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[Grog Muffins]

Dirgegun wrote...

Ericander77 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

I think coronation was just a name for that scene that someone used offhandedly, it seems strange to refer to someone becoming Inquisitor as a "coronation".

Wonder where that is, by the way - Val Royeux?

Perhaps inauguration is better? Instatement? Investiture?

I kinda wonder what we did so speacial to beat Casandra to the position, I mean, did we beat her in a object stabbing competition? 

The Devs have said that we become the Inquisitor because we were in the area where the veil ripped open and was the only one to survive it, so we know more than others do about the event itself? I think that's it, anyway...

That's one possible explanation but it doesn't hold water, imo. Just because you know more about an event than everyone doesn't necessarily mean you're put in charge of an entire organization. In reality, you'd be used as an asset by people who know what to do with that information, who are more experienced than you. There has to be something more to Quizzy than just knowing and surviving, they have to prove themselves in some way, shape or form to be allowed to lead an organization tasked with solving all the crap happening about.

[Heimdall]

Destiny_1989 wrote...

That's one possible explanation but it doesn't hold water, imo. Just because you know more about an event than everyone doesn't necessarily mean you're put in charge of an entire organization. In reality, you'd be used as an asset by people who know what to do with that information, who are more experienced than you. There has to be something more to Quizzy than just knowing and surviving, they have to prove themselves in some way, shape or form to be allowed to lead an organization tasked with solving all the crap happening about.

Perhaps the proving that needs to be done will happen during the event?  What the Inquisitor has to do to survive, I mean.

[ladyofpayne]

[Dirgegun]

Destiny_1989 wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

Ericander77 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

I think coronation was just a name for that scene that someone used offhandedly, it seems strange to refer to someone becoming Inquisitor as a "coronation".

Wonder where that is, by the way - Val Royeux?

Perhaps inauguration is better? Instatement? Investiture?

I kinda wonder what we did so speacial to beat Casandra to the position, I mean, did we beat her in a object stabbing competition? 

The Devs have said that we become the Inquisitor because we were in the area where the veil ripped open and was the only one to survive it, so we know more than others do about the event itself? I think that's it, anyway...

That's one possible explanation but it doesn't hold water, imo. Just because you know more about an event than everyone doesn't necessarily mean you're put in charge of an entire organization. In reality, you'd be used as an asset by people who know what to do with that information, who are more experienced than you. There has to be something more to Quizzy than just knowing and surviving, they have to prove themselves in some way, shape or form to be allowed to lead an organization tasked with solving all the crap happening about.

Oh, I'm definitely not saying that's the only reason or that any speculation other than that is wrong! I was just passing on what little bit of information we have on it yet. I'm definitely interested in hearing more about how our character becomes the Inquisitor beyond 'they saw the thing happen'.

[ElitePinecone]

Destiny_1989 wrote...
Just because you know more about an event than everyone doesn't necessarily mean you're put in charge of an entire organization. In reality, you'd be used as an asset by people who know what to do with that information, who are more experienced than you. There has to be something more to Quizzy than just knowing and surviving, they have to prove themselves in some way, shape or form to be allowed to lead an organization tasked with solving all the crap happening about.

Yeah, I agree.

Especially with something like the Inquisition - which is apparently about building connections and relationships across the world, influencing people, solving problems, journeying to new locations - it does seem strange that control and authority would be handed to someone like the Inquisitor, instead of two characters that are (presumably) vastly more experienced. Even if the protagonist had crucial information or insight into the Veil tears, they'd be used as a source of knowledge or advice while people with actual influence ran the organisation and made its big decisions. 
____

That being said, while I was writing this I thought of something - what if Leliana and Cassandra willingly cede authority to the Inquisitor *because* they recognise that only an impartial and (initially) non-aligned person can go around to all these groups and solve the problems of Thedas in order to confront the Big Bad?

For all we know they might come to the conclusion that an organisation led by a Seeker or former agent of the Divine could be the source of incredible hostility and mistrust (not least from the mages, say) and that a coalition of groups from all over Thedas is needed to fight the new threat? With the Chantry leadership in chaos, an independent organisation that amassed its own (new) power could have influence that a 'partisan' group simply couldn't muster.

It still raises questions of why they trust the Inquisitor with that power, but it could explain why Cassandra and Leliana don't proactively lead the Inquisition - because they believe someone else who isn't necessarily tied to all the baggage might actually do a better job.

With Brother Genetivi's new codex entry in World of Thedas, after all, the writers strongly hinted that the original Inquisition was an independent group that was able to achieve respect (and ire) precisely because it pursued everyone and didn't side with any objective other than stopping chaos. 

[Reznore57]

ElitePinecone wrote...



That being said, while I was writing this I thought of something - what if Leliana and Cassandra willingly cede authority to the Inquisitor *because* they recognise that only an impartial and (initially) non-aligned person can go around to all these groups and solve the problems of Thedas in order to confront the Big Bad?

