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[Maria Caliban]

"Also?"
What the hell? Is that even proper English? I'm no expert by that looks really off. Shouldn't it say:
 
"I'm here to set things right, well, also to look dashing, but that just comes naturally."

Your 'correction' is the prose equivalent of squirting ketchup on a porterhouse.

You added an interjection, an adverb, and a 'just,' and then smooched together short, snappy sentences to create a longer one that has no rhythm to it. That's not the language of a dashing rogue. That's the language of Polly Poorbuckets, the shy intern from accounting.

Also? Run on sentences are not proper English.

[Bob from Accounting]

Classic Polly. Accounting is no place for wimps.

[dutch_gamer]

"Also?"

What the hell? Is that even proper English? I'm no expert by that looks really off. Shouldn't it say:

 

"I'm here to set things right, well, also to look dashing, but that just comes naturally."

Does everyone use proper English in every day life? Quotes/blurbs are completely in character.

 

I assume the writers aren't responsible for these marvelous quotes.

I assume they are. The quotes and blurbs are in character. Most people don't speak nor type in proper English in every day life so then why should characters in a game be made to speak proper?

[Kallimachus]

Is that such a bad thing? If he is the gay option (god willing, i'm planning to romance him on first play through with my male elf mage), I'm so glad that he seems to have personality and swagger and hasn't been made bland and inoffensive and politically correct ala Cortez. There's nothing wrong with characters with stereotypical qualities as long as they are rounded out and given depth. Flamboyant guys are hot. 

 

Yes, it is. Because it dehumanizes and places people in little tight boxes. Gay men are men like every other man. They are not all into fashion (and for whoever it was that wrote on a past post that saying that gwy men are fashionistas is a "positive" stereotype, I have to disagree - nothing positive about being a fashionista, for that matter, I don't believe that there is such a thing as a "positive stereotype"). Not all gay men are interested in physical beauty. Not all gay men are dashing or excited about opera, ballet, or musicals. Not all gay men enjoy antiquing. Not all men appreciate furnishing, decoration, or interior design.

Using supposedly "positive" sterotypes is as pernicious as using negative ones, only more insidious. If "black men are good at sports", then it is OK to assume they have nothing to say about other stuff, and OK to not encourage black children to aspire to other careers. If "Jews are smart and good with money" then it's OK to blame on them any financial crisis that ocurrs. If "women are caring, nurturing, and maternal", then it's OK not to want one as a military officer, or defence minister, or president, or a scientist (see above link). And if gay men are so flighty and interested just interested in art, fashion, and trivialities, then surely they should not be entrusted with the care of children (Yes, I have actually heard a member of the British House of Lords make that argument during the debate on marriage equality in England).

So, yes. It is a bad thing. A very bad thing.

 

Stereotypes are everywhere, if Iron Bull or Blackwall are straight at the end (like Vega from ME3 for example) that's also a stereotype.
 

We have a quite a lot of LGTB characters in Bioware: Steve, Samantha, Zevran, Isabela, Merrill, Fenris, Anders, Herren, Wade, Sera... Dorian, if gay, will be the first flamboyant (we still don't know him.... but let's asume he is that way) gay character ever.I like politically involved characters like him or Anders and I hope he successes where Anders failed as a character and "politician"....

 

Sterotypes of straight men (especially white men) are less pernicious, because they are the dominating part of our culture and society. As a result, we have enough representations (both in our personal lives and in the culture around us), to have a more well rounded view of them. That said, there are pernicious elements to the stereotypes of straight white men - in that they internalize them (real men don't cry, real men do not express emotions etc.) and thus sacrifice elements of they could be.

 

As for the other LGBT characters you mention (and describing either Merill or Fenris as bisexual is extremely problematic, especially in this type of discussion, as these characters do not profess any sexual identity, Aside from Fenris' tryst with Isabela. there is no indication of their sexuality in the game aside from metagaming), I would say Herren and Wade were extermely stereotypical (likeable, perhaps, but stereotypical). And in a way so were Zevran and Isabels (the sexually insatiable or promiscuous bisexuals). Anders and Steve, admittedly were less stereotypically designed. As for Samantha... honestly, I didn't even realize she was a lesbian until after I finished the game, and read it online.

