279 réponses à ce sujet

[alikilar]

frostbite2 to comparing to unreal engine 3 both are the best out there currently but frostbite 2 i think has better textures but Unreal engine 3 has better facial textures so i think the visuals will end up alot like mass effect 3 where the facial textures are Ok. but the textures on ships tanks building etc. looks friggen great

Modifié par alikilar, 18 septembre 2012 - 05:19 .

[satunnainen]

bobobo878 wrote...

I find this news worrying. An anonymous medical researcher has told me of an ongoing study suggesting that when a computer develops a game using a high quality engine, the computer slowly degrades, releasing toxins into the air that kill neuron's in the brain's rightside hemisphere. This reduces the victim's capacity for creative thought, and is especially devastating to writers. If the game is written in the same building that the artwork is developed, the game will turn into a brainless shoot-em-up.

Thank you. Finally I understand what Skyrim is. Just think about it: not much plot, shooting big things with arrows and spells.

[hoorayforicecream]

Atakuma wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The work that needs to be put into retooling the engine to suit BioWare's purposes as well as work needed to re-create existing content ... takes away directly from resources available for production of new content and/or new abilities for existing engine.

Content doesn't need to be recreated. DA2's assets can be imported over into Frostbite.

I believe he's referring to actual gameplay content and not just assets.

When it comes to gameplay content, there's really only a few different things.

- Script, written by designers to handle basic logic
- Code, written by programmers to support the script and make sure everything is running correctly
- Art assets (model, texture, animation data, etc.) that displays what we see
- Sound assets (VO, music, etc.)

Of these four, the assets can be directly imported (art and sound). Code needs to be ported or rewritten, and scripts need to be ported or rewritten. However, the heavy lifting is in the creation of the art and sound assets. Fixing scripts and/or code is actually a lot faster than creating the assets, since there aren't any dependencies, and you can fix the code once and it is fixed in many instances. This can be difficult or easy, depending on how the engine itself lends itself to doing the things they want.

Since none of us know for certain, I'd suggest we leave it to the programmers whose job it is to actually do the coding, and not speculate needlessly. It's probably too late to change back, so full speed ahead.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

You can take the Master Chief character model from Halo 3 and import it into Unreal Engine 3, for example.

[Lieber]

I won't read everything, I'll check the rest later, but in response to people asking if I am joking and that the Frostbite 2 engine is great, it is! However, the engine isn't fully optimized and can be quite resource consuming. I am afraid console players are going to get a downgraded game. That's all.

[slimgrin]

Lieber wrote...

I won't read everything, I'll check the rest later, but in response to people asking if I am joking and that the Frostbite 2 engine is great, it is! However, the engine isn't fully optimized and can be quite resource consuming. I am afraid console players are going to get a downgraded game. That's all.

It can only be an upgrade from the current engine. And they said they're making modifications with DICE from the ground up. Imo this is the strongest asset the game has going for it.

Modifié par slimgrin, 18 septembre 2012 - 12:50 .

[Brockololly]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

That an engine has only been used for more realistic portrayals has no actual bearing on the assets that can be used in game, aside from the upper bound that if you want to make very realistic models you can.

Oh, I know, but considering the only games that have used Frostbite 2 have all been using it towards that upper bound of realism, I'm curious if that is the direction DA3 ends up going or just how DA3 will end up looking. You mention Frostbite 2 to people and they're automatically thinking realism and all the details you see in something like Battlefield 3. We just haven't seen anything from Frostbite 2 besides that aesthetic so I'm just curious how something besides that will end up looking.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The work that needs to be put into retooling the engine to suit BioWare's purposes as well as work needed to re-create existing content ... takes away directly from resources available for production of new content and/or new abilities for existing engine.

Content doesn't need to be recreated. DA2's assets can be imported over into Frostbite.

 

That is kind of what I'm wondering about though. One of the reasons given for overhauling the face morph system from Dragon Age Origins to Dragon Age 2 and one of the reasons that faces from Origins couldn't simply be imported over was that they needed to be remade to accomodate  a greater number of polygons or something to that effect.  

I'm just thinking back to this response about Origins' character faces being transferred to DA2 from back before DA2 came out:

SonFrancisco wrote...
Fortunately we have our methods of approximating one to the other and getting it close, should we need to. That's what i was referring to, in part, about not being 100% identical but still sharing the structural and cosmetic similarities and being recognizable. However, putting all the points about why they might look different aside, when dealing with two models of varying poly counts and vertex numbers its a little more challenging to make one look like the other at a microscopic level. The topology and flow of the DA:O mesh is not as optimized for animation as the DA2 ones and therefore may not accurately wrap cleanly along the same lines, curves and shapes of eachother, particularly when speaking. There will always be subtle differences. 

