344 réponses à ce sujet

[obZen DF]

Good points Eire Icon. Sometimes it felt like you HAD to bring Anders with you all the time because of your point mentioned. Not that I dislike him though But it sure needs to be more balanced.

[Jackums]

obZen DF wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

75% Origins, 25% DA2. 

While Origins combat was far from perfect it was still a great deal better than Dragon Fantasy 2.

• Speed it up a bit, but not as much as DA2.
• DA 2 responsiveness, nothing was more annoying in origins than a bunch of enemies showing up and damage/actions are delayed by a second or two.
• Animations don't really need to be realistic but they don't need to be over the top like in DA 2.
• Friendly Fire toggle in options instead of related to difficulty.
• Please make a variation of stats actually matter (Origins: Dexterity contributes to dodging/landing attacks)  compared to DA2 (Put all/a vast majority of points into strength because that's all that really matters to a warrior)
• Smart AI of course.
• Bring back dual wield warriors, arcane warriors, shape shifter, and ranger.
• Abiltiy to use the enviornment.  (Igniting an oil slick for extra damage.  Origins had this started but there were too few chances to use them.)
• Spell combos
• No exploding enemies simply because I put a knife in their throat.
• Higher difficulties mean smarter and more resourceful AI, not add immunities and over inflated HP.
• More than one specialization for companions and atleast have them make sense.  (Wynne completely hated blood magic but would accept it as a specialization and use it openly in combat, what the hell?)
• No waves of enemies or atleast have it make sense as to why they show up.  (Example: Jail Break, fighting in the lower chambers, the noise of battle echos throughout the prison and the warden sends a few soldiers to check it out.  Another one would be: Your party is fighting a blood mage and he summons a few demons to help him in the middle of combat.)
• A medium between the staff animations in Origins and DA2.  (The staff twirl dance was over the top, but the poking was way too slow.)
• Healing spell function the way they did in origins. (Healing a rather low amount but having a much quicker cool down was much better)
• Finishing moves.  (Sure not realistic but more believable than Carver/Hawke leaping 50 feet in the air and smashing them with a Two-hander.

All I can really think of right now, will probably add more once I replay both games to be sure.

ALL OF THIS!!!

This would be the perfect game.

[The_11thDoctor]

DA2 Legacy dlc combat, but more fleshed out. More on the strategy side with tons more enemies, horse battles, ship battles, warriors with more weapons than just swords. (Spears, maces, hammers, etc), Arcane warriors, Nature magic, spirit magic, etc.

[cindercatz]

Here's what I summarized in the Top 5 thread:

"Revamped Combat:
Goes back to the Origins stat system for the most part, emphasizes battlefield tactics rather than gamey things like ccc, has lock-on auto-attack and auto-defense with synched animation ala Arkham and Assassin's Creed games, has more visceral, realistic basic combat animation and finishers that aren't on speed crack, introduces a running transitional attack that replaces the instant attack jumps or DA:O shuffling, allows for more party members in the party at all times or at least in more frequent larger battles, has no giant lifebars unless it's a high dragon, brood mother type thing, does not rely heavily on resistances and immunities, and allows for mounted combat in some battles (treat it statistically and game mechanically like a summons), all in that order (see my 30some odd point list in my suggestion thread posts in the DA2 forum)"

Okay, now I'm gonna go try to find that old post and see if I can link it. It pretty much stands as what I want, though I might add a few ideas. I also like that longer list a little bit above. :-)

[nightscrawl]

Other than the staff action in DA2, and significantly reduced AOE abilities (which were a bit crazy and OP in DAO), I felt that mages and warriors were pretty similar. The main difference between classes and combat that had an impact on me was between the rogue class from DAO to DA2.

I absolutely cannot STAND the rogue in DAO. Ranged or melee, I find them equally boring. Playing as a bow Leliana was boring. Playing as melee Zevran was somewhat OK, so I decided to make a Warden rogue. I couldn't get past 1/3 of the game, it was so damn boring.

DA2 rogue was considerably more entertaining. While fun, I agree that some of the jumping around got a bit carried away, but that didn't lessen the enjoyment for me. I think the main thing I liked was the speed of the attacking, and being able to actively use stealth in combat, and have it be a part of combat strategy in a way the DAO stealth never was. And I've gotta say, Vendetta is my favorite ability in the entire game. >

Even if you slow rogue down a bit from DA2, PLEASE never make the DAO rogue again.

ScarMK wrote...

75% Origins, 25% DA2. 

While Origins combat was far from perfect it was still a great deal better than Dragon Fantasy 2.

<long list cut out>

Totally loving all of this!

Modifié par nightscrawl, 19 septembre 2012 - 11:26 .

[aggors]

Bring back Tactical isometric camera view from DA:O.

Realism. No anime style combat like in DA2 where you could fly around with a two handed sword like it was made out of cardboard, a two handed sword should actually look heavy like in DA:O.

[zyntifox]

A question for you who thought that the speed of combat was too slow in DA:O. Is the problem that the party acts too slow, monsters or both? And if you was only bothered by the speed of the party members was it fast enough when you used haste?
I'm just curious since i find DA:O's combat too fast when i activate haste so i tend to stay clear of that ability.