 

But I'll get off my soap box now, as this is not the purpose of this thread. I just get really ticked off by that kind of discourse.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

I think you'd want '****** Libanensis' ('Man of Lebanon') Hominis Libanus would be 'Lebanon of Man'. If I remember correctly.

 

EDIT: Though, judging from the filters you wouldn't have been able to. Curse the Greek prefix for Same being the same as the Latin word for man.

 

It's not really a prefix, it was never used as such in ancient greek (or was extremely unusual). We just turned it into a prefix for scientific use.

 

Same with 'hetero' and things like 'poly' (although the latter was occasionally used as a prefix, usually in 'hapax legomena' - words made up by the author to fit in a linguistic hole which their own language cannot fill)

 

In fact ****** and hetero both come from adjectives: 'ὁμός' meaning 'same' or 'joint' and 'ἕτερος' meaning 'different'.

 

That's partly the reason why saying 'hoemoesexual is incorrect technically - it should be homosexual with short 'o's.

 

 

Fun fact: if it was '****** libanensis' as you suggest, which seems likely, then there would be an additional pun, due to the fact that 'ensis' is the latin for 'sword'. Take from that what you will.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Also @Kallimachus, I don't want to quote the whole thing but I just want to say you're 100% correct, in my opinion, that there is no such thing as a positive stereotype.

 

Like, saying 'all women are good at cooking' is STILL sexist, even if it's in theory a positive thing to say.

 

Similarly, saying 'I like Arabic people' is just as racist as saying 'I hate Arabic people.

[Maria Caliban]

Yes, it is. Because it dehumanizes and places people in little tight boxes.

Flaming gay men exist. Butch lesbians exist. Deciding that you can't have them in game (or books, TV shows, films) because they're a 'stereotype' is just as dehumanizing as deciding that's all gay people can be.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Flaming gay men exist. Butch lesbians exist. Deciding that you can't have them in game (or books, TV shows, films) because they're a 'stereotype' is just as dehumanizing as deciding that's all gay people can be.

 

This is extremely true. 

 

There a tendency to jump on anything which may show a stereotype and make a big problem out of it.

 

It's only a real big problem if gay characters were consistently portrayed like that, or if the only gay character were like that. And we have had enough in dragon age to show that this simply won't be the case.

[Maclimes]

Everyone has some good points, and this is a worthwhile discussion, for sure.

 

But the Twitter Thread is probably not the place for it.

[Lebanese Dude]

 

 

Fun fact: if it was '****** libanensis' as you suggest, which seems likely, then there would be an additional pun, due to the fact that 'ensis' is the latin for 'sword'. Take from that what you will.

 

hahahaha

[TKavatar]

I don't know that the word "flaming" isn't homophobic in itself. Have you ever heard it attached to anything other than a gay man?

 

'Flaming' sword? 

[Beerfish]

Your 'correction' is the prose equivalent of squirting ketchup on a porterhouse.

You added an interjection, an adverb, and a 'just,' and then smooched together short, snappy sentences to create a longer one that has no rhythm to it. That's not the language of a dashing rogue. That's the language of Polly Poorbuckets, the shy intern from accounting.

Also? Run on sentences are not proper English.

I bet Polly is hawt though in a conservative sweater, bobby sox, librarian like glasses, hair in a pony tail fashion.  And what's wrong with ketchup on a porterhouse?  If it's good enough for my prime rib and escargot it's good enough for a porterhouse.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

'Flaming' sword? 

..

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

BioWare ‏@bioware 

Live in London or willing to travel? Our Community Team will be there & having a meet up next Friday!

Details here: https://www.facebook...664209245834/ …

 

Ugh wish I could go, I live near london but at that time I'm up in edinburgh for my sister's graduation

 

Sad times

[TKavatar]

Are you serious?

 

It was a joke, relax.

[ElitePinecone]

Can we take the Latin/English discussion elsewhere, please? This is not the place to have a pedantry contest.

[Hrungr]

User

I would pay money for a leatherbound copy of the Chant of Light.

 

User

TRUTH. We must petition @davidgaider and @PatrickWeekes to bring us a full version!

 

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes 

Why are you petitioning me? I just got here! Maybe if it were for Quarians...

 

User

...Because you did such a great job on Masked Empire and all!

 

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes

Thank you. Still wrong guy for Chant, though.