For all we know they might come to the conclusion that an organisation led by a Seeker or former agent of the Divine could be the source of incredible hostility and mistrust (not least from the mages, say) and that a coalition of groups from all over Thedas is needed to fight the new threat? With the Chantry leadership in chaos, an independent organisation that amassed its own (new) power could have influence that a 'partisan' group simply couldn't muster.

The symbol of the Inquisition looks like the Chantry one , the sun (chantry) the sword (templar) , the eye (seeker).
Plus if the Inquisitor is indeed " introduce to the world" by the right and left hand of the Divine ...
How people from Thedas are supposed to know it's not chantry related?

I think at first the Inquisition will be involved with the Chantry , and then you may choose a different path .

I'm a bit anxious how they're going to explain everything , the different race /rise to power of the inquisitor/relationship with the chantry.

[ElitePinecone]

The symbol of the Inquisition was created by the original organisation - nearly a thousand years before DA:I.

The symbol isn't formed by the combination of the Chantry/Templars/Seekers - it's actually the other way around. Those groups took *their* individual symbols from the original symbol of the Inquisition.

Also, the devs have already said that the Inquisition is not a Chantry organisation. They're going to pretty big lengths to emphasise that this is not the case, to the point that it was one of the first things Mark Darrah said in some of the GameInformer videos.

[azarhal]

ElitePinecone wrote...

I think coronation was just a name for that scene that someone used offhandedly, it seems strange to refer to someone becoming Inquisitor as a "coronation".

Wonder where that is, by the way - Val Royeux?

Perhaps inauguration is better? Instatement? Investiture?

Investiture would be a better term I think. As for where that is, I think it is this castle.

Reznore57 wrote...

The symbol of the Inquisition looks like the Chantry one , the sun (chantry) the sword (templar) , the eye (seeker).
Plus if the Inquisitor is indeed " introduce to the world" by the right and left hand of the Divine ...
How people from Thedas are supposed to know it's not chantry related?

I think at first the Inquisition will be involved with the Chantry , and then you may choose a different path .

I'm
a bit anxious how they're going to explain everything , the different
race /rise to power of the inquisitor/relationship with the chantry.

In the concept art of the Investiture, the Inquisitor is litteraly holding a Chantry flag (sunburst on a red background). You got two of the Divine most loyal followers presenting you to people. Considering Mike and Mark keep saying that the Inquisitor is born out of something the Chantry is involved with, maybe this is what they meant. The Chantry (well Leliana and Cassandra) create the Inquisition, put the PC in charge because of reasons X, Y and Z and off you go trying to conquer the Thedas save the world.

It also seems that the "plucky rebel" might really be in relation to the Templars and not the Divine.  It is also interesting that Cassandra comes along with the Inquisition: Will she be a mentor or a bossy superior that is watching over you....

[Reznore57]

I know that the symbol of the Inquisition is supposed to have been created before the Chantry one.
What I was trying to say ElitePinecone is , if the goal is to have an organisation that doesn't scare people away like the Chantry would , they're doing a pretty bad job.

[The Elder King]

The stranger thing is that in the GI coverage is stated that the Inquisition is formed in opposition of the Chantry's will. And in the interviews the devs are directly talking about not being part of the Chantry. Instead, that concept gives a different feeling.
While I wouldn't care if there's a loose relationship with the Chantry in the formation of the Chantry, a lot of the people will think that Bioware lied to them, since they repetedly stated that there isn't a relationship with the Chantry, other than a starting rivarly.

Modifié par hhh89, 22 août 2013 - 01:23 .

[The Elder King]

Oh, and while in the race video Darrah said that something the Chantry did is relevant for the Inquisition's formation, he states that the latter is created in opposition of the church, which resembles what is stated in the GI coverage.

Modifié par hhh89, 22 août 2013 - 01:28 .

[ElitePinecone]

But, I don't see how *anyone* could reasonably have the interpretation that the Inquisition is at all a Chantry organisation, at this point.

The concept art is quite heavy on Cassandra and Leliana, true, but for every reference like that there have been two more direct statements that the Inquisition is not controlled by the Chantry. It's been repeated, what, six or seven times now?

People on the BSN pre-emptively being scared about links with the Chantry clearly spooked the devs enough that Mark and Mike have repeated "the Inquisition is not a part of the Chantry" every chance they've been given. Mike even called it 'the Church'; Mark said we were in opposition to the Chantry.

That's not normal dev-speak, frankly - you say they're doing a bad job explaining the independence of the Inquisition but that fact is practically *all* I've noticed about their interviews so far. If anything the prominence of the "Inquisition is not part of the Chantry" line is unusual, it sounds like they're deliberately emphasising it.

