85 réponses à ce sujet

[Applepie_Svk]

IF I want slash and dash game than I get back to my old PSone and replay some old Crash Bandicoot or Spyro or whatever game...

[Ramus Quaritch]

Forst1999 wrote...

You do know that DA:O's combat was supposed to be awesome too, yes? The difference was just that in DAII the "awesome" happened directly after you pushed the button, while in DA:O it took several moments, while your character sloooowly turned and stamped to the enemy. That's all the infamous "awesome button" quote is about.

That's more realistic given you're wearing armor and weilding weapons that can be pretty heavy.  Combat with swords is slower than the movie make it out ot be.  

[Beerfish]

They are replacing 'awesome' this time around with 'awesome sauce'.

[DaBigDragon]

I enjoyed the combat improvements in DA2 a whole lot more than the slow combat in the first game.

Modifié par DaBigDragon, 17 septembre 2012 - 08:18 .

[earlmobile]

Personally i thought that awesome combat was awesome. However after the DA2 trailer it was weird that the mage could not equip swords (i know it was staff of parlathan and not a sword but still). For more awesomeness bring back the arcane warrior.

[Izana]

I prefer a bit of both. I'd like DA3 to be more action filled than DA:O, but not as flashy as DA2.

[Odd Bet]

I definitely prefer the combat of DA2 to DA:O. I don't get all the derisive comments, claiming that DA2 was somehow just about mashing buttons. I primarily play as a mage, and I found that mages in DA2 were far more tactical and interesting than DA:O.

I could definitely use far less of the waves of enemies, though. It works in some instances, but when every single fight involves enemies popping out of every nook and cranny over the course of five minutes, it gets tedious.

[CronoDragoon]

It could use a lot less blood (but more Origins style finishers) but I never want to play an Origins' like combat on console again.

[xxBabyMonkeyxx]

The combat in DAO was boring compared to the combat in DA2. I rather be in the action and seeing awesome rather than pressing the "A" button once and having it auto-attack. No return of the MMO combat style please.

[Korusus]

How do you reconcile the desire for truly tactical party-based combat
with the desire for flashy animations and button->action gameplay? 
I don't know, but I don't
envy BioWare the task.  Someone will be disappointed.  Probably going
to be the people wanting truly tactical party-based combat if history is
any judge.

Odd Bet wrote...

I definitely prefer
the combat of DA2 to DA:O. I don't get all the derisive comments,
claiming that DA2 was somehow just about mashing buttons. I primarily
play as a mage, and I found that mages in DA2 were far more tactical and
interesting than DA:O.

Tactics is about how your party performs as a team, not what its like to play a single character class. 

xxBabyMonkeyxx wrote...

The combat in DAO was boring compared to the combat in DA2. I rather be in the action and seeing awesome rather than pressing the "A" button once and having it auto-attack. No return of the MMO combat style please.

The point of auto-attack is so you aren't limited to button mashing for a single-character.  You call it MMO style combat (even though its far older than the oldest MMO).  I call it freeing me from playing a single character so I can tactically control the whole party.  Everything else is meaningless animations and flashy eye candy.

[Ashbery]

You either do real tactical combat like DA1 or go full button smash like Skrim .DA2 combat was mixed horrible mess.

[Putok]

I really think they can achieve a good mix. More tactical and challenging than DA2, but a bit more fast paced than DAO. Characters felt a bit unwieldy and slow at times in DAO, but combat was genuinely challenging on higher difficulties. Things like spell combos and spell friendly fire was awesome.

I don't want to see my rogue mysteriously teleporting, but a bit more agility than DAO would be welcome. A bit more speed from warriors too. Physics being integrated into combat would also be nice.

Basically, I'd like to see:
-The level of tactical challenge presented by DAO
-The responsive feeling of DA2
-Physics
-No more waves
-Anime-esque flashiness contained to finishing moves. It looks great there, but a little cheesy if that's all combat is
-No more teleportation or leaping 30'+ through the air without some sort of explanation. Action is fun, but not when realism is entirely discarded. Our protagonist may be a badass, but they don't have to be Goku.

[Putok]

Korusus wrote...

How do you reconcile the desire for truly tactical party-based combat
with the desire for flashy animations and button->action gameplay? 
I don't know, but I don't
envy BioWare the task.  Someone will be disappointed.  Probably going
to be the people wanting truly tactical party-based combat if history is
any judge.

Difficulty levels might be a good solution to this. Gameplay can be more tactical at high difficulty levels (ie: have friendly fire and such start to come into play after "normal"), and more action at lower difficulty levels. That might be the best way to do it. 

If people want challenging combat, they can turn up the difficulty level. If people want super-fast action, they can keep it on normal.

[panamakira]

I don't want them to go back to DA:O's shuffling combat style either. I love DA:O but some of the action could be a pain in the ass. Sure DA2 needs improvement in their combat so that not everybody is an attacking flying ninja but going back is not the way to solve the issue.

[Rawgrim]

I hope DA2 was the last time they tried to make a jrpg with western graphics.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

www.youtube.com/watch

It's not just the 'awesome' button that wasn't so awesome.

[slimgrin]

Wulfram wrote...

DA3's combat will be "bodacious"

(DA2's combat would have been good with better encounter and enemy design)

You press a button, something bodacious happens. I like it.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

"When you press a button, something unexpected happens!" - Dragon Age III.

Imagine if the attacks were all randomized.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 17 septembre 2012 - 09:18 .

