51 réponses à ce sujet

[Huntress]

Ulfros wrote...

I'll go ahead and say it - blunt and honest:

In previous Dragon Age games, interracting with companions was my absolute favourite thing to do. This includes romances.

Now, don't think of me as your teenage pervert. I'm not after the nudity (although I wouldn't mind it either). I simply loved that for once, a major RPG title of the modern day put a lot of emphasis on living in the world with other people around you (however fictional). Unlike many other games where you simply bulldoze your way through everything and use NPCs as nothing more than walking Wikipedias. 

But I felt that in DA2, less emphasis was put on my relationships with my companions, and I couldn't even talk to them whenever I felt like it. I think for DA3, they should turn the ship around and make companions more important, more fun, and more immersive than ever before.

But there's always that certain point where you 'fall in love with' (suspension of disbelief) Morrigan or Anders, or where you feel like Alistair is your best friend in the whole wide world, and you want more interaction, more cuddling, more jokes, more intimacy.

Where to people stand on this? Is companion dialogue and interraction in need of some extra attention? Should the snuggling cutscenes be taken further and require (and reward) more than they have in the past? Is there a point where it gets weird or tasteless having too much of all this?

The lack of conversation didn't start with DA2, it started with Dragon age:Awakening, many players didn't like it, I didn't like it and Bioware bring it to DA2 as if it was something that was wanted by everyone.. I raged about it then and after da2 did so again.

I do hope they allow DAO style back, if people wants to keep talking until they run out of things to talk... well is their choice. Why should everyone be content with no talking.. isn't that what bioware promote? dialog with companions and Banter?

[Dessalines]

I think Dragon Age 2 was better with the romance. I didn't even know in Origins I was flirting with both Leilana and Morrigan until Leilana accused me of doing so. I didn't like in Origins how you could complete all of you conversations before half way through the game, but did like how in Origins you could always fade to black with your LI.
No PG scenes, and the relationship evolve around more than the night before the final battle love making scene. I do like how in Dragon Ae 2, your Li kinda moved in with you.

[highcastle]

I don't want the DAO style back personally. It was really easy to run through the majority of a companion's dialogue in one sitting. And then they were largely silent for the rest of the game. I liked that the conversations in DA2 came at set points or after big moments in their companion quests or the larger plots. I also loved that companions spoke up more in quests.

Another strong point in DA2's favor was how many other characters referenced things like Hawke's LI. I'll use the Anders romance as an example. Isabela, Varric, Leandra, Gamlen, Merrill, Fenris, Aveline, Bodhan, and probably more that I've forgotten all reference in cut scenes or banter that Hawke is seeing Anders. It shows how reactive the game was and how Hawke's choices in their personal life seemed to matter to the people around them. That's something I want to see carried through.

Yes, I missed speaking with companions whenever I wanted, but one thing the scripted talks allowed was greater use of the environment. If a talk can trigger anywhere, the companions just have to stand their like statues because you don't know what's around them that might interfere with the camera angles. If it's scripted, you can be more dynamic. And like it or not, video games are a visual medium. Hence the word "video." That staging and direction and cinematography matters.

[GreyLycanTrope]

The issue for me with the DA2 interaction was how little there actually was in comparison to DA:O. Essentially every interaction scene you did with the romance option also happened only with a slightly different variation if you didn't(sex scene excluded of course). What I liked about DA:O was was very much the build up and discussing your relations ships with the LI in question. I like them giving me gifts for a change and discussing what the future might hold outside of the plot driven character quests and main story quests.

I loved Merrill or Isabela getting jealous in Mark of the Assassin if I flirted with Talis, reminded me of Morrigan disapproving if you visited the Pearl in DA:O. So yeah adding the small details here and there and maybe a few more interaction outside actual quest lines would be appreciated.

[Ghost_Nappa]

Robhuzz wrote...


A 'normal' romance option would be nice and if the character is interesting I might have my pc romance him/her but I doubt they'll be doing that again. They tried it once before and said person didn't receive much love from the community. Perhaps you remember a certain Cerberus soldier named Jacob?

Hey as a fan who happens to like Jacob, he was awesome as the voice of reason to have around. It was because of the writers character assissinated him soley because he wasn't 'populer', not because it was a major plot point...and dont get me started on the stereotype debate because of that move. 

If anything sometimes the 'normal' romances make us relook at our options. Hell Aveline is my main example and she has the most stable relationship in DA2.

