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[dragondreamer]

Das Tentakel wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

Ruins looks too human for Halamshiral.

Halamshiral is an actual living city, so probably not.  But it doesn't look that different from the Brecilian forest ruins, which were elven.  (Not saying it's the same ruins, just comparing them visually.)  

If I remember correctly, the ruins were supposed to be Human, but with Elvish remains in them? 
Perhaps they didn't have the resources  to put distinctive Tevinter and Elvish architectural styles in DA:O.
I don't think we've seen Elvish architectural remains yet; it could be they still have to decide on a 'style' for it.
Perhaps, after DA2's fling with Brutalism / Stalinist Gothic, they are going to base proper ancient Elvish ruins on Deconstructivist architecture? 

I've seen people say that the ruins were human-made before, but I've never been able to find an actual source for that.  (Help?  If anything, I feel like I remember something about *dwarves* possibly being involved with those ruins, and that actually makes more sense in terms of the architecture being similar since many of the old human ruins were also dwarven made.)  But I agree with what you're saying about the same resources being used for all the ruins; I don't think we know what is "human-looking" versus "elven-looking" in the games as of yet.  

[Das Tentakel]

dragondreamer wrote...

Das Tentakel wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

Ruins looks too human for Halamshiral.

Halamshiral is an actual living city, so probably not.  But it doesn't look that different from the Brecilian forest ruins, which were elven.  (Not saying it's the same ruins, just comparing them visually.)  

If I remember correctly, the ruins were supposed to be Human, but with Elvish remains in them? 
Perhaps they didn't have the resources  to put distinctive Tevinter and Elvish architectural styles in DA:O.
I don't think we've seen Elvish architectural remains yet; it could be they still have to decide on a 'style' for it.
Perhaps, after DA2's fling with Brutalism / Stalinist Gothic, they are going to base proper ancient Elvish ruins on Deconstructivist architecture? 

I've seen people say that the ruins were human-made before, but I've never been able to find an actual source for that.  (Help?  If anything, I feel like I remember something about *dwarves* possibly being involved with those ruins, and that actually makes more sense in terms of the architecture being similar since many of the old human ruins were also dwarven made.)  But I agree with what you're saying about the same resources being used for all the ruins; I don't think we know what is "human-looking" versus "elven-looking" in the games as of yet.  

If memory serves me right, it's in the Dalish origin story. Also, the Brecilian ruins are stylistically the same as Andraste's tomb complex and the cellars underneath Ostagar. It may have been intended as Tevinter style, but that seems to be subject to constant retcons (DA2, comics, concept art).
There's also the question, of course, whether the Elves built in stone or were tree-hugging mystic drug users dreamin' away in treehuts and so on. In such a case, bye-bye any chance of substantial ruins.



Classical Elvish architecture?....

[dragondreamer]

I thought those were different ruins in the Dalish origin, but I haven't done a Dalish run yet, so I'll have a look, thanks.  

Cellars beneath Ostagar (the Tower of Ishal in general) was dwarven made, which fits with the idea of the Brecilian ruins being dwarven made.  And it's difficult to say who made Andraste's tomb, her allies were a vast assortment of slaves, including elves; and we find it watched over by Avvars.  But I honestly don't think we can tell much from what we've seen so far.  And yeah, the art style changes from game to game.

I'm actually inclined to think the elves were nature-huggy, but there's also stone ruins around the Uthenera site at Sundermount, which suggests it wasn't uncommon for them to use stone complexes for Uthenera purposes, if nothing else.  Which brings us back to the possibility of the artwork being an elven grave ruin or not...

[Das Tentakel]

dragondreamer wrote...

I thought those were different ruins in the Dalish origin, but I haven't done a Dalish run yet, so I'll have a look, thanks.  

Cellars beneath Ostagar (the Tower of Ishal in general) was dwarven made, which fits with the idea of the Brecilian ruins being dwarven made. 

Not stylistically, though. Note the difference between actual Dwarven architecture and surface structures like Ostagar or Kirkwall. I think this may be due to a big gap between the writers on the one hand, and the artists / modellers on the other hand. 'Dwarven-made' is penned down in a matter of seconds, but actually designing and modelling something in-game that reflects recognisable Dwarven cultural influence and building techniques is another thing altogether.

Other than that, I sure hope the art doesn't show 'Elvish' ruins, because they look generic as sin. I'd rather have them NOT putting in Elvish architecture than make it something like that.
But hey, concept art, so there's still hope :innocent:.