They've noticed people freaking out about the Inquisition-Chantry connection and are responding to it, over and over. The game isn't going to trick you when they've gone to these lengths to make it clear.

[Grog Muffins]

ElitePinecone wrote...

That being said, while I was writing this I thought of something - what if Leliana and Cassandra willingly cede authority to the Inquisitor *because* they recognise that only an impartial and (initially) non-aligned person can go around to all these groups and solve the problems of Thedas in order to confront the Big Bad?

For all we know they might come to the conclusion that an organisation led by a Seeker or former agent of the Divine could be the source of incredible hostility and mistrust (not least from the mages, say) and that a coalition of groups from all over Thedas is needed to fight the new threat? With the Chantry leadership in chaos, an independent organisation that amassed its own (new) power could have influence that a 'partisan' group simply couldn't muster.

It still raises questions of why they trust the Inquisitor with that power, but it could explain why Cassandra and Leliana don't proactively lead the Inquisition - because they believe someone else who isn't necessarily tied to all the baggage might actually do a better job.

With Brother Genetivi's new codex entry in World of Thedas, after all, the writers strongly hinted that the original Inquisition was an independent group that was able to achieve respect (and ire) precisely because it pursued everyone and didn't side with any objective other than stopping chaos. 

I have to admit, this is quite an interesting idea. Thanks for sharing. It also gives me another idea: maybe the Inquisition is created only to appear impartial and neither Leliana or Cassandra lead it because that would defeat the purpose of basically an intelligence agency. The old Inquisition's reputation, in this case, is an advantage as anyone who remembers it knows they were impartial and if someone who seemingly isn't associated with the Chantry is in charge, people would trust it more easily than if it were run by an agent of the Divine. Maybe that's why Cassandra is a companion as well (like azarhal said), to keep an eye on you and make sure you don't stray. This might be where your own idea of what this new Inquisition should be comes into play and you go your own way and do what you want.

Speculating like this is fun.

[The Elder King]

Oh, by the way, even in the original lore the Inquisition was an indipendant organization, since the Chantry was formed later, and the Nevarran Accord were still mentioned. The difference between the first and the WoT version is that the former has the Inquisition as a completely ruthless mage-hunting group, where in the latter is a more fair organization.

[Fast Jimmy]

hhh89 wrote...

Oh, by the way, even in the original lore the Inquisition was an indipendant organization, since the Chantry was formed later, and the Nevarran Accord were still mentioned. The difference between the first and the WoT version is that the former has the Inquisition as a completely ruthless mage-hunting group, where in the latter is a more fair organization.

The Inquisition was a precursor to the Chantry. In the original lore, the Inquisition fought against mages, abominations and demons. When the Chantry proper was formed, the Inquisition became the Templars and the Seekers. 

So they were the Templars. Now, when we are told that we will be joining the Inquisition, it would make perfect sense for people to express concern that "well, the Inquisition became affiliated with the Chantry and were the first Templars. Is it wrong to worry that you are making us play a pro-Chantry, pro-Templar group?" 

[Reznore57]

I think the chantry vouch for the Inquisition at first .
I'm not saying the chantry controls you , I doubt they can control anything during DA I...
But You can't just walk around with some well known religious symbol claiming "hey Copyright belongs to the Inquisition! And by the way I'm the new Inquisitor!" and people taking you seriously.

EDit :ELitePinecone , I wasn't talking about the devs doing a pretty bad job...I meant if the goal of Cassandra/Leliana is creating a neutral organisation  to knock on mage's door ...
Using well known chantry symbols ( and no I don't buy one second that people could recognize these as Inquisition symbols ...no one remembers the Inquisition , it was like 900 years ago) is bordeline stupid.

Modifié par Reznore57, 22 août 2013 - 02:00 .

[azarhal]

hhh89 wrote...

The stranger thing is that in the GI coverage is stated that the Inquisition is formed in opposition of the Chantry's will. And in the interviews the devs are directly talking about not being part of the Chantry. Instead, that concept gives a different feeling.
While I wouldn't care if there's a loose relationship with the Chantry in the formation of the Chantry, a lot of the people will think that Bioware lied to them, since they repetedly stated that there isn't a relationship with the Chantry, other than a starting rivarly.

I think that the dev use Chantry when talking about the Templars and not than the Divine. The Inquisition can't really have a rivalry going with the Divine when two of her higher most agents are the one doing the Inquisitor investiture. Said Divine also have unorthodox decisions that caused most of the Templars to leave her side.

Having a the rivalry/plucky rebel thing going with the Templars makes a lot more sense though.

Modifié par azarhal, 22 août 2013 - 01:51 .

[The Elder King]

I doubt that they're using the church/Chantry terms to mean the templars. It'd deliberately misleading, and in the coverage, when they talked about the Inquisition forming in opposition of the Chantry's will, they talked about templars too.