[wright1978]

Rockpopple wrote...

I actually liked how companions were handled in DA2. Would i like to have been able to talk to them little more often? Sure, they're great characters. Who wouldn't? But at the same time, I liked how they had their own lives, their own psuedo-schedule. They didn't just stand around waiting for Hawke to talk to them. They spoke amongst themselves, had fun with each other, went to the bar with each other, struck up sexual relations with each other.

If anything, I think they should go further in that direction to make your companions living breathing characters with their own choices and lives. Just because they've chosen to follow you, the MC, to hell and back doesn't mean they can't make other choices in their lives for themselves. It'd make striking up a relationship with them that much more meaningful, because it'd seem more like they want to be with your character, not that they were created for the sole purpose of being with your character.

Agree completely. Da2 had  many flaws but i generally liked how they treated companions. I'd just like more  interactions.

[Sylvanpyxie]

I don't want the DAO style back personally. It was really easy to run through the majority of a companion's dialogue in one sitting.

Very much this.. But at the same time, I don't appreciate how Dragon Age 2 was completely scheduled either.

There needs to be a balance between Companion Initiated Dialogue and Player Initiated Dialogue. There needs to be topics that are unlocked at certain plot points and topics that are open whenever you wish to pursue them.

I honestly can't remember a Bioware game in the last 9 years that actually paced the Companion dialogue well. The last game was Hordes of the Underdark, an outdated expansion for a poor Original Campaign, and it worked on a scheduled interaction from the Companion that unlocked dialogue for the Player to pursue whenever they wished.

It was a good system and it allowed for Companion dialogue to flow in a very natural manner - It's not ideal for today's RPGs, which is unfortunate, but it is proof that a flawless flow of progression is possible with NPCs.

Either way, it's something that I personally feel needs to be addressed. Nothing is more annoying that a strict social time-table or an unnaturally progressive companion relationship, a nice balance needs to be found.

Just my two pennies anyway.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 17 septembre 2012 - 09:59 .

[slimgrin]

simfamSP wrote...

Where ever a line must be drawn. BioWare aren't even close to it. All these romances are done with taste, well written and provide great roleplaying opportunities for your characters. Sex should not be an issue. But as G.R.R Martin said:

I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it's madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure. Axes entering skulls, well, not so much.

Ha! I love Martin, that guy is great. Only a couple of Bioware's romances have done it for me. Anymore, it seems contrived and that they're doing romances for the sake of it, rather than letting them grow out of the story.

Modifié par slimgrin, 17 septembre 2012 - 10:04 .

[Renmiri1]

motomotogirl wrote...

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

As long as not all of the romance options are bisexual, I am happy either way.

I agree 100% with that ** snip **.  

Okay, but I don't understand how you can talk about not having Aveline or Varric as a romance option was irritating, and yet you want to make some LIs unavailable to PCs of certain genders. 

What if all the LIs who were a good match for my PC relationship-wise were the wrong gender. Isn't that just as unfair and annoying?

Yes, definitely unfair and definitely annoying.

But fear not, I think David Gaider has been pretty adamant that he will not cut options for some players just because some straight white males get unconfortable with bisexuality in their games. Cheers to him and Bioware for that! 

[mp911]

motomotogirl wrote...

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

As long as not all of the romance options are bisexual, I am happy either way.

I agree 100% with that.  That part of DA3 completely broke immersion for me.  I loved how ME3 handled romances.  It actually had gay characters with full romances.  So much more believable than everyone in the party being bisexual.
 Also, what I did not like about DA2's romances was that, in terms of personality types, none of the companions really were a good match for me relationship-wise.  I never connected with them in terms of wanting to romance them.  I really wanted to romance Aveline and/or Varic, as I related with them the most.  But alas, I could not.  

Okay, but I don't understand how you can talk about not having Aveline or Varric as a romance option was irritating, and yet you want to make some LIs unavailable to PCs of certain genders. 

What if all the LIs who were a good match for my PC relationship-wise were the wrong gender. Isn't that just as unfair and annoying?

not being able to romance alistair was frustrating,  but felt more realistic than having everyone bisexual,  like in real life you can't have always what you want, and after playing as a woman to romance him i found the brother in arm friendship way better
they should really work on the friendship alternative,  in dao and da2 you ended up having sex with 3 out of your companions in a single playthrought and it was ok, every body got along and like you (very liberate)
, fooling around should have repercutions,   having your companion living their lifes , meeting at bar were great, just like having your love one move in with you in da2

[Kinkaku]

The way DA2 handled the romances made me practically disregard it or feel anything for it, if anything it made me care less for the character, it also felt like it developed to quick and had no substance to it. Maybe the reason for that was because I couldn't really imerse my self in the game as I was able to with DA:O.

