Aller au contenu

Photo

Morrigans home! (Yay!)


176 réponses à ce sujet

#151
Allan Schumacher

Allan Schumacher
  • BioWare Employees
  • 7 640 messages

Oh and I get the joke in there about vagueness and deus ex.


Oh? I didn't mean for there to be one. What was it? LOL.

The original Deus Ex is one of my all time favourite games. By not showing you the explicit aftermath of your choices, it puts more focus on the choices themselves and your/Denton's motivation for choosing them, instead of on the consequences of said choices. Someone could have all the noble intentions in the world of making a particular choice, but if the game dev goes "This bad thing happens" it can backfire.

Sometimes it works though (siding with the Kuei-Jin in Bloodlines).

#152
Sharn01

Sharn01
  • Members
  • 1 881 messages
At least limit what she can say if you do include her, you already destroyed one of my warden's ending with Leliana, dont destroy the other warden's ending as well.

#153
rolson00

rolson00
  • Members
  • 1 500 messages

Sharn01 wrote...

At least limit what she can say if you do include her, you already destroyed one of my warden's ending with Leliana, dont destroy the other warden's ending as well.

yes this is why i don't think morrigan should be in da3 my male cousland went with morrigan hes the only one who got a happy endingImage IPB

#154
Fast Jimmy

Fast Jimmy
  • Members
  • 17 939 messages

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Oh and I get the joke in there about vagueness and deus ex.


Oh? I didn't mean for there to be one. What was it? LOL.

The original Deus Ex is one of my all time favourite games. By not showing you the explicit aftermath of your choices, it puts more focus on the choices themselves and your/Denton's motivation for choosing them, instead of on the consequences of said choices. Someone could have all the noble intentions in the world of making a particular choice, but if the game dev goes "This bad thing happens" it can backfire.

Sometimes it works though (siding with the Kuei-Jin in Bloodlines).


See,  I I feel a game should do the exact opposite - tell us the consequences of our choices, so I can feel like I had an impact on the world. This lets actions done during the game, both big and small, grow into a true feel of affecting the world.

What I did not like about DE1 or ME3 was that it gave huge choices at the very end, choices which were not in the least bit affected by anything done prior. If you hadn't played ME3 or DE up until the last thirty minutes, the endings would not be widely different (even with ME3's EC, which gave only the most superificial acknowledgements of what the character DID - something we already knew - and not what these actions resulted in) aside from the choice made in the game. 

If there was a way for the game to make random decisions about prior choices and then only let a player touch on the last half hour of your game and that player could see almost no differences in the endings apart from the choice(s) they made in the last thirty minutes, then there is something VERY wrong there. This complaint can be easily applied to DE:HR as well.

I get the first-person, role-playing worth of not telling the endings for an ending like Synthesis or Destroy (where Shpeherd presumably wouldn't be around, let's say) but Control should, at the least, give you very detailed descriptions of how things played out. Its very unsatisfying to see it in a game like DE or DE:HR, but emotionally damaging to invest the amount of time in the ME series, to put the deep thought into so many choices, and to have all of those choices reduced to a number that scantly affects the ending (a number which is just as easily boosted by multiplayer Slayer matches), but rather the ending is dominated by a choice made at the end of the game, completely removed from everything else.

DA:O gave you the ending choices of whether to do the DR, or to sacrifice yourself or the other Warden (Loghain or Allistair). But the ending still went on to explain how the action you performed, both in major and minor quests, changed the world for good or bad. 

If a developer is worried about players picking one choice over another for meta-gaming, then make each choice with a mixed bag of good things. You freed the werewolves from a centuries long curse, great... but the elves are infuriated about it and take their rage out on nearby settlements. Or you spared the lives of the mages, not invoking the Right of Annulment after the Tower... but over time, more and more students do not pass their Harrowing and it is suspected it is because of a missed prescence hidden deep within the Tower. You saved the Urn of Sacred Ashes and told the world about it, bringng many to be healed by its powers... but now warring neighbors fight over the town of Haven for control of the area, leading to countless deaths.

No choice ever results in all good or all bad, so endings that reflect that are okay. But to make a decision made in the final seconds, one that is not colored by past actions in the least nor is in line with many of the views our character has espouted the entire series, is not a good ending, in my opinion.

Didn't mean to go into a tirade, but just wanted to throw my two cents in and put my vote on the record for more description in endings of results, not just "the world is completely changed by this last minute decision I made, because I am the Chosen One..." That's silly. Again, in my opinion.

#155
Allan Schumacher

Allan Schumacher
  • BioWare Employees
  • 7 640 messages

See, I I feel a game should do the exact opposite - tell us the consequences of our choices, so I can feel like I had an impact on the world. This lets actions done during the game, both big and small, grow into a true feel of affecting the world.


It just depends on what the game is trying to do. The focus shifts depending on how you play out the endings.

