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The Dragon Age Twitter Thread


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#5476
GithCheater

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BasilKarlo wrote...

snip

We know we can only be human. We know we get to choose from non-playable backgrounds. We know companions will have aesthetic armor customization. We know parts of the game take place in Orlais. We know the game is larger than Origins.

snip


Pfft.  You forgot to mention that DAI has try sexual companions ...

These are all vague statements that contain generic insubstantial information and  absolutely no details.  Bioware has "irrefutably" provided a slow drip of vague teases and, as many other posters have mentioned, has not been doing any "telling".

#5477
Steppenwolf

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GithCheater wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

snip

We know we can only be human. We know we get to choose from non-playable backgrounds. We know companions will have aesthetic armor customization. We know parts of the game take place in Orlais. We know the game is larger than Origins.

snip


Pfft.  You forgot to mention that DAI has try sexual companions ...

These are all vague statements that contain generic insubstantial information and  absolutely no details.  Bioware has "irrefutably" provided a slow drip of vague teases and, as many other posters have mentioned, has not been doing any "telling".


Are you honestly trying to say that none of the details I listed are at all important?
You know you get nothing out of "defending" BioWare, right? There is no award for most deluded BSN poster. No gold star for nodding along to everything Preistly says.

#5478
Fast Jimmy

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Gwawr wrote...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of BioWare's 'show not tell' policy was that they weren't going to rely on PR spin, such as the now infamous 'push a button and something AWESOME happens' phrase, to sell the game. Instead they would give only pure facts and let us all make up our own minds about it.


How are statments like "Push a button and something Awesome will happen" or "Its not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B or C" any less vague or spinish as "the next game will be set somewhere much more French?"

Vague, vapor-esque promises made by developers before the release of the game are still vague, vapor-esque promises made by develoeprs before the release of the game if they are on Twitter or in a YouTube promo video. 

If Bioware has more to show than this when the reveal happens (as we assume they do), then awesome. It would be an improvement over using that same form of communication/advertsising throughout the entire build up to the release like what we saw with DA2 and ME3. 

But I don't think anyone should pretend that Bioware is not engaging in the vague, fluff statements as a way to keep interest in the game alive. After all, Tweets and forum posts from devs are turning into Examiner articles, for Pete's sake. Its accomplishing the feat of buzz generation while giving absoultely no real concrete information about the game. That's the very antithesis of "show, don't tell." I don't care if they do it, but, at the same time, no one should be acting like there is some kind of weird marketing moral high ground and/or that Bioware is walking it.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 01 mai 2013 - 02:43 .


#5479
Dio Demon

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BasilKarlo wrote...

GithCheater wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

snip

We know we can only be human. We know we get to choose from non-playable backgrounds. We know companions will have aesthetic armor customization. We know parts of the game take place in Orlais. We know the game is larger than Origins.

snip


Pfft.  You forgot to mention that DAI has try sexual companions ...

These are all vague statements that contain generic insubstantial information and  absolutely no details.  Bioware has "irrefutably" provided a slow drip of vague teases and, as many other posters have mentioned, has not been doing any "telling".


Are you honestly trying to say that none of the details I listed are at all important?
You know you get nothing out of "defending" BioWare, right? There is no award for most deluded BSN poster. No gold star for nodding along to everything Preistly says.


Really, GithCheater was just stating his interpretation of what BioWare is doing, there is no need for demeaning adjectives.

Seriously people let's get back to what really matters ... THE TWEETS! I needz the tweets, precious they are!

#5480
Stella-Arc

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I need them, I need them, I need them, I neeeeeeeed them!

Please don't take the tweets away. They are what is keeping me sane. We'll be good....probably.

#5481
Guest_Puddi III_*

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Gwawr's comment would be kind of a strawman were it not for the fact that Gwawr actually said it. But I would like to correct them for being wrong, because the notion that the devs meant they were going to turn off the PR spin is just silly. Or if they did mean that, anyone reasonable should take that with the most giant grain of salt because they're obviously not going to do that.

Modifié par Filament, 01 mai 2013 - 02:49 .


#5482
Stella-Arc

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Filament wrote...

Gwawr's comment would be kind of a strawman were it not for the fact that Gwawr actually said it. But I would like to correct them for being wrong, because the notion that the devs meant they were going to turn off the PR spin is just silly. Or if they did mean that, anyone reasonable should take that with the most giant grain of salt because they're obviously not going to do that.