The romances in DA:O were handled very well and I would like to see that kind of effort return in the 3rd game with added subtlty and natural growth, hell even toss in a SO betraying you or better yet for added interest an abusive relationship in there somewhere would defintly add to the complexity.

But you dont have to go that far just tossing out ideas to mix it up.

Modifié par Kinkaku, 17 septembre 2012 - 10:32 .

[Blacklash93]

One thing I liked about DA2 is that companions didn't feel like just walking exposition dispensers who could fight with you. That's mostly how it was in Origins. They'd share everything with you and if you had enough approval they'd dump their complete life-story in lucid detail all at once. They'd hold their heart out to you very quickly regardless. The only ones who didn't do this were Sten and Leliana to a degree.

In DA2 they still kept secrets, they still had lives of their own, they kept out details they didn't want to share. They did so even at the end. In my opinion it went a long way to making them feel more believable.

Granted the characters did feel somewhat sparse in terms of backstory because of it, but the way DA2 did it I'd like to see bleed into the companion approach of DA3 a bit.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 17 septembre 2012 - 11:58 .

[Battlebloodmage]

Some people don't want bisexual in the third game. I would only agree if they treat all the relationship as equal. Leliana and Zevran are just side-dish. Their romance has no effect on the main plot like Alistar or Morrigan being the king or conceiving godchild.

The game itself is RPG. The world should be shaped by the player, so I would support the bisexual option and the player can just headcannon the sexuality if it upsets them. I personally support the bisexual option at the moment until they could actually write good homosexual characters. The ones they have aren't any good. Cortez is just too weak and sensitive, Samantha barely has any scene. Both Cortez and Samantha look generic. Herren and Wade are as campy as they come. I would love a gay character like Alistair or Kaidan. They're more like your everyday guy instead of crying througout most your your romantic path like Cortez.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 18 septembre 2012 - 12:38 .

[matiwariat]

If we get more companions this time around then we should get more options. Don't make all the characters bi, sure some of them but not all. Increase the amount of dialogue overall but pace it over time kind of like da2 with certain events maybe pushing things forward. Also what about romance outside of your party? Anora is a bad example but its still there.

[Ulfros]

What about a 'party camp'?

[h0neanias]

I'd like to point out that contrary to the belief of some, no, all LIs weren't bisexual in DA2, the game merely gives you freedom in interpreting their sexualities, apart from Isabela maybe -- but I get a feeling of pointlessness. Come on, hasn't this been talked about to death already?

Modifié par h0neanias, 10 octobre 2012 - 05:54 .

[Aolbain]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

As long as not all of the romance options are bisexual, I am happy either way.

I don't mind companions being bisexual,but I don't want them hitting on me when I'm straight,let them become bi only if you want it

Oh poor dear. Did it make big manly you uncomfortable to have the icky bi guy hit on you (once!)?

[LliiraAnna]

Imo there should be more dialogues in the romances, not only few like it was in DA2. The romance should actually develop and not just pop up suddenly at the end of game/chapter/whatever. To avoid the issue where you are able to read through all romance dialogues just because you have high approval, the new dialogue options probably should apper after certain events/quests are completed. So, a mix between DAO and DA2 dialogue system would be fine - we get a lot of dialogues, but they won`t all appear at once, regardless of approval rating. To get them, we`ll need to move forward trough the game.
Also, I`d appreciate it if there were multiple possible romance partners for both genders, and the romances themselves were different from each other - just like Alistair`s and Zevran`s were two completely different romances. Something darker, maybe? Hm?

[unbentbuzzkill]

there is no line it's all your imagination.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

How about no romance in DA3? I know, too much to ask.

Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 10 octobre 2012 - 07:15 .