[eroeru]

"Button-bodacious, button-bodacious" doesn't have that ring to it.

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

"When you press a button, something unexpected happens!" - Dragon Age III.

Imagine if the attacks were all randomized. 

That would be... better.

Modifié par eroeru, 17 septembre 2012 - 09:19 .

[DanIsNotVegan]

Rockpopple wrote...

The combat was great in DA2, and you'd just have to find some of the elite players with their builds and strategy on Youtube to see that on higher difficulties, having a good build or superior strategy was essential to getting out alive.

Agreed. My first playtrhough of DA2 was on hard, since "normal" in DA:O was too easy. Once I switched it to "normal" and the difference between the two was huge! You could easily plow through the game on normal without thinking tactics even once, though on "hard" you wouldn't last long if you didn't think a few steps ahead.

That said, I have to agree that the visuals of combat got a bit too much. But the combat of DA:O just didn't feel like enough. For me the "sweet spot" would be right in between.

As for the waves.. well.. not the best addition to a game relying on tactics.

[drake heath]

Nah, I say it needs more awesome, more edgy, more hot rod samurai.

Like, have where the warrior transforms into a flame dragon, and breaths blood all over enemies causing them to explode. All by pressing A.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Lol, DAO is great, but the combat definitely isn't. It isn't very stimulating, and feels extremely out of place on a console, IMO.

[Fishy]

Just no frigging COOLDOWN .. I`m so tired of every damned game using cooldown.

Use endurance, MANA , quickness  , dexterity and weapons speed and abilities (Like haste or whatever) to determine the pace of the combat .. BUT STOP WITH COOLDOWN.


STOP  THE MADNESS.

Although I think some stuff should be determined by number rather than ''skyrim like action'' . Like blocking , Parrying , Evading and miss rates. Rather than having a COOLDOWN or just pressing a button to evade (LIKE GW2. Dark soul) .. It`s leave more option to build a character rather than focus of holding a button to block 9Like skyrim).. Which I always hated.

Than you can add reactionnary attack  based of block or evade and even parrying. Which I think help to make combat more visceral , fast paced and fun..

For instance someone attack you .. Your character evade the attack ... You use a reactionarry attack that do more dmg or stun .. BUT guess what ? No COOLDOWN.. Nono .. rather you have endurance.

So it`s just not always on auto-attack like DA:O but less flashy and more tactical  than DA:2.

Actually should I suggest a game for combat mechanic? DAOC..

Take a look at this game and you will realize why the combat in this game was so awesome. Soemthing similiar would be so great.. SNiff

All these game with cooldown .. I AM GOING MAD.

Modifié par Suprez30, 17 septembre 2012 - 09:46 .

[MorningBird]

You know, I actually really enjoyed the combat in DA2. I often found myself button mashing in Origins (despite the fact that it had no influence over combat) simply because I had nothing better to do while the PC trotted over to their target to execute whatever attack. Heck, I sometimes felt as though I lost control of the PC/was unnecessary to combat once the target was selected because the Warden was pretty much set to auto-attack.

My problem with combat in DA2 stemmed from the restricting camera angle. I mean, I like being able to affect the speed of my PC's attacks and take a more involved role in what's going on, but tactics are fun and integral too! And in DA2, I found it challenging to execute them in a desirable fashion because I couldn't scroll out far enough to see the lay of the land.

It was awkward and often frustrating. I like DA2's combat changes, but I'd really like to see the old camera back. =(

[byzantine horse]

DAO Goods: Better camera view, more tactical fights, great ability to combo spells.
DAO Bads: Few things felt like they packed a punch. I'll make an example that might earn me unecesary ire but here goes: The shooting in FEAR is awesome, because you can completely ruin your surroundings with bullets. It feels good, the weapon recoil is nice, the sound is nice, the impact is nice. This can be applied to an isometric RPG as well, and is one thing DAO lacked. Combat also felt unresponsive as it always took a second or 2 before the spell you cast actually was cast.
DA2 Goods: Quicker and way more responsive than DAO, when you order your warrior to shield bash he shield bashes, it doesn't happen 1 or 2 seconds later. The combat had the impact DAO lacked, it had that "oomph" to it.
DA2 Bads: Too fast, way too fast. A knight in heavy plate shouldn't dash around the battlefield at 30 mph, take lessons from DAO and Dark Souls here. Responsiveness is one thing, movement speed another. Over-the-top blood and gore, enemies shouldn't ****ing explode when you hit them with a sword, the appreciative "oomph" the game did have sometime swent out the window because of this.

I want a game that is more authentic/realistic. A knight should move slower than a mage or a thief, but I want the combat to be responsive, no delays in the animation-rythm. Blood and gore levels in DAO was a good median, DA2 had it completely bonkers and I don't know who or why came up with that design choice, it just sucked. Fewer enemies that are more of a challenge than facing wave after wave of weaklings that are easily dispatched. When fighting large numbers of enemies, have a local town guard or similar help out or put the party in a very advantegous position (Think Hotgates, Thermopylae) to make it more even.

Put effort into the animations, just because the combat is responsive it doesn't have to be or look slow. In BF3, which uses the same engine as you, the movement is responsive and it doesn't look weird when you get up from the floor and run across the room in the space of a few seconds. Make decisions by the player take effect rapidly but let the movement from point A to point B be where the time is spent(example: Alistair uses Shield Bash on an enemy 10 yards away. He scuffles over there which takes some time because he wars heavy armor, but once he get there the shield bash is already "under way" and happens instantly upon contact.).