65 réponses à ce sujet

[FINE HERE]

Yes please!

[draken-heart]

I am cool with it, My mage in Origins and Awakening that I am redoing is a AW/BldM/BtlM (BldM=Blood mage and BtlM=Battle mage). could have had potential for DA2 but Bioware nipped that one.

Modifié par draken-heart, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:05 .

[Iron Star]

I'm redoing a DA:O playthrough aswell, going AW, BldM, Spirit healer since I'm going for GoA insanity mode.

Going to change thread title to Arcane warriors and other potentil specs for mages, since it seems this thread has evolved into something like that, and I like it.

[Morroian]

Wulfram wrote...

Arcane Warriors in Origins were horrible balanced and had boring gameplay.

Not opposed to a mage who can swing a sword in principle, but they need to be a lot better than the Arcane Warrior.

Yeah I agree, I'd like some sort of AW spec in this direction based around doing melee damage, but I also want them to retain blood mage and force mage. I guess they will retain spirit healer because people like being healers.

[Biotic_Warlock]

They need to nerf the arcane warrior after what happened in origins.

I like the concept, but it was incredible imbalanced.

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:45 .

[Iron Star]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

They need to nerf the arcane warrior after what happened in origins.

I like the concept, but it was incredible imbalanced.

Of course. From what most people in here have already said, a "new" form of arcane warriors more focused on the melee combat aspect instead of übertanking is what people want to see. I for one still want to be able to tank, but probably to a lesser degree than in DA:O.

[DreGregoire]

Arcane warrior is really cool (all my mages were one in DAO, in DAII I just Modded in the skill trees I wanted) but I think being able to cross class might make it less of a specialization and more of a mage skill. Of course this is just me speaking with the hope that we might be able to cross class, but I'm not holding my breath or anything. LOL!

[Dhiro]

Unless I'm mistaken, a dev commented that they planned to add the Archmage spec on DA II. IIRC, it would work based on the element of the staff you're using. I'd personally love a spec based on elemental magic, and the name Archmage sounds amazing.

I'd also love an illusionist spec, maybe a mage + rogue hybrid that uses magic for deception?

[Patchwork]

I'm not against a melee mage spec but with the lore behind Arcane Warrior I'd prefer that AW is left behind in Origins. It feels like an old Dalish secret that shouldn't be commonly used and it very OP.

If they re-worked battlemage so the halberd style staff is an effective melee weapon, exclusive close range spells and let the mage wear whatever armour as long as the strength stat is high enough we avoid lore problems. There's no real reason why a mage can't wear armour and prefer hitting the enemy over constant spell casting and wearing a dress.

In DA3 the majority of mages are free from the Circle's restrictions and they're at war, becoming better fighters seems logical.

[The Baconer]

2h (or melee staff) glass cannon class built around risk/reward powers. Think of it as a combination of Reaver and Blood Mage.

Modifié par The Baconer, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:49 .

[ianvillan]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

I loved Arcane Warrior, but if they're resurrecting a spec I hope it's Shapeshifter. Even though the powers weren't that great I loved the idea of being a mage that could change their form at will. I always took Shapeshifter as a spec in DA:O.


And yes, I am aware that Shapeshifter was not very popular and probably won't be back.

The way they did shapeshifter in the fade was better, and I would love shapeshifter like that to come back.

Or a summoner spec where you can summon spirits, Demons or bring corpses back to life to fight for you.

[hexaligned]

Wulfram wrote...

Arcane Warriors in Origins were horrible balanced and had boring gameplay.

Not opposed to a mage who can swing a sword in principle, but they need to be a lot better than the Arcane Warrior.

Well the game was horribly balanced in general.  I don't care about the AW, I just want weapons not to be tied to classes, at all.  I made melee mages in DAO, it felt more balanced to me to just split their stats up though (to variying degrees depending on what I wanted them to be stronger at).

Modifié par relhart, 19 septembre 2012 - 03:21 .

[Dhiro]

ianvillan wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

I loved Arcane Warrior, but if they're resurrecting a spec I hope it's Shapeshifter. Even though the powers weren't that great I loved the idea of being a mage that could change their form at will. I always took Shapeshifter as a spec in DA:O.


And yes, I am aware that Shapeshifter was not very popular and probably won't be back.

The way they did shapeshifter in the fade was better, and I would love shapeshifter like that to come back.

Or a summoner spec where you can summon spirits, Demons or bring corpses back to life to fight for you.

I think it would be better if the demon-summoning and such was a blood mage ability. It's more interesting than our current many "I'm sucking your blood!" techniques (though I wouldn't like to lose our health-replenishing abilities!)

[Renmiri1]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Get fired up wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Arcane Warrior and Fenris talent tree would be

Fenris is just a Templar...