 

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes

@davidgaider You want Dave for Chant, @BioMaryKirby for Qun, @SherylChee for **** jokes.

[BioFan (Official)]

Excited for the Dorian Q&A we will probably get today!

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Sure it does, just looking through my Liddle & Scott, there are at least  pages dedicated for word that begin with that prefix. Examples? Homogastrios (coming from the same womb), Homoglossos (speaking the same language), homolektros (sharing the same bed), homologia (agreement), Homotaphos (buried together) etc. etc.

 

But those are examples of hapax legomena, or what were originally hapaz legomena.

 

They aren't prefixes in the same way 'epi' or 'pro' are, they were artificially added onto the front of words by authors, and did not come by through natural language.

 

In the same way you could argue 'camera' is a prefix, because i can say in a grammatically correct fashion 'camera-using' 'camera-film' or even 'camera-eating'.

 

By that logic basically any word is a prefix.

 

 

You can tell this by the actual meaning of those words: they mean intesnely logical things. 'Homogastrios' = same stomach, literally. 'Homoglossos' = same language, literally.

 

'Anagignosko', on the other hand, means 'I read' or 'I recognise accurately', despite literally meaning 'I know up'.

 

As a result of this, we know that the adjectival ****** and hetero certainly came first and were merely purposefully morphed to be useful for very specific occassions, and as a result we know that our prefix ****** comes from the adjective originally and not it's adapted prefix form.

 

******'s basic use in greek is as an adjective, not a prefix.

 

In addition, words artificially using '******' as a prefix are rather unusual, as a result of their hapax legomena roots, and are extremely rare in actual greek texts, with many just occurring once in the entire Iliad for example. 

 

This is a very different situation to words like 'anagignosko' or 'epanerchomai'.

 

 

 

@ElitePinecone, I disagree that this is pedantry, more intellectual discussion, but I shall cease now.

[Maclimes]

Thank you. Still wrong guy for Chant, though.

 

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes

@davidgaider You want Dave for Chant, @BioMaryKirby for Qun, @SherylChee for **** jokes.

 

Oh man, a nice leather-bound copy of the Chant of Light and the Tome of Koslun would be incredible.

 

And I wouldn't say "no" to the Thedas Bathroom Reader, either.

[Eudaemonium]

Flaming gay men exist. Butch lesbians exist. Deciding that you can't have them in game (or books, TV shows, films) because they're a 'stereotype' is just as dehumanizing as deciding that's all gay people can be.

Just out of curiosity (and I might be wrong here, my gay history is mostly second hand) but didn't a lot of what we think of as stereotypical 'gay behaviour' develop so that gay men (unsure about lesbians here) were able to identify each other without heterosexual people realising. Almost like a kind of thieves' cant that included body language. As homosexuality has become more widely known in the west, and the stereotypes have been popularised by the media and entertainment industries, these behaviours have become 'known' to the point that they have lost their original function.

Basically, my point is that in a world like Thedas where homosexuality is not actively repressed would 'stereotypical' gay behaviours have actually developed at all? (And conversely, if homosexuality is actually repressed in somewhere like Tevinter, as I've heard around here, it might actually make more sense for Dorian to ascribe to them, if he is gay/bi. Though that is assuming that the same mannerisms developed, which is a giant leap of logic in itself)

[Miyaserie]

A leatherbound copy of the Chant would be a must-buy for sure. Maybe preorders would get a nice little pamphlet of Sheryl's tasteful jokes as a bonus?

Also, I'm getting my Masked Empire on monday, finally. Gah that book was so hard to get hold of.

[Kallimachus]

This is extremely true. 

 

There a tendency to jump on anything which may show a stereotype and make a big problem out of it.

 

It's only a real big problem if gay characters were consistently portrayed like that, or if the only gay character were like that. And we have had enough in dragon age to show that this simply won't be the case.

 

 

But that's not the issue here. We don't have a character who is gay and has some stereotypical qualities. We have a character with some stereotypes, so he's assumed to be gay.

 

That is annoying.

[ElitePinecone]

Mike Laidlaw ‏@Mike_Laidlaw  2m

.@user Difficulties work just as before, though normal's getting a bit of a bump so it's more challenging than DAII.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

Are you serious?

I've heard of flamers. You know, on the internet?