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[LobselVith8]

Bionuts wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


That's fine. I was glaring at you for the rivalry part. 

Rivalmance with Merril is good, because she lets her guard down, and eases up her pride. She admits that she knows she's putting her friends in danger, and that she's on a dangerous path. 

I'm pretty sure rebuilding the Eluvian was less dangerous than leading an expedition into the Deep Roads. And helping end the plight of the People is more altruistic than making money; no pride required to desire an end to centuries of pain and suffering for the People.

[Blackrising]

EJ107 wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

snip

snip

It's an important message that isn't really explored in most media, where stories involving a homosexual couple almost always revolve around the difficulties they face due to their orientation, while straight romance stories just focus on the romance itself. I actually quite like that Bioware leave gender out of it for the most part, and that the conflicts arise from the relationship itself and do not generally differ between genders. You don't see that much. 

Oh yes, definitely.
Homosexual representation in media is good, yes, but god am I tired of seeing young girls struggling with their sexual orientation and eventually jumping off a bridge, women in relationships struggling with how other people view them and one of them eventually being killed off....
Whenever there's a gay character, their story revolves almost exclusively around that. They're gay and they struggle because of that. There is rarely more to their story than that.
And let's not go into the whole Dead Lesbian Syndrome. <_<

That is why the Bioware s/s romances are so refreshing. There are no long talks about 'woe is me I feel attraction of the gay variety'.
Not that there should never be mention of issues relating to being in a s/s relationship, mind you. Sometimes it fits.
But god, why is a gay character's story so often reduced to them being gay?

[Bionuts]

Xilizhra wrote...


I firmly believe the rivalmance is exactly that.

Believing it means nothing.

The only time my character was mean to her was during the Fade when Merril sided with the Pride Demon.

The rest of the rivalry points came from her disagreeing on my slightly pro-Templar Hawke, and not fully supporting her through the Eluvian (thought the quests were eventually completed).

But my character was never abusive to Merril.

[syllogi]

Bionuts wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


Keep in mind that I glared because it was shorter than saying "may the maw of Hell consume your emotionally abusive piece of crap Hawke."

My Hawke wasn't abusive. Merril simply disagreed on how she handled things.

There are quite a few rivalry lines, whether romance or platonic, that sound patronizing at best and downright nasty at worst.  I think that the idea of telling Merrill to give up on the Eluvian isn't horrible, but the way the rivalry path was implemented makes it feel like you have to be a bully to her to do it.

And hopefully this sort of thing won't happen again in DA:I with the new friendship system.

[Xilizhra]

Bionuts wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


I firmly believe the rivalmance is exactly that.

Believing it means nothing.

The only time my character was mean to her was during the Fade when Merril sided with the Pride Demon.

The rest of the rivalry points came from her disagreeing on my slightly pro-Templar Hawke, and not fully supporting her through the Eluvian (thought the quests were eventually completed).

But my character was never abusive to Merril.

We interpret your character's actions differently. It's not a case of you being more correct.

[Bionuts]

syllogi wrote...


There are quite a few rivalry lines, whether romance or platonic, that sound patronizing at best and downright nasty at worst.  I think that the idea of telling Merrill to give up on the Eluvian isn't horrible, but the way the rivalry path was implemented makes it feel like you have to be a bully to her to do it.

And hopefully this sort of thing won't happen again in DA:I with the new friendship system.

My Hawke did not pick abusive dialogue options, though.

However, I might play one in the future just to see what happens.

[Bionuts]

Xilizhra wrote...


We interpret your character's actions differently. It's not a case of you being more correct.

I fail to see how being pro-templar is abusive to Merril.

Modifié par Bionuts, 15 septembre 2013 - 01:32 .

[Xilizhra]

I fail to see how being pro-templar is abusive to Merril.

True. That's abusive to many innocent people beyond Merrill and not restricted to her alone, which... doesn't help, but at least your PC is openly a douche so can be avoided more easily?

[Ianamus]

Blackrising wrote...

Oh yes, definitely.
Homosexual representation in media is good, yes, but god am I tired of seeing young girls struggling with their sexual orientation and eventually jumping off a bridge, women in relationships struggling with how other people view them and one of them eventually being killed off....
Whenever there's a gay character, their story revolves almost exclusively around that. They're gay and they struggle because of that. There is rarely more to their story than that.
And let's not go into the whole Dead Lesbian Syndrome. <_<

That is why the Bioware s/s romances are so refreshing. There are no long talks about 'woe is me I feel attraction of the gay variety'.
Not that there should never be mention of issues relating to being in a s/s relationship, mind you. Sometimes it fits.
But god, why is a gay character's story so often reduced to them being gay?