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 25 juillet 2013 - 11:34 .

[dragondreamer]

Eh, to each their own, I thought the concept art was atmospheric. And if the elves lived strictly in Ewok villages, that would still be seen as generic by someone given that elves are traditionally nature based. Regardless, I just want to dig more into the elves' history.

[Das Tentakel]

dragondreamer wrote...

Eh, to each their own, I thought the concept art was atmospheric. And if the elves lived strictly in Ewok villages, that would still be seen as generic by someone given that elves are traditionally nature based. Regardless, I just want to dig more into the elves' history.

Oh, the concept art by itself was okay, moody & al. I was mainly referring to the style (or lack of them) of the ruins.

[azarhal]

I think there is confusion about the ruins in Ferelden (in game I mean).

The Brecilian Forest ruins, Ostagar and lake Calenhad circle towers all use the same models, along with the Haven Temple. The first one is said to have been built by humans, but that elves also lived there with humans (mentioned in the Dalish recruiting quest). The second one is said to have been built by Tevinter to stop barbarian invasion from the Wilds. The third one was said to have been built by dwarves for the Avvar and also by Tevinter in DAO (the lore is in conflict here).

In the Dalish Origin, Duncan claims the mirroir is of Tevinter origin, but it's a Dalish artifact. I think we might have a case of historians giving Tevinter too much credits for structures dotting the landscape. That's why everyone think those were buitl by Tevinter, when the truth might be totally different...

[Das Tentakel]

azarhal wrote...

I think there is confusion about the ruins in Ferelden (in game I mean).

The Brecilian Forest ruins, Ostagar and lake Calenhad circle towers all use the same models, along with the Haven Temple. The first one is said to have been built by humans, but that elves also lived there with humans (mentioned in the Dalish recruiting quest). The second one is said to have been built by Tevinter to stop barbarian invasion from the Wilds. The third one was said to have been built by dwarves for the Avvar and also by Tevinter in DAO (the lore is in conflict here).

In the Dalish Origin, Duncan claims the mirroir is of Tevinter origin, but it's a Dalish artifact. I think we might have a case of historians giving Tevinter too much credits for structures dotting the landscape. That's why everyone think those were buitl by Tevinter, when the truth might be totally different...

They were probably all built by one of the Imperial building commissions from Cyrodiil, using the same templates but working for different employers. Then the Golden City turned black, and the interplanar highway to Tamriel no longer worked...

Maybe the next volume in the adventures of Decimus Scotti (Elder Scrolls VI?) will reveal all...

[ElitePinecone]

dragondreamer wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...


Best phrase in the whole thing: "Biker Mage." Lol XD.

Yes.  

And that new DA:I art calls out Elven Ruins to me.  Don't most humans and Andrastian society in general burn their dead?  Graves are more an Old Elven thing.  Unless we're talking Nevarra.

That's interesting, I'd forgotten that most of Andrastrian society doesn't bury their dead.

The marketing survey last November did mention uncovering ancient secrets, so perhaps it is very old elven. 

[Das Tentakel]

ElitePinecone wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...


Best phrase in the whole thing: "Biker Mage." Lol XD.

Yes.  

And that new DA:I art calls out Elven Ruins to me.  Don't most humans and Andrastian society in general burn their dead?  Graves are more an Old Elven thing.  Unless we're talking Nevarra.

That's interesting, I'd forgotten that most of Andrastrian society doesn't bury their dead.

The marketing survey last November did mention uncovering ancient secrets, so perhaps it is very old elven. 

How about Old 'pagan' Tevinter? Nothing about them burning their dead...if I remember correctly there were Tevinter tombstones in the Brecilian forest?

The concept art itself does not clearly show a graveyard as we would know it. Just nondescript ruins with something that looks like ye standard aulde genericke Neo-Gothic funerary monument. Funerary monuments are not necessarily part of a graveyard, they can also be inside a church, temple, vault etc. Nor do funerary monuments necessarily have to cover a grave with an actual body, but they can also mark the place, or be nearby a location where ashes were deposited.

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 25 juillet 2013 - 02:56 .

[azarhal]

ElitePinecone wrote...

That's interesting, I'd forgotten that most of Andrastrian society doesn't bury their dead.

The practice might be older than Andraste cults are, burning your dead means no demon possessing the corpses... If there was a time with a lots of demons running around (when mages were not watched...), that would be a "safety measure" more than a religious dogma.