While we're on it, why not bring back spirit warriors aswell? Makes for great role-playing concepts.
"I'm a mage, but still not a mage. Hmm..."

i want spirit warriors back 
i would have liked it to be a little different, like having a sustained ability that increases the range of your melee attack and deals spirit damage [like a ghostly wave slash extending from your normal slash], a weak ranged spirit attack similar to spirit bolt but more useful to pull enemy's aggro rather than damage, and a "spirit form" mode that allows the spirit to materialize and fight at your side [kinda like nero's in DMC4 devil trigger] at the expense of your stamina, slowly draining until it's gone....also Evangeline De Brassard

Arcane Warrior - Mage w/ Warrior armor
Spirit Warrior - Warrior who can do some magic

:wub:

[ReallyRue]

Personally, I don't mind what spec they have, so long as there is some form of melee attacking for mages, and preferably a tree on the talent trees for melee skills. Though I liked AW, it wasn't well thought out. Many of the spells required sheathing weapons to cast, yet there was no pattern to those spells (they weren't necessarily 'better suited' to an AW). A few weapon talents wouldn't go amiss.

[Beerfish]

There has to be some SUBSTANTIAL penalties for becoming an arcane warrior. That class was so overpowered in DAO it was silly. I could play as badly as I can play, make as many mistakes as I could. Go answer the phone or have a coffee and my AW would still beat the hell out of any opposition.

[Iosev]

It's not hard to see how the idea of the Arcane Warrior is great (i.e., a mage clad in armor and melee weapons), but the specialization did not translate well in DA:O. First of all, the specialization resulted largely in activating sustainable abilities and auto-attack, which in my opinion, was very dull. Secondly, I found myself relying on ranged AoE spells to establish threat (in addition to Miasma) and deal damage, which sort of made me wonder why I was even using melee weapons. Finally, the armor and sustainable abilities just made your character have too much survivability, which just felt imbalanced.

In my opinion, the Templar in DA 2 was probably the closest thing to a functional "melee mage" archetype, as they could use instant, weapon attacks (Righteous Strike), instant, spell attacks (Holy Smite), Increased damage protection (Annulment), as well as synergy with the the other class talent trees.

So my question is, how do you re-introduce the Arcane Warrior in a fun, balanced, and unique way, while having it maintain synergy with the other magical schools (since you're going to have to put talent points outside of the specialization)?

Modifié par arcelonious, 19 septembre 2012 - 04:16 .

[Giltspur]

I like the idea of a melee mage for one of the specs.  And I think it would be cool to re-use the "Arcane Warrior" name.  Though I wouldn't want it to be a passive buff machine.  I think it would be cool if he was a a sort of samurai (guy that's one with his chosen melee weapon) that has close-range magic (like a battle mage) and that uses illusion and alteration (in the D&D sense) magic to avoid/mitigate incoming damage. 

Modifié par Giltspur, 19 septembre 2012 - 04:10 .

[Reaverwind]

arcelonious wrote...

It's not hard to see how the idea of the Arcane Warrior is great (i.e., a mage clad in armor), but the specialization did not translate well in DA:O. First of all, the specialization resulted largely in activating sustainable abilities and auto-attack, which in my opinion, was very dull. Secondly, I found myself relying on ranged AoE spells to establish threat (in addition to Miasma) and deal damage, which sort of made me wonder why I was even using melee weapons. Finally, the armor and sustainable abilities just made your character have too much survivability, which just felt imbalanced.

In my opinion, the Templar in DA 2 was probably the closest thing to a functional "melee mage" archetype, as they could use instant, weapon attacks (Righteous Strike), instant spell attacks (Holy Smite), Increased damage protection (Annulment), as well as synergy with the the other class talent trees.

So my question is, how do you re-introduce the Arcane Warrior in a fun, balanced, and unique way, while having it maintain synergy with the other magical schools (since you're going to have to put talent points outside of the specialization)?

Something along the lines of the warden melee talents in EQ2 would work. Implement a mode which changes certain spells into melee talents.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 19 septembre 2012 - 04:20 .

[Iosev]

Giltspur wrote...

I like the idea of a melee mage for one of the specs.  And I think it would be cool to re-use the "Arcane Warrior" name.  Though I wouldn't want it to be a passive buff machine.  I think it would be cool if he was a a sort of samurai (guy that's one with his chosen melee weapon) that has close-range magic (like a battle mage) and that uses illusion and alteration (in the D&D sense) magic to avoid/mitigate incoming damage. 

I agree that some form of a close-ranged school of magic would help the Arcane Warrior, along with giving other Mage specializations extra protection and utility.

Reaverwind wrote...

Something along the lines of the warden melee talents in EQ2 would work. Implement a mode which changes certain spells into melee talents.

Perhaps they could create variations in spells in the other magical schools that changed whether you have a staff or sword equipped?  For example, they could add a variation to the Fireball spell that makes it become Flamestrike if a sword is equipped, or a variation in Chain Lightning that changes it into Magnetic Aura, which pulls enemies towards you.  I'm guessing that would require a dramatic revamp of the mage schools, though, so I don't know how feasible it would be.