As far as Alistair and Nathaniel Howe or Morrigan and other key npcs are concerned, should they ever re-appear in Dragon Age with the new head system, you might double-take, but my hope is you'll be pleasantly relieved (maybe even a little excited!). 

 

So with Frostbite 2 is it possible to simply import over the faces from DA2 or DA:O without  changes, if thats what you wanted to do? Do the faces from Origins or DA2 need to be overhauled again to accomodate Frostbite's system of animations or are you guys basically just making Frostbite work within the confines of what you've already established from Origins and DA2?


I'm just very curious to see how DA3 looks in motion in Frostbite 2 

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

I don't know how engines work, but my instincts tell me anything having to do with BioWare must be bad news.

Good of you to be so forward about it for once.

 

Wow, what a constructive and insightful comment. Great contribution to the conversation.

Modifié par Brockololly, 18 septembre 2012 - 02:10 .

[Fraevar]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I'm going to be very curious how characters and the art style translates into Frostbite 2. Things like the DA2 elves and some of the more stylized designs just don't seem like they'd work if they're adopting the realism that's been the trademark of Frostbite 2.

That an engine has only been used for more realistic portrayals has no actual bearing on the assets that can be used in game, aside from the upper bound that if you want to make very realistic models you can.

Allan, I don't know if you can answer this but I'm going to dare to ask anyway: One of the more hefty technical critisisms levelled at Mass Effect 2 and 3 was that the art assets were not proper high-resolution on the PC, resulting in very blurry texturing in many cases.

I have no interest in turning this into a platform war, but with the inherent power of Frostbite 2, would it be a reasonable assumption that you would be working with very high-resolution assets as a base and then only compressing for the platforms where memory was a concern? When you're sitting with 8GB RAM or more, it does take a bit away from the presentation to see low-res 256x256 720p textures on clothes and environments.

[twincast]

Brockololly wrote...

I'm going to be very curious how characters and the art style translates into Frostbite 2. Things like the DA2 elves and some of the more stylized designs just don't seem like they'd work if they're adopting the realism that's been the trademark of Frostbite 2. So I'm just picturing things ending up in some bizarre middle ground, kind of like real life Mario:


I'm just having a hard time reconciling how they're going to make some of the more stylized designs from DA2 work in Frostbite 2, unless they're going to go for a more stylized look overall somehow. But that's not the impression I got from the press release and FB2 is known for realism and detail.

Ugh, thanks for the nightmares, buddy.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Oh, my god! That is so creepy!

[upsettingshorts]

[quote]Upsettingshorts wrote...
[quote]Brockololly wrote...

I don't know how engines work, but my instincts tell me anything having to do with BioWare must be bad news.[/quote]

Good of you to be so forward about it for once.[/quote] 

Wow, what a constructive and insightful comment. Great contribution to the conversation.[/quote]

Sarcasm is potentially more constructive and insightful than grasping at straws to criticize something you clearly do not understand.

Yet, said sarcasm is only useful when the intended recipient has the slightest chance of considering the possibility that they have erred.  Your response indicates that this is unlikely, so I guess I'll have to try a different approach next time.

[quote]Delerius_Jedi wrote...

Allan, I don't know if you can answer this but I'm going to dare to ask anyway: One of the more hefty technical critisisms levelled at Mass Effect 2 and 3 was that the art assets were not proper high-resolution on the PC, resulting in very blurry texturing in many cases. 

I have no interest in turning this into a platform war, but with the inherent power of Frostbite 2, would it be a reasonable assumption that you would be working with very high-resolution assets as a base and then only compressing for the platforms where memory was a concern? When you're sitting with 8GB RAM or more, it does take a bit away from the presentation to see low-res 256x256 720p textures on clothes and environments. [/quote]

I'm curious as to whether or not the PC/console versions of existing Frostbite games have had noticably similar issues, or whether or not this is in fact an engine issue at all.

In any case, I'd like to hear an answer too. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 septembre 2012 - 02:10 .

[Brockololly]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Sarcasm is potentially more constructive and insightful than grasping at straws to criticize something you clearly do not understand.

Yet, said sarcasm is only useful when the intended recipient has the slightest chance of considering the possibility that they have erred.  Your response indicates that this is unlikely, so I guess I'll have to try a different approach next time.

I'm not criticizing anything beyond expressing curiosity/skepticism as to how the art style BioWare adopted in DA2 will translate into BioWare's modified Frostbite 2, if DA3 ends up using a more realistic visual aesthetic which Frostbite 2 is known for at this point.  They can certainly change things however they want with the engine but as of now, you mention Frostbite 2 to somebody and they're thinking along the lines of BF3's realistic visuals. 

[slimgrin]

Brockololly wrote...

