for Frostbite. It's gonna be preeeeetty.

Modifié par Hawkeyed Cai Li, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:47 .

[craigdolphin]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I actually agree that anyone expecting BF3 level of fidelity will probably be disappointed, but that's as much due to our art style goals than our actual abilities to make stuff look good.

i suspect you're right. I really wish you would revise the art style goals and return to a more realistic aesthetic. I felt the cartoony and exagerated art style chosen for DA2 undermined the seriousness of the game's themes. Plus i just really hated the darkspawn and elf retcons.

[axl99]

I remember the many nights of frustration wrangling with the camera system in Unreal Engine 3 [which is old by today's standards] because I was so used to how it works in 3ds Max and Maya. I can't even begin to imagine what that's like with FrostByte. But last time I tweeted at a dev about it, he seemed to be having a grand old time on his end.

I doubt DICE would ever licence out their Frostbyte engine for indy devs or students to play around in to see what else it does, but hey, there's always CryEngine and UDK.