"And just like that, the magic is gone." :mellow:

#5483
Irenie

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

 *snippity*


I don't think their tweeting has anything to do with trying to sell people the game though. What they're saying isn't being used [by them] to line articles or trailers (granted, I didn't know about the Examiner articles). They're simply talking about their experiences making the game sometimes amongst themselves and sometimes directly to fans, but it doesn't seem like they're intentionally trying to broadcast anything.

But, it seems I might be misunderstanding things a little, so I'll concede. ^_^

Modifié par Gwawr, 01 mai 2013 - 03:37 .


#5484
Guest_Puddi III_*

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I am just saying that as a consumer you have to be a little savvy and understand the kind of vague, obfuscating, sometimes misleading language that is the stock and trade of marketing, and the kind of expectations you can actually take from it, so as not to constantly feel as though you've been lied to by those dastardly corporations. I didn't mean that to be an insult to either Gwawr or the devs, it's just the way the system is set up. (Yeah! **** the system!)

#5485
Chris Priestly

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Ok a couple of points:

1 - I do not have the power to stop Devs tweeting. However, I can point out to the team leads that fans are confused over what is tweeted by the team and the "show don't say" policy. It would be up to them if they wanted to ask the team to stop tweeting about the game since that policy is very important to the team.

2 - I don't think that needs to be done. It seems a few people either do not understand the difference or do not care about the difference. The whole thing started because one person I quoted said we were ignoring our own policies, which we are not, and then proceeded to tell me how I was wrong when I clarified the point. If this doesn't matter to you, great. If it matters, but you like the DA team tweeting anyways, great. If it matters to you and you think there is something wrong with us tweeting as it invalidates our claim, I would suggest you stay away from Twitter or this thread or these forums until such time as we do show instead of tell.

So, lets put all this behind us and go back to Dev tweets.

Speaking of which, next sprint review day is next Friday, May 10. :)



:devil:

#5486
Zeldrik1389

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Speaking of which, next sprint review day is next Friday, May 10. :)

:devil:


Best news I've heard today :)) Thanks Chris. Any another important date that we should be aware of? :whistle:

#5487
Chris Priestly

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Zeldrik1389 wrote...

Best news I've heard today :)) Thanks Chris. Any another important date that we should be aware of? :whistle:


Yep, the release date. which is...

something I can't tell you yet.



:devil:

#5488
Guest_PurebredCorn_*

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Awwww, I hate it when I miss a good dog pile. Dammit! XD

#5489
sandalisthemaker

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Yep, the release date. which is...

something I can't tell you yet.


So does that mean that there is a set in stone release date and all of you mucky mucks know when it is?

#5490
Guest_Puddi III_*

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Yep, the release date. which is...

something I can't tell you yet.



:devil:

Wait, you plan on telling us the release date?! Betrayal! I demand you write the release date on an index card and show it instead! :P

Modifié par Filament, 01 mai 2013 - 04:42 .


#5491
Stella-Arc

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

Best news I've heard today :)) Thanks Chris. Any another important date that we should be aware of? :whistle:


Yep, the release date. which is...

something I can't tell you yet.



:devil:


Pure evil....

*curls up into a ball and cries* 

#5492
BioFan (Official)

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

Best news I've heard today :)) Thanks Chris. Any another important date that we should be aware of? :whistle:


Yep, the release date. which is...

something I can't tell you yet.



:devil:


Well I'm glad to know they at least have one... wait, do you guys actually have a date set? You don't have to tell me, it's just nice to know the game is far enough along. 

#5493
clst

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Chris Priestly wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...
Yeah, saying how awesome the game looks without showing us how awesome it looks it telling, not showing. They haven't stuck with their "show, don't tell" policy one little bit.


Sorry, I disagree. We have stuck to the policy 100%.

Neither BioWare nor Dragon Age has said officially how awesome it looks in interviews, on our channels, etc (unless I have missed something. If so, please point it out). If you are choosing to follow staff via our personal channels in unofficial capacity where we talk about how good it is or similar, that is not the same thing anymore than if Mark Darrah says "I like McDonald's fries" makes McDonalds the official fries of Dragon Age.

There is no harm in you following staff to see what we say about our work, jobs, lives, etc but do not confuse that for "official word from BioWare". It is not the same thing.