[ElitePinecone]

Mark Darrah ‏@BioMarkDarrah
To clarify something from DA2

We didn't retcon Zevran back to life

The save state in DAO is messed

I realize that doesn't help

___

(That is all one tweet, Mr Darrah is a fan of the new line function)

[Beerfish]

simfamSP wrote...

Sister Goldring wrote...

 Hi, so David Gaider has posted a link to Matt Rhodes discussing his concept art for ME and DA2.  I found it fascinating and pretty damn awe inspiring.  Here's a link if you're interested.  Also Fenris torso tattoos!   

http://mattrhodesart...ind-scenes.html

I think this is the best BioWare blog so far.

And Tali... god, they should have just gone for it. Really break the Tali-mancers when they see their beloved Quarian was actually a goddamn ugly-ass bald alien with pale skin.

They should have kept that design but kept her eyes beautiful. It would have been such an awesome contrast, almost poetic really. Damn, what a shame.

SOMEONE REMAKE MASS EFFECT 3 ALREADY!

*pants*

Back to reading Order of the Stick, thanks for the link

I favor that 2nd image for tali but regardless any of those ideas and art work were 100 times better than the tacked on silly  photo they ended up with.  That is an awesome blog.

[Savber100]

Beerfish wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Sister Goldring wrote...

 Hi, so David Gaider has posted a link to Matt Rhodes discussing his concept art for ME and DA2.  I found it fascinating and pretty damn awe inspiring.  Here's a link if you're interested.  Also Fenris torso tattoos!   

http://mattrhodesart...ind-scenes.html

I think this is the best BioWare blog so far.

And Tali... god, they should have just gone for it. Really break the Tali-mancers when they see their beloved Quarian was actually a goddamn ugly-ass bald alien with pale skin.

They should have kept that design but kept her eyes beautiful. It would have been such an awesome contrast, almost poetic really. Damn, what a shame.

SOMEONE REMAKE MASS EFFECT 3 ALREADY!

*pants*

Back to reading Order of the Stick, thanks for the link

I favor that 2nd image for tali but regardless any of those ideas and art work were 100 times better than the tacked on silly  photo they ended up with.  That is an awesome blog.

Which is weird because that than implies that Bioware was actively looking for a good Tali face but then CHOOSE the stock photo... Super odd why they did that. 

[Ilidan_DA]

New info coming soon? EA to host Gamescom press conference.

[Bogrot]

Well, I'm hoping that the concept art picture above might be from Nevarra. They don't burn their dead, but instead embalm or mummify them. Also, they call spirits from the Fade into those prepared corpses.
Still, the text points more towards the elves being betrayed by humans.

[Fast Jimmy]

nightscrawl wrote...

I didn't want to make a topic just for this fun tidbit, so I'm going to post it here.

From a Polygon article...

BioWare concept artist Matt Rhodes has "pulled his pants down" in an artistic sense, as he says in his latest blog post, by sharing a handful of early and unused concept art for the Mass Effect and Dragon Age series.

There is some GREAT stuff there, including a bunch of different concepts of Fenris (what his [chest/back] markings look like underneath!), some interesting DAO-to-DA2 armor modifications, environments, darkspawn changes, and more.

Regarding the darkspawn specifically, I really like the reasoning he posts there, and I think it makes a lot of sense. I think the idea comes across in the concept art, but not in the final in-game version, which looks more skeleton-ish. Also, I always thought that their armor in DAO looked too sophisticated and was pleased with the changes to that in DA2; it helped to give the 'spawn a more unique look and reminded me of the crude forging we see from the orcs and such in the Lord of the Rings films.

Best phrase in the whole thing: "Biker Mage." Lol XD.

http://2.bp.blogspot...600/flemith.jpg

MY GOD. Why did they not go with this Flemeth model over the senior citizen BDSM look we wound up with in DA2? Good Lord, that was so terrible it was disgusting. This made her more menacing than in DA:O, but still grounded in reality, instead of her (timeline wise) dressing up in a Halloween costume to save Hawke and then going back to her matronly rags to (possibly) fight and be killed by the Warden.

[azarhal]

Bogrot wrote...

Well, I'm hoping that the concept art picture above might be from Nevarra. They don't burn their dead, but instead embalm or mummify them. Also, they call spirits from the Fade into those prepared corpses.
Still, the text points more towards the elves being betrayed by humans.