I find it quite annoying as I really enjoy sappy and comedic romances and tend to dislike more dramatic and angsty romance stories. 

One of the reason I took to watching anime was because it's the closest I can get to a true "Disney-esque" same sex romance. One where gender is completely inconsequential and the story revolves around silly relationship issues, light-hearted comedy that doesn't even touch upon gay stereotypes and so much sweetness you could catch diabetes from it. 

But all I see in western media is angst angst angst. Or, more accurately gayngst, which really get's a bit tiring after awhile  I guess the problem is those sort of things are generally aimed at a yonger audience, which is a complete no-go for same sex relationships for some reason. 

Bioware do a really good job of it though, and I do thank them for that 

Modifié par EJ107, 15 septembre 2013 - 01:44 .

[Bionuts]

Xilizhra wrote...

I fail to see how being pro-templar is abusive to Merril.

True. That's abusive to many innocent people beyond Merrill and not restricted to her alone, which... doesn't help, but at least your PC is openly a douche so can be avoided more easily?

Being pro-templar is being a douche? Lulz.

No reason to be so fanatical about such things. There is good and bad in both groups. The goal should be to support compromises.

However, this turned into you going crazy for the mages, so there's no point to continue.

[Xilizhra]

Bionuts wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I fail to see how being pro-templar is abusive to Merril.

True. That's abusive to many innocent people beyond Merrill and not restricted to her alone, which... doesn't help, but at least your PC is openly a douche so can be avoided more easily?

Being pro-templar is being a douche? Lulz.

No reason to be so fanatical about such things. There is good and bad in both groups. The goal should be to support compromises.

However, this turned into you going crazy for the mages, so there's no point to continue.

I removed the chance of compromise, because there is no compromise.

[kaymarierose]

Blackrising wrote...

EJ107 wrote...
I actually quite like that Bioware leave gender out of it for the most part, and that the conflicts arise from the relationship itself and do not generally differ between genders. You don't see that much. 

*Snip*
But god, why is a gay character's story so often reduced to them being gay? 

This is exactly the point I was trying to explain earlier, much simpler here.

[Sporothrix]

kaymarierose wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

EJ107 wrote...
I actually quite like that Bioware leave gender out of it for the most part, and that the conflicts arise from the relationship itself and do not generally differ between genders. You don't see that much. 

*Snip*
But god, why is a gay character's story so often reduced to them being gay? 

This is exactly the point I was trying to explain earlier, much simpler here.

But I feel that if we go to completely opposite direction, it isn't good either, and it seems that's kinda what happens in Dragon Age. Take a look how City Elf Origin was handled. My elf couldn't even mention to her father that she doesn't want to get married because she doesn't like men (this way). Of course I get that it was about arranged marriage and so on, but it certainly wouldn't hurt if you had such option in discussion.

But if you said something about it, then it would end with conclusion that they want to force a lesbian into marriage with a man, so all those people here who love "being treated the same way as straight" would probably complain (although if we couldn't say anything about it, doesn't it suggest that our character didn't want to come out to her father BECAUSE society has problem with it? Or alternatively, maybe devs assume our female character can't be gay, and must be bisexual if not straight).
Instead, outside of same sex romances, our characters are treated as straight and even forced to act as straight whether we like it or not.

Modifié par misoretu9, 15 septembre 2013 - 12:01 .

[philippe willaume]

Blackrising wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

snip

snip

It's an important message that isn't really explored in most media, where stories involving a homosexual couple almost always revolve around the difficulties they face due to their orientation, while straight romance stories just focus on the romance itself. I actually quite like that Bioware leave gender out of it for the most part, and that the conflicts arise from the relationship itself and do not generally differ between genders. You don't see that much. 

Oh yes, definitely.
Homosexual representation in media is good, yes, but god am I tired of seeing young girls struggling with their sexual orientation and eventually jumping off a bridge, women in relationships struggling with how other people view them and one of them eventually being killed off....
Whenever there's a gay character, their story revolves almost exclusively around that. They're gay and they struggle because of that. There is rarely more to their story than that.
And let's not go into the whole Dead Lesbian Syndrome. <_<

That is why the Bioware s/s romances are so refreshing. There are no long talks about 'woe is me I feel attraction of the gay variety'.
Not that there should never be mention of issues relating to being in a s/s relationship, mind you. Sometimes it fits.
But god, why is a gay character's story so often reduced to them being gay?

For the same reason that you seldom see a kick ass heroine that has not been raped or has not been tempered with via experiment or other worldly power or a male action hero that is versed in in poetry or litterature and like fluffy kitten.
Basically probably because of the Viewers Are Morons trope.