[EricHVela]

Mostly something like DA:O combat, but it was cumbersome for certain platforms. We cannot expect them to design different combat styles for the same game just because it's on different platforms. Too much time and/or cost.

[Cathey]

DA2 has my favourite combat, i will admit, all because Mage is so fun. I dislike playing a mage on Origins or any other game but DA2 is a game where i'm comfortable with all classes.

Rogue is the playstyle I usually go for because i'm more comfortable with bows.

So i'd say a mixture between Origins and DA2.

[obZen DF]

aggors wrote...

Bring back Tactical isometric camera view from DA:O.

Realism. No anime style combat like in DA2 where you could fly around with a two handed sword like it was made out of cardboard, a two handed sword should actually look heavy like in DA:O.

It really felt like a massive blow when Sten swung his greatsword into a genlock.
And I'd like to see the Ranger ability to be back. I loved my Leliana with her cute wolf in combat.
Too bad DA2 didn't have that.

[cindercatz]

Cstaf wrote...

A question for you who thought that the speed of combat was too slow in DA:O. Is the problem that the party acts too slow, monsters or both? And if you was only bothered by the speed of the party members was it fast enough when you used haste?
I'm just curious since i find DA:O's combat too fast when i activate haste so i tend to stay clear of that ability.

My favorite character (a rogue) used all of the speed up passives constantly, along with defense passives. I never stuck with a two hander character, though, because I thought they were far too slow. And we definitely need more the DA:O system, just much faster.

More of what I want to see:
http://social.biowar...154366#14169564

nightscrawl wrote...

and being able to actively use stealth in combat, and have it be a part of combat strategy in a way the DAO stealth never was.

Gotta agree with this. The stealth in combat was a major improvement, one of the bright spots in a system I was mostly very unsatisfied with.

And more:
http://social.biowar...3680/2#14169430

And agreed with the post below mine, except about combining the rogue and warrior classes and the strength speed modifier (unnecessary use of system resources). Don't do those. :-)

OKAY, finally found my initial listed ideas for the DA3 hybridized combat system (+new), 30some odd points:
http://social.biowar...8680/50#6747579

Okay

Modifié par cindercatz, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:39 .

[abnocte]

- Combat tree for mages ( at least for their staffs )

- Merge Warrior and Rogues classes and allow us to choose wich kind of "warrior" we want to be.

- Rogue abilites avaliable to all... both "classes"

- Stealth implemented in the same fashion as in "Mark of the Assassin"

- Spell combos

- DAO finishing moves

- DAO camera

- More "down-to-earth" combat animations

- No exploding bodies unless there's a spell that does exactly that

- Symetrical combat ( ie: PC, companions and enemies follow the same "rules" )

- 2nd weapon slot ( this is must, I don't run after enemies I switch to ranged weapon and put an arrow on their backs )

- No "teleporting". I don't want my warriors/rogues jumping insane distances just to reach a fleeing enemy ( read above ), a special/faster running animation or nothing.

- Allow us to use spells/skills always ( DA2 restricted these to "combat mode", meaning you could NEVER ambush )

- I would like to see come back Wounds and Fatigue mechanics and the Overwhelm ability

- In DAO 2 handed weapons animations were too slow, in DA2 too fast... something in between ( If it is doable,  a strength modifier for speed animation )

- Combat log avaliable somewhere!!

- Combat statsdistics please?

Can't think of anything more at the moment...

[Coachdongwiffle]

I'm a little saddened by this thread. Everyone wants a mix. but i think DAO was unique in it's own way and shouldn't be incorporated in DA3. Sure DA2 was a little over the top at times but DAO is almost unplayable to me now. do what happened between ME2 and ME3 keep the general style just make improvements not overhauls. I don't like exploding enemies though. i thought that was stupid. Finishing kills could be brought back though those were cool.

[ReallyRue]

 I posted something like this somewhere in a DA2 thread. I found DA2's combat more fun, but a bit silly, and enemies (except in the DLCs) generally weren't interesting. I did love the talent/spell tree though, having different 'schools' for warriors and rogues is a marvellous idea. DAO's combat was clunky. I don't just mean slow. But it had a less exaggerated feel to it.

I don't like to do the whole "look at this game, this game did it better" thing, but honestly, when I was fighting in Dragon's Dogma, the combat *was* much better. It has similar classes, and some combined ones, and the classes managed to be fun and challenging, without being OTT. So I'll use some videos as an example while I try to explain what I think would be better for DA3 (it's mostly about movement style tbh).

- Dual-Wielding Rogues and Archers: Dual wielding should consisting of quick, sharp slashes with the dagger. Less powerful than a warrior, but quicker and more agile. The movement should look fluid, and although the rogue should look flexible, dextrous, etc, they shouldn't necessarily be rolling and cartwheeling around the map. I like the idea of using some kind of device to drag foes to you, or using 'tricks' (like the bombs, traps, decoys in DAO/2). As for the bow, I think DA2 did pretty well, and there were various different talents that were useful and *looked* different when they were used. The speed seemed right too. No out-of-range bow twirling though.

- Two-Handed Warriors and Sword and