Lots of betrayal happened in Nevarra: Andraste betrayal happened there, Tevinter/Orlais "staying" after the 3rd Blight, General Tylus Von Markham taking over the throne. That's the one mentioned in the lore. World of Thedas mention that the city changed hand a lots of time after Andraste died until Caspar Pentaghast took over as well.

[Das Tentakel]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

http://2.bp.blogspot...600/flemith.jpg

MY GOD. Why did they not go with this Flemeth model over the senior citizen BDSM look we wound up with in DA2? Good Lord, that was so terrible it was disgusting. This made her more menacing than in DA:O, but still grounded in reality, instead of her (timeline wise) dressing up in a Halloween costume to save Hawke and then going back to her matronly rags to (possibly) fight and be killed by the Warden.

Presumably somebody in charge thought it a better idea to go for the Dominatrix look. An exchange of power and authority and some subtlety for an agressive and, erm, somewhat ripe sexuality.
But hey, we've been here before I think with some female characters in recent BioWare games.<_<
Or other studios' games for that matter. At least BioWare's Dominatrices are voiced by well-known actresses, huzzah!

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 25 juillet 2013 - 08:57 .

[Bogrot]

azarhal wrote...

Bogrot wrote...

Well, I'm hoping that the concept art picture above might be from Nevarra. They don't burn their dead, but instead embalm or mummify them. Also, they call spirits from the Fade into those prepared corpses.
Still, the text points more towards the elves being betrayed by humans.

Lots of betrayal happened in Nevarra: Andraste betrayal happened there, Tevinter/Orlais "staying" after the 3rd Blight, General Tylus Von Markham taking over the throne. That's the one mentioned in the lore. World of Thedas mention that the city changed hand a lots of time after Andraste died until Caspar Pentaghast took over as well.

Andraste's betrayal really stands out. And if we're lucky we might learn a lot about her betrayal if we travel to Nevarra. It could even be a part of the storyline a la Sacred Ashes!

[rapscallioness]

Giubba1985 wrote...

"The graves of our ancestors are littered with the bones of long-forgotten betrayals"

https://pbs.twimg.co...A6Kyq.jpg:large

All the betraying stuff is more orlisian related imho.

who's the statue of? Far right hand side of pic. W/the hoodie and hands crossed in front?

[Nerevar-as]

Sister Goldring wrote...

 Hi, so David Gaider has posted a link to Matt Rhodes discussing his concept art for ME and DA2.  I found it fascinating and pretty damn awe inspiring.  Here's a link if you're interested.  Also Fenris torso tattoos!   

http://mattrhodesart...ind-scenes.html

With ME3, it looks we dodged quite a few bullets there, which considering some of the ending results, isn´t saying much. Synthesis making even less sense than what appeared in the game is hard to believe, but there it was.

With DA2, other way around. Don´t know how they could think those designs were an improvement, and sorry, but if those listed were the goals of the redesign, excepting the armor part, it failed miserably. Would like to see how they justify shrieks and genlocks considering the intent of the hurlocks too.

[TribolMan]

rapscallioness wrote...

Giubba1985 wrote...

"The graves of our ancestors are littered with the bones of long-forgotten betrayals"

https://pbs.twimg.co...A6Kyq.jpg:large

All the betraying stuff is more orlisian related imho.

who's the statue of? Far right hand side of pic. W/the hoodie and hands crossed in front?

Probaby just random generic hoodie statue not anyone special

[Das Tentakel]

TribolMan wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

who's the statue of? Far right hand side of pic. W/the hoodie and hands crossed in front?

Probaby just random generic hoodie statue not anyone special

Probably Zebedeus von Hoodie VII, not to be confused with Zebedeus von Hoodie VI en Zebedeus von Hoodie VIII, who have identical statues. Not to mention the numerous other departed members of the ancient and noble lineage of the von Hoodies.
Knowing CRPG's, chances are we will get sick of the same statue reused ad nauseam in the dungeons 

(seriously, hope we get some variety in the 'décor' of the dungeons)

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 25 juillet 2013 - 11:30 .

[rapscallioness]

...really? you think it's just random. generic hoodie statue? you guys went on for quite awhile abt whether the ruins were elven, or human, or dwarven and the diff in architecture. but there's a statue right there which is prolly an indicator of what the ruins are actually abt., and you think it's just sum stuff.

maybe it is just sum stuff, but I'm surprised at you bsn.