:devil:


wrong chris , because if you read that , "
"I think when we do start releasing screenshots, people won't be disappointed."



by Luke Karmali
January 22, 2013






























Dragon Age III: Inquisition is shaping up to be a visual feast thanks
to the new Frostbite 2 engine, according to BioWare's Neil Thompson.
Speaking to OXM,
Thompson revealed that the game's artists have been left disappointed
in the past over how their visions were realised using BioWare's own
Eclipse engine, but were now feeling very positive.



The Dragon Age artists were always slightly disappointed at how their
work was visualised in the final product with Eclipse, but with
Frostbite, they've just done some amazing stuff.

"Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 were both done using BioWare's
own Eclipse engine, and it was starting to creak a little bit when
Dragon Age 2 came out," Thompson admitted. "Inquisition is being done on
the Frostbite 2 engine and it is an astonishingly powerful engine."
He continued, "The Dragon Age artists were always slightly
disappointed at how their work was visualised in the final product with
Eclipse, but with Frostbite, they've just done some amazing stuff.
"There was a pre-production period where almost on a weekly basis I'd
be sitting in the environment reviews and being blown away by what was
coming out - it looks stunningly beautiful. So I think when we do start
releasing screenshots, people won't be disappointed."
He concluded by saying that the team were trying something different
to make the game stand out from the "subdued colour palette" of other
fantasy games, pondering "Can you make fantasy beautiful in a different
way? We think we have something special for Dragon Age III: Inquisition."
Seeing as Dragon Age II came under heavy fire for its reuse of
environments and textures, supposedly in a bid to cram more content into
the game, we're pretty sure this is a good move.
Not much is known about the next entry in the Dragon Age franchise, though it's possible we've already been shown one screenshot. It's also all but confirmed that the game will be heading to next-gen consoles and targeting a 2014 release."

#5494
ravnkl0

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Can we please just go back to our fine and dandy jovial nature. You know, geese, Sten, cookies, Sprint Day Reviews?

(and ignore the little kid stamping his feet and puffing his cheeks in the corner)

#5495
Fredward

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BasilKarlo wrote...
Are you honestly trying to say that none of the details I listed are at all important?
You know you get nothing out of "defending" BioWare, right? There is no award for most deluded BSN poster. No gold star for nodding along to everything Preistly says.


You know you get nothing out of acting like a five year old who wants his pudding nooooooooowwwwwwwwww right? You're reading these teasing tweets because you want to. Cuz like you yourself said only a  very small amount of rabidly fanatic DA fans are even aware of them. Bioware is not walking into your house, tying you to a chair and forcing you to watch  a slideshow-of-possible-wonder while continuously mocking you that you're not getting it yet. Stop throwing a tantrum because you're upset the devs are talking about a game they have every right to be excited about in a unofficial capacity. Which isn't violating any kind of company policy since most of these tidbits have come from individuals in a totally unofficial capacity and not from Bioware. Which seems to be two things you have trouble differentiating.



Anyway. YAY MORE VAGUE GENERALITIES ARE COMING! :P

#5496
Zeldrik1389

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

Best news I've heard today :)) Thanks Chris. Any another important date that we should be aware of? :whistle:


Yep, the release date. which is...

something I can't tell you yet.



:devil:


Dam!! *Flip the table*
Wait. Does that mean you guys do have a set release date? :o

#5497
Allan Schumacher

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That's a nonsensical argument. They've done presentations giving details about the game. They've posted on these forums giving us details on the game.


You're right, I have occasionally let out some of the details about some things that are being investigated, mostly because I try to qualify that they are often along the lines of being investigated and as such, are (hopefully) not seen as utter gospel about what is or is not definitively going to be a part of the game.

Now, if people really wish to rake us over the coals for not specifically adhering to the "show don't tell" policy, I will stop.

Given, Basil, you have repeatedly made posts about how you want MORE information and that you are getting very annoyed with the lack of information, and at one point even said you were leaving this forum until there was actual information, I think you're trying to actually say "It's okay to tell without showing, because you're already doing it!" In that you're hoping to illuminate to us that we needn't feel bound to our "show don't tell" ideal because we already haven't been, so on some level just open up the floodgates (even if just a crack).

Yes, there HAS been some stuff told (especially at the panels and the like), and especially in terms of things that are seen as controversial hot topics, especially on the boards. If you *really* think we should show a picture of an (unfinished) human character and say "This is the protagonist!" and a picture of the dialogue wheel to confirm that yes, in fact, we have the dialogue wheel, then I think you're living to the "letter of the law' a bit too specifically.