It reminds me a bit about Ravel and her question: "What can change the nature of a man?" You get a ton of answers to provide, but she isn't asking you as a test. She wants to know TNO's answer, simply because it's TNO's answer.


If you're going to show the consequences of one's actions in a game, I think it's better served if you're showing the consequences of the actions made throughout the game, not just (or even at all) the end.

Players have certainly stated that they like their actions to have consequences, though I find mostly as long as those consequences play out the way they expect/want. And more often than not they want them to "play out the way they want it to" (whatever that means. It's unique to every person, even if perspectives are shared). If the consequences of a choice mostly plays out in a way the player would like it to, they tend to be happy. If the consequence of said choice doesn't play out the way they want, even if it's logically consistent, it ends up becoming "what's the point?!" You see it in this very thread.

#156
Jerrybnsn

Jerrybnsn
  • Members
  • 2 291 messages

Dave of Canada wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

And if she ends up looking like DA 2 Alistair and Zevran, someone's gonna get hit.


Highly unlikely because of the new engine. Might make it worse somehow (though I doubt it).


I hear the new engine takes off about ten pounds.

#157
unbentbuzzkill

unbentbuzzkill
  • Members
  • 654 messages
has morrigan actually been officially said to be in Da3 or is this just ideal speculation

#158
Scarlet Rabbi

Scarlet Rabbi
  • Members
  • 436 messages

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Players have certainly stated that they like their actions to have consequences, though I find mostly as long as those consequences play out the way they expect/want. And more often than not they want them to "play out the way they want it to" (whatever that means. It's unique to every person, even if perspectives are shared). If the consequences of a choice mostly plays out in a way the player would like it to, they tend to be happy. If the consequence of said choice doesn't play out the way they want, even if it's logically consistent, it ends up becoming "what's the point?!" You see it in this very thread.


Heh, you're the man, Allan. You have the gift of killing softly.

I love the way you can dismember and destroy 'arguments' and merit-less complaints without being crass or even vaugely confrontational. Good stuff.

#159
Warrior Craess

Warrior Craess
  • Members
  • 723 messages

Travie wrote...

Is there nothing claudia black can't make sexy?


Such a thing does not exist. 

#160
Nashimura

Nashimura
  • Members
  • 803 messages

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

has morrigan actually been officially said to be in Da3 or is this just ideal speculation


The only source was wikipedia....so its very much just speculation at this point. 

#161
davepissedatending

davepissedatending
  • Members
  • 420 messages
Morrigan was the best party member in Dao I hope she bad maybe with a ten yr old son/daughter ????

#162
Yrkoon

Yrkoon
  • Members
  • 4 764 messages
Ok, am I blind, or  do I simply  have no clue what you guys are talking about, or what?

There's not a single mention of  Claudia Black's  DA3  work in the OP's wiki link at all.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 01 octobre 2012 - 12:58 .


#163
Yrkoon

Yrkoon
  • Members
  • 4 764 messages

Upsettingshorts wrote...

People arguing for the option to kill characters because they personally dislike them and want them removed from their game: Irritating and childish.

Depends on the character.  Cool characters?  I agree.  Irritating and childish.

But  Irredeemable, annoying characters who deserve a good finishing move cutscene devoted to their messy decapitations?    (Ie.  Alistair, Cullen, et. al.)?  Nothing wrong with that.

:::runs off:::

Modifié par Yrkoon, 01 octobre 2012 - 12:58 .


#164
Emzamination

Emzamination
  • Members
  • 3 782 messages

Yrkoon wrote...

Ok, am I blind, or  do I simply  have no clue what you guys are talking about, or what?

There's not a single mention of  Claudia Black's  DA3  work in the OP's wiki link at all.


You're two weeks late to the thread, Yrkoon.Someone took that specific piece of info out awhile ago.

#165
Ghost

Ghost
  • Members
  • 3 512 messages
Morrigan!

#166
laudable11

laudable11
  • Members
  • 1 171 messages
If Morrigan returns she should be CRAZY powerful!

#167
Blessed Silence

Blessed Silence
  • Members
  • 1 381 messages

Chris Priestly wrote...

I'm not saying whether Morrigan will or will not be back, but I would wait for better confirmation from a source than just Wikipedia.

Never trust an encyclopedia that allows morons like me to write our own "facts".



:devil:


You're not a moron, Mister Priestly.

But I do agree, I would really take alot what you see on wikipedia and the like with a grain of salt unless one of the devs or a press release comes out.  I'm interested in DA3 as well, but not good to spread false stuff Image IPB

#168
marshalleck

marshalleck
  • Members
  • 15 645 messages
It's true. If it weren't, Bioware could very easily just come out and say "Claudia Black isn't voicing a character in DA3."

It's kind of like the situation with ME3 MP before it was confirmed. There were all these hints that it was going to be there, but Bioware kept not commenting when they could have easily killed the rumors with an unambiguous "no."

#169
TCBC_Freak

TCBC_Freak
  • Members
  • 743 messages

Blackrising wrote...