  They can certainly change things however they want with the engine but as of now, you mention Frostbite 2 to somebody and they're thinking along the lines of BF3's realistic visuals. 

Thats why I'm curious to see it render a fantasy medevial setting, or if it can. Although the art direction could negate any possible graphical advantages the engine offers.

[Brockololly]

slimgrin wrote...
Thats why I'm curious to see it render a fantasy medevial setting, or if it can. Although the art direction could negate any possible graphical advantages the engine offers.

Right- Frostbite 2 has thus far been Battlefield 3, Need For Speed: The Run, the forthcoming Medal of Honor:Warfighter, the forthcoming Army of Two: Devil's Cartel and the free to play Command and Conquer game. So the engine can likely do different settings and things based on what the devs need it to do, we just haven't seen any games do it yet. DA3 will presumably be the first Frostbite 2 game that doesn't  have a similar modern day realistic type look. 

The technical shortcomings of past DA games should hopefully be remedied, but with that, the art style will be able to come into sharper focus, for better or worse.

[Cylan Cooper]

I'm happy to hear this news due to witnessing the power of the Frostbite 2 engine for several hundred hours through battlefield 3. As Brockololly said, I'm curious as to how it will translate to a fantasy setting, considering elves and dwarves are, by their very nature, unrealistic. I also hope that the characters will look like themselves when the inevitable cameos are made, and I wish that Mister Schumacher could comment on how any old characters he has seen look in the engine.

[ME_Fan]

OP are you kidding? It's about time they used a new engine for this franchise, and luckily, Frostbite 2 is a relatively decent looking engine at the moment. Dragon Age II just looked backwards and aged on a visual level compared to TW2 and Skyrim. As for Cryengine 3, well , that would have been nice, but Frostbite 2 is a good game engine that will more than suffice, (and I'm a huge Crytek fan).

[Atakuma]

It doesn't have to look anything like BF3. Any post process effects can be edited to suit their needs.

[Fraevar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I'm curious as to whether or not the PC/console versions of existing Frostbite games have had noticably similar issues, or whether or not this is in fact an engine issue at all.

In any case, I'd like to hear an answer too. 

Digital Foundry did a rather extensive comparison of Battlefield 3 across the three platforms when it came out Click Here
Essentially, they did have to cut back a fair amount of detail to accomodate the lower storage and memory configurations, but they tried to add in more post-processing effects to hide them. Good read, and I hope BioWare does adopt this approach for DA3 instead of just using the lowest common denominator, because on PC that does detract from the enjoyment of the product (most NPC hands in DA2 and ME3, for reference).

[CronoDragoon]

Considering BF3's use of Frostbite 2.....are destructible environments possibly in play?

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:31 .

[tmp7704]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Content doesn't need to be recreated. DA2's assets can be imported over into Frostbite.

However, will they be simply imported? DA2 sharing the engine with DA1 to large extent (and as such much easier to keep backward-compatible if desired) didn't stop you guys from redoing bulk of the stuff, as result of improving animation rigs, 'streamlining' character face morphs etc. From just a quick look at GDC slides Frostbite uses quite different approach to these areas (as well as many others) and so it'd be perfectly natural to want to create content tailored to these systems --and so able to take advantage of abilities they offer-- rather than try to convert square pegs to fit round holes?

Modifié par tmp7704, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:34 .

[Atakuma]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Considering BF3's use of Frostbite 2.....are destructible environments possibly in play?

If it is, it would probably be restricted to cutscenes.

[John Epler]

BF3 being more realism-focused does not necessarily mean that DA3 (or any other games that use the engine, for that matter) have to also look more realistic. Really, the only thing you're going to see as a 'BF3 feature' in terms of visual style is that the lighting engine is significantly better than what we had previously and allow for more nuanced lighting, like in BF3.

Visual style will be derived far more heavily from texture and model choices rather than the engine being used. As much as I've argued for it, you will likely never fight a dragon from the cockpit of an F-35.

[Lenimph]

John Epler wrote...
As much as I've argued for it, you will likely never fight a dragon from the cockpit of an F-35.

Aww man  My heart is broken

[EricHVela]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Content doesn't need to be recreated. DA2's assets can be imported over into Frostbite.

This makes me sad.

I was not impressed with the assets from the second Dragon Age. I wish for more detail and accuracy, and that game seemed a bit cartoon-like.

Still as I keep telling myself and others, DA3:I will be everything we love and hate and everything in-between and outside until we actually see it.

As for Frostbite 2, it can do some beautiful stuff (at least on PC -- haven't checked 360 or PS3 versions). Game engines used for FPS have been used for RPGs in the past with great results (and some poor ones, but I don't think that's the fault of the engine).

It's what you do with the technology that matters.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:40 .