Now to be fair, whilst movie like "the world unseen" or "bound" would have worked just as well with a straight couples, "I can't think straight", "brokeback mountains" like  "guess who's comming to diner"  only works because of the background. ie the vison of the society on the realtionship.

Phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 15 septembre 2013 - 12:22 .

[Angrywolves]

Time to bump this.
smiles.
Didn't particularly like DA2 's romance system
Did the rivalry romance with Merrill.
My hawke refused to help her fix the Eluvian.

I guess when I do play DAI it'll be a one romance per game thing.
My lady Inquisitor will have to decide who and if the game allows, it'll be Cassandra for my first playthrough.

[Darkwingduck]

I liked the way that Mass Effect did the romance/friendship interactions in that your status with people was based upon conversations you had with them as a whole instead of min maxing tiny interactions because I end up meta gaming to try and get the highest results instead of playing the game and being true to the character I had created. Sure I want my choices in game to matter to whomever I'm romancing but I don't want to have to change the way I play because I don't want to deal with that -10 or -15 because they didn't innately agree with what I did. I'd rather be given the chance to talk things out rather than deal with this middle school 'I didn't like that so screw you' mentality. I'd like to be able to admit fault or apologize or convince the person I did what was right.

Back to my initial Mass Effect comment though I was as a whole impressed by the Liara relationship and while I wouldn't want a direct 100% copy I'd like to see some of the qualities in a DA:I character. I felt going through the games that Liara was always a good match because she never felt like a subordinate to Shepard but rather an adviser and at times even an equal. She had opinions but it never felt to me as though she was pushing an agenda on me. I also liked that she was sort of the calm levelheaded one a lot of the time where Shepard was very headstrong but maybe that's just my play style. It was also nice to have someone care about Shepard and sort of try to take care or protect her seeing as that's what Shepard tries to do to everyone else. I think over all I like the idea of having an equal who compliments the player character, also someone who wants to be with you as much as you do them. Maybe it's because I'm an adult now but I'm less impressed with chasing after someone who doesn't seem like they're taking a romance as seriously as the P.C . Looking at you Isabela, looking at you.

[zMataxa]

Bionuts wrote...

Someone here doesn't like Traynor? Why?!?!?

It was a nice romance. Not the best in the world, but it was nice

_______________

Why?
Traynor=White picket fence and 2.1 children and a dog.
OK.  Fine in ME series.
In DA world --- Please no.

[zMataxa]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Deventh wrote...

Isabela and Morrigan. These 2 are my all time favourite characters in the Dragon Age universe so far. I am really hoping we get to romance them as a female character

I think that if there is one sad truth in the Dragon Age universe, it is that Morrigan is undoubtedly straight.

_____________

Undoubtedly you did not find the proper mods.

[Xilizhra]

zMataxa wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

Someone here doesn't like Traynor? Why?!?!?

It was a nice romance. Not the best in the world, but it was nice

_______________

Why?
Traynor=White picket fence and 2.1 children and a dog.
OK.  Fine in ME series.
In DA world --- Please no.

Why not in DA?

[zMataxa]

ME is the possible future - far far away.
DA is a total escape where all rules are out the window. Also out the window are more ordinary tastes. A Lelianna, Merril, Isabella is more the norm.
Aveline is as close to normal aspirations as I'd like to see.
I realize that is a personal preference.

[The Hierophant]

Xilizhra wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

Someone here doesn't like Traynor? Why?!?!?

It was a nice romance. Not the best in the world, but it was nice

_______________

Why?
Traynor=White picket fence and 2.1 children and a dog.
OK.  Fine in ME series.
In DA world --- Please no.

Why not in DA?

Dawww. Don't worry Xil i'll petition the writers to include a romance that ends with a white picket fence, 2.1 children and a dog for you.

[Xilizhra]

The Hierophant wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

Someone here doesn't like Traynor? Why?!?!?

It was a nice romance. Not the best in the world, but it was nice

_______________

Why?
Traynor=White picket fence and 2.1 children and a dog.
OK.  Fine in ME series.
In DA world --- Please no.

Why not in DA?

Dawww. Don't worry Xil i'll petition the writers to include a romance that ends with a white picket fence, 2.1 children and a dog for you.

Actually, I have no burning need for it, I was only curious. Thanks for the offer regardless.

[The Hierophant]

Knowing David Gaider he'll probably include a divorce 2 years later.

[animedreamer]

Rockpopple wrote...

I think the way ME3 did it, where specific characters were gay, straight or bisexual, instead of the whole cast being bisexual or ambiguous, is the way to go.

There should be one or two characters that are of the lesbian persuasion. As for who they should be.... who knows? I'll leave that open.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[kinderschlager]

The Uncanny wrote...

 How suggestive should sex scenes be? 

explicite levels:O