[cindercatz]

It seems like, since you've got the Chantry's military wing, the Templars, leaving their authority, the Divine would be looking to found and organize a new military wing. Then perhaps the Divine doesn't agree with Chantry doctrine. Maybe she's heretical like Leliana and thinks the Maker is active in the world again, so there's a philosophical divide in the Chantry. So the Inquisition is brought back as a crisis stopgap that people can get behind because of demons running amok and dragons burning towns left and right and civil wars flaring up, etc.

But if the larger Chantry organisation is really more with the Templars at the time, and the Divine is largely powerless, her support comes, by default, in opposition to the rest of the church, but her agents in the Seeker organisation are carrying out her personal will, rather than official decree, in reinstituting an onstensibly neutral organisation, the Inquisition. The catch would be that, because the Divine herself no longer has the authority to lead, the Inquisition would have to be left to its own devices, with Seekers as advisory ambassadors. From that point, it's up to the player where they want to lead their organisation and if they follow along with the Divine's intentions or not, because the leader of the Inquisition would be the one with the army and the authority.

Why is your character suitable to lead the Inquisition? Who knows, could be any number of things. I imagine they're already seen as fairly accomplished. They've probably led troops before for somebody, been a Seeker themselves, have wealthy connections, maybe somebody with noriety among the peasantry, something different for (hopefully) each background you select when you choose your race. I wouldn't expect them to justify installment from just raw talent like the Warden. It would most likely be somebody who's made a name for themselves but isn't known to hold any particularly strong allegiances by most people. So the PC would already be a vaguely important person. That would be a natural choice, I think.

edit: Or maybe the Divine will die during the conference, and the Seekers are left to pick up the pieces without a leader, and reinstituting the Inquisition gives them a chance to do that. A lot of things could happen.

Modifié par cindercatz, 22 août 2013 - 02:38 .

[ElitePinecone]

cindercatz wrote...

But if the larger Chantry organisation is really more with the Templars at the time, and the Divine is largely powerless, her support comes, by default, in opposition to the rest of the church, but her agents in the Seeker organisation are carrying out her personal will, rather than official decree, in reinstituting an onstensibly neutral organisation, the Inquisition. The catch would be that, because the Divine herself no longer has the authority to lead, the Inquisition would have to be left to its own devices, with Seekers as advisory ambassadors. From that point, it's up to the player where they want to lead their organisation and if they follow along with the Divine's intentions or not, because the leader of the Inquisition would be the one with the army and the authority.

Yeah, I think this is a very good theory. 

Certainly the Chantry is internally divided (to say the least) after Asunder, and various sources have stated that some Templars struck out on their own to hunt mages without the permission of the Chantry.

I think your last point about the Divine actually dying is interesting; the survey mentioned that the attack on the peace conference 'decimates the Chantry's leadership', which is ambiguous enough to mean a lot of things.

But it does suggest that by the start of Inquisition, the Chantry simply doesn't have the capacity or the leadership to adequately respond to the Veil tear. Between skirmishes with Lambert's Seeker faction, renegade Templars and probably rogue mages, plus a civil war in Orlais, they'd have their hands full even without dragons pouring out of the sky and demons everywhere.

I don't think a leaderless and divided Chantry could control the Inquisition, even if it wanted to do so. Doubly so if the Divine herself is actually killed or incapacitated. 

hhh89 wrote...

I doubt that they're using the church/Chantry terms to mean the templars. It'd deliberately misleading, and in the coverage, when they talked about the Inquisition forming in opposition of the Chantry's will, they talked about templars too.

This was from nearly a year ago:

Mark Darrah ‏@BioMarkDarrah
.@[user] #DA3 will not force you to be proTemplar. Inquisition and the Templars are not the same. Though they are related. #inAWay
_____
The Inquisition is independent.

[ElitePinecone]

Destiny_1989 wrote...
Maybe that's why Cassandra is a companion as well (like azarhal said), to keep an eye on you and make sure you don't stray. This might be where your own idea of what this new Inquisition should be comes into play and you go your own way and do what you want.

Speculating like this is fun.

I really like the idea that a companion who joins right at the start of the game can eventually grow so alienated and disillusioned that they kinda work to undermine their own organisation from within. If Cassandra is a founding member of the Inquisition, I'd love to see how she reacts if the player were to actively move against the Chantry (or the Seekers) at every opportunity. 

[Ilidan_DA]

Seek the light, for the wicked take root in the darkest corners.

[Reznore57]

Again with the LIGHT!
Corypheus has to be in DA:I !
Anyway I think this may be my favorite concept art , the lightning , the trees ...if this end up in game /swoon.
Thanks Wiedzmin!

[Ilidan_DA]

At your service

Modifié par Wiedzmin182009, 22 août 2013 - 05:20 .

[brewers299]

All I see in the art is dual swords!