I (very occasionally) post vague DA3 tweets because I am under the impression that

a) I'm allowed to, and am not undermining any sort of marketing or project goals by doing so, so long as I exercise judgment in doing so.
B) There are a group of fans that enjoy it, even as they "lament" how they are agonizing for more information.

If you are not among the fans that enjoy the vagueness of our tweets and attempts to have some fun with the fanbase, I do encourage you to make proactive decisions that ultimately help minimize the level of frustration you experience in your life. DA3 will eventually be "fully revealed" with information flowing a lot more freely. So if you're finding these types of threads frustrating, as a human being I *do* encourage you to take a break and come back after that reveal, when there will be more active discussion about actual details of the game. There's no sense sticking around now, unless you're enjoying yourself in some capacity.


As a general post, if people are going to split hairs and attempt to coerce information out of us by any sort of, well, "aggressive" means (for lack of a better term) such as pointing out that we aren't really keeping true to our "show don't tell" philosophy, it is infinitely more likely that, at this time, it will result in even less information than is currently being shared now (which isn't much). And I use the term "infinitely" very specifically, because there is a zero percent chance of us suddenly deciding to be much more loose in terms of revealing DA3 information. The little tidbits of stuff that I personally have shared are things I *should not* have done, but did because in my judgment they are often small or stated in a way that is very non-committal. I am exceptionally worried about people grabbing on to something that I have said and treating it as gospel, and when I find my words being used in ways that I didn't anticipate or quoted, it serves as a reminder that "Maybe it might be safer for myself and my colleagues if I decided to just keep quiet in the short term."

In conclusion, we don't sit on DA3 information simply to torment our fans for our own amusement.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 01 mai 2013 - 06:53 .


#5498
cenariss

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Took a break from the forums in the hope I would come back to news, came back to ten extra pages in this thread and I was like: woohoo, then I was like: ah crap someone is being a twit again and then I was like WOOHOO SPRINT REVEIW ON THE 10TH!

#5499
ElitePinecone

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

In conclusion, we don't sit on DA3 information simply to torment our fans for our own amusement.


... well, there goes that theory.

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Gwawr wrote...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of BioWare's 'show not tell' policy was that they weren't going to rely on PR spin, such as the now infamous 'push a button and something AWESOME happens' phrase, to sell the game. Instead they would give only pure facts and let us all make up our own minds about it.


How are statments like "Push a button and something Awesome will happen" or "Its not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B or C" any less vague or spinish as "the next game will be set somewhere much more French?"


I think there's a very real difference between those two categories of statements (although I think the button thing is just nonsensical and unfortunate in general). Saying "our endings aren't like the usual A, B, C", whatever the full quote was, has a very high likelihood of making people expect - inadvertently or otherwise - an ending sequence that *isn't* discrete and straightforward. There isn't much ambiguity or subjectiveness there. When the reality of the content was different, a fair chunk of people looked at past statements with confusion and disappointment. Developer quotes promising specific things that contribute to false expectations are dangerous. 

"Somewhere more French" is definite, absolutely fundamental game content. They decided on the setting years ago, it's not going to change suddenly in the last two months of development, and it's not like we're going to open the game and find Mike was being totally misleading. There's no chance of that statement backfiring, or creating a mismatch of expectations, or leading people to take it as a promise. Ditto for the protagonist choice, or the choice to use the dialogue wheel again, or the choice to use Frostbite 3. Those things are all 'certain'.

Minimising statements that can lead to people having false expectations, and statements that can be interpreted as 'promises', is a very sensible decision. Casey's statements on the endings would fall under this category, I would think, whereas the vast majority of the DA team's tidbits do not. They're general statements about core gameplay systems and features, said in a way that indicates all of this is still being worked on. 

#5500
Firky

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Well, I'm just interested to see how the reveal will pan out, because something other than the usual preview/review cycle would be really nice.

I don't know. Make a careful montage that shows one of everything in the game, from whatever stuff there is, like improved cross class combos and new dialogue moments, for example, with absolutely no words spoken or information given, then let people figure it out for themselves.

(I guess more specific info would probably be required, for most people, at some stage, but still.)

(Edit: PS. From a press perspective, I'd say this approach might actually help to focus previews on facts and investigation, rather than commentary based on opinion. That's something I'd like to see, personally. I have no idea if anyone else would.)

Modifié par Firky, 01 mai 2013 - 07:44 .