[NitaW]

The romance options were not what I'd call hopeful for straight fem-Hawkes ... every option for such a character had serious issues. No, Hawke does not want to date the dude who is willing to lie and kill to advance his own agenda. No, Hawke does not want to constantly soothe the ego of the angry boy. Sebastian was way too off the chart choir boy unless you worked really hard at being nasty. My best buddy? Varrick. At least he understood my femHawkes and listened to them. Oh, and, of course, my dog, Barkley. In DA2, everyone ditched Hawke as soon as they could. Ever notice Hawke was never actually invited to a poker (or whatever) game? Even the DOG was invited. Apparently Hawke was not much of a friend, no matter how you played him/her. I enjoyed both versions of romance, although I agree with several others that an amalgamation of both styles would be best ... more options, but spaced out with the story. C'mon, BioWare! You can do it without the superspeed combat and supersized weapons. Believable within the logic of the game. What kind of musclebuilder would a person have to be to heft some of those pointy objects, anyway?

Modifié par NitaW, 10 octobre 2012 - 08:55 .

[frostajulie]

Ulfros wrote...

I'll go ahead and say it - blunt and honest:

In previous Dragon Age games, interracting with companions was my absolute favourite thing to do. This includes romances.

Now, don't think of me as your teenage pervert. I'm not after the nudity (although I wouldn't mind it either). I simply loved that for once, a major RPG title of the modern day put a lot of emphasis on living in the world with other people around you (however fictional). Unlike many other games where you simply bulldoze your way through everything and use NPCs as nothing more than walking Wikipedias. 

But I felt that in DA2, less emphasis was put on my relationships with my companions, and I couldn't even talk to them whenever I felt like it. I think for DA3, they should turn the ship around and make companions more important, more fun, and more immersive than ever before.

But there's always that certain point where you 'fall in love with' (suspension of disbelief) Morrigan or Anders, or where you feel like Alistair is your best friend in the whole wide world, and you want more interaction, more cuddling, more jokes, more intimacy.

Where to people stand on this? Is companion dialogue and interraction in need of some extra attention? Should the snuggling cutscenes be taken further and require (and reward) more than they have in the past? Is there a point where it gets weird or tasteless having too much of all this?

100% in agreement with your position and quoting you out of sheer laziness I care enough to contribute but not enough to formulate my own thoughts when you did a good job of expressing my own view.

[AlexJK]

Huh, necro thread here...

Ulfros wrote...

[...] Where to people stand on this? Is companion dialogue and interraction in need of some extra attention? Should the snuggling cutscenes be taken further and require (and reward) more than they have in the past? Is there a point where it gets weird or tasteless having too much of all this?

I thought the level of companion interaction and dialogue in DAO was pretty much spot on. DA2 was close, but felt a little too simplified/obvious/predictable in comparison.

I don't really want to see much more to the relationship, shall we say "accomplishment" scenes, than we have had in DAO and DA2. Dragon Age isn't a relationship simulator after all...

[Aleya]

Well, yeah, way more content. Bioware's strenght is personal interaction with cool and interesting characters. More interaction is always a good thing.

While I did not at all like the way DA2's conversations were set up, there was quite a bit of content in there. It's possible that the reason the relationships felt underdeveloped was that most of them happened off-screen, in the fade-to-black In Between Years. I don't think it had to do with a lack of content, just with a lack of the right content. Teaching Fenris to read, helping Anders out in the clinic, joining Aveline on a mundane patrol, swapping tales with Varric, out-cheating Isabela at Wicked Grace, talking the guards out of arresting Merrill for picking flowers in the wrong place, deliberately making lewd remark under your breath in the Chantry where Sebastian can hear you... DA2 was missing the little things. That's the problem with time skips. You cover all the big events and at the end of the road you realize the things that give the big events meaning were skipped over.

To give Bioware credit, they did try. Most of the gifts were excellent opportunities to create such small moments. But because they were the result of gift-giving they felt just a little artificial to me.

My take on companion interaction in both games:

-DA2 was a bit like this: companion quests + gifts + get an online guide and figure out which quests to bring them along to so you can lock in friendship/rivalry + talk when the quest log says so (+press heart icon when it pops up) = relationship.

-DA:O was more like this: talk + talk + gift + gift + talk + agree with whatever s/he says because you reaaaaally want to do that personal quest and you need x amount of rep to get it + talk some more + don't do anything that might ****** them off + yet more talking (+flirt and encourage them to flirt with you) (+have meaningful conversations and try to get them to see you and relationships in the proper light) = relationship.

Neither is perfect, exactly, but I do like talking. If DA3 doesn't manage to strike a perfect balance I hope they'll end up leaning more to the DA:O side of things.

Modifié par Aleya, 10 octobre 2012 - 10:14 .