I'm conflicted. So very conflicted.
I love Morrigan, I truly do. She's by far my favourite character in Origins.
I just don't know if I want to meet her again. There's so much that could go wrong. And if she does play a larger role, I'm going to have a hard time deciding which save game to import.
My first male Warden playthrough was with a mage that romanced Morrigan, but my in my canon playthrough, Cousland married Anora (quite happily I might add). How the HELL am I supposed to decide something like this?!

And if she ends up looking like DA 2 Alistair and Zevran, someone's gonna get hit.


I’m with you about this. Honestly my main Warden went with his love and his child. I imagine them living something of a family life (maybe even having another kid), trying to raise their son well so he can use his power for good. I want to see her, but at the same time, I don’t want my dream of their life after to be dashed. I honestly feel that adding her in a big way is just as daunting as adding the Warden. If they get it wrong it could be game breaking. For example, if they made her a party member and also a love interest then I would literally be heart broken. My Warden loved her and she loved him, so unless my Warden died and it has been long enough I‘d be mad, not at her (because, honestly, how can you stay mad at that voice… :wub:), but at Bioware.

#170
LanceSolous13

LanceSolous13
  • Members
  • 3 003 messages

BadExamp1e wrote...

Morrigan better be back... I wonder if she's preggers though.


Considering she and her Dark Ritual occured about 8-10 years before DAIII, that would be extremely awkward. Also, Her scene in Witch Hunt, which was... I think 6 years after DA:O's end, She was obviously not pregnant.

#171
xsamplexample

xsamplexample
  • Members
  • 297 messages

Allan Schumacher wrote...

See, I I feel a game should do the exact opposite - tell us the consequences of our choices, so I can feel like I had an impact on the world. This lets actions done during the game, both big and small, grow into a true feel of affecting the world.


It just depends on what the game is trying to do. The focus shifts depending on how you play out the endings.

It reminds me a bit about Ravel and her question: "What can change the nature of a man?" You get a ton of answers to provide, but she isn't asking you as a test. She wants to know TNO's answer, simply because it's TNO's answer.


If you're going to show the consequences of one's actions in a game, I think it's better served if you're showing the consequences of the actions made throughout the game, not just (or even at all) the end.

Players have certainly stated that they like their actions to have consequences, though I find mostly as long as those consequences play out the way they expect/want. And more often than not they want them to "play out the way they want it to" (whatever that means. It's unique to every person, even if perspectives are shared). If the consequences of a choice mostly plays out in a way the player would like it to, they tend to be happy. If the consequence of said choice doesn't play out the way they want, even if it's logically consistent, it ends up becoming "what's the point?!" You see it in this very thread.


No, if the 'morrigan soul transfer' choice at the end of DA:O ends up being pushed to the side, then thats BS.  Yeah, sure, I personally believe that an Old God inside of a mortal body would be dangerous.  i persoanlly believe thats a major plot point.  dont side-line it, dont force it.  

im more concerned about the effects of the orzamarr and dalish/warewolf choices.....

#172
Vicious

Vicious
  • Members
  • 3 221 messages

No, if the 'morrigan soul transfer' choice at the end of DA:O ends up being pushed to the side, then thats BS.


It already was, back in Witch Hunt. "A means to an end, but not required" was the gist of what Morrigan tells the Warden, if they DIDN'T perform the ritual.

It seems a lot of people didn't pay attention.

Modifié par Vicious, 15 octobre 2012 - 04:14 .


#173
LanceSolous13

LanceSolous13
  • Members
  • 3 003 messages

Vicious wrote...


No, if the 'morrigan soul transfer' choice at the end of DA:O ends up being pushed to the side, then thats BS.


It already was, back in Witch Hunt. "A means to an end, but not required" was the gist of what Morrigan tells the Warden, if they DIDN'T perform the ritual.

It seems a lot of people didn't pay attention.


It could of couse mean that not having the Old God Baby is going to put us all at a significant disadvantage and the way around that will take a lot of work.

#174
saintjimmy43

saintjimmy43
  • Members
  • 303 messages
Lol, if you're going to ask the question "what's the point?" about choices whose results were nonexistent or distasteful, you might as well ask what's the point of playing video games?
Because we like doing things.We like to play. If you hate the game so much, play a different one.

#175
Rikku Moon

Rikku Moon
  • Members
  • 11 messages

BadExamp1e wrote...

Morrigan better be back... I wonder if she's preggers thoughf.

whether morrigan is pregnant or not should depend on whether or not the staff at bioware program da3. like will it allow to download previous saved games into da3 like the last 3 incarnation of dragon age did, and maybe only the saved game file you you had the male warden, loghain or alistair knocked her up before the fight with the archdemon. but then again whether shes still pregnant in da3 would also depend on exactly how many years have gone by in the da universe. if da3 follows da2s titmeline remember da2 ends after 10 years have gone past. so the chances of Morrigan still pregnant let alone the baby still being a baby even if its mentioned by morrigan in the game.