Modifié par arcelonious, 19 septembre 2012 - 04:41 .

[Reaverwind]

arcelonious wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

Something along the lines of the warden melee talents in EQ2 would work. Implement a mode which changes certain spells into melee talents.

Perhaps they could create variations in spells in the other magical schools that changed whether you have a staff or sword equipped?  For example, they could add a variation to the Fireball spell that makes it become Flamestrike if a sword is equipped, or a variation in Chain Lightning that changes it into Magnetic Aura, which pulls enemies towards you.  I'm guessing that would require a dramatic revamp of the mage schools, though, so I don't know how feasible it would be.

Converting fireball to flamestrike is exactly what I'm talking about, but changing a spell from a straight-up damage dealer to a crowd-control talent isn't.

[Iosev]

Reaverwind wrote...


Converting fireball to flamestrike is exactly what I'm talking about, but changing a spell from a straight-up damage dealer to a crowd-control talent isn't.

Ah yes, I agree, I was just trying to quickly make up an ability (particularly a threat/crowd control ability) just for argument's sake (at the time I was just thinking about electricity and magnetism, so I was recalling some of the primal magic spells).

Modifié par arcelonious, 19 septembre 2012 - 04:49 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

I would definitely like Force Mage to stay as a specialization, being able to completely manipulate the battlefield in such a manner was incredible.

I'm not a big fan of Arcane Warrior - The specialization always felt kind of clunky and it was absurdly overpowered - but if they're able to fix the issues that it had in Origins, I can't see why it couldn't make a roaring return.

The thing I would like to see most though is the concept that got most neglected from Origins - Shapeshifter. It was a very half-arsed specialization whose talent tree offered very little in the way of utility or power, but I think if it's available forms were changed to something relatively useful, in terms of utility or damage, it could be a great deal of fun.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 19 septembre 2012 - 04:50 .

[Reaverwind]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

I would definitely like Force Mage to stay as a specialization, being able to completely manipulate the battlefield in such a manner was incredible.

I'm not a big fan of Arcane Warrior - The specialization always felt kind of clunky and it was absurdly overpowered - but if they're able to fix the issues that it had in Origins, I can't see why it couldn't make a roaring return.

The thing I would like to see most though is the concept that got most neglected from Origins - Shapeshifter. It was a very half-arsed specialization whose talent tree offered very little in the way of utility or power, but I think if it's available forms were changed to something relatively useful, in terms of utility or damage, it could be a great deal of fun.

I actually would prefer a well-done shape-shifter spec over arcane warrior, myself.

[nightscrawl]

Get fired up wrote...

As of now, this thread is dedicated to discussing not only AW's, but other mage specs aswell. What do you want to see in your mage in DA III, give us the specs you wish to return, or give us ideas to new specs that you feel are needed! Just remember to explain to us why you want it to return, and what niche the spec should fill out.

Here is a repost of something I wrote in a thread almost a year ago...


In terms of existing abilities, specifically regarding the mage primary damage trees, I felt that it could have been organized a bit better. In general, I don't really see a separation between the various elements of fire/frost or stone/lightning. Those can all be considered as "earthy" type skills, or all basic elemental type skills, just like they are in DAO.

If paring them off is necessary, perhaps that could have been done a bit differently as well: lightning/fire can be a complete damage tree (lightning can set things on fire), where as frost/stone can be a defensive tree (frost can be used to slow or be slippery, or encase in ice like Brittle currently works - there is also the mountain [stone] erosion of freeze/thaw cycles where water gets in cracks, freezes and expands, eventually causing parts to break off over time.) If you want to keep these four elements, examining the relationship between them can help skill designers come up with more unique combinations.


I've been playing DAO again recently, and my main class there is mage. While I did like some of the clear roles of the DAO spells schools (damage, debilitation, protection, crowd control, healing/support), I also liked how the DA2 trees had the basic spells and then the upgrades as you moved further out on the tree. I'll also add that I felt that the creation tree in DA2 was perfect.

I also would like a couple of additional single target DOT (damage over time) spells. DAO had several DOTs -- walking bomb, virulent walking bomb, crushing prison, curse of mortality, and stinging swarm. DA2 only had two -- corrosive walking bomb (the upgrade), and crushing prison. While I don't think there needs to be as many (or as powerful) DOTs as DAO had, one addition might be nice. Perhaps some sort of persistent fire DOT that burns, it can be called "seethe" or something.

Also, with the way the DA2 spell trees were constructed, it was entirely possible to spend points in such a way as to not get any DOTs at all. In order to solve the dilemma of a player loading up on DOTs, I would like to have a single DOT spell in each damage tree, but have it be at the far end of the tree so a player will really have to think about their point spread. Do they want a spirit DOT at the end of a tree with mostly defensive spells, or do they want a fire DOT with their fire spells, which they are going to be using anyway?

Modifié par nightscrawl, 19 septembre 2012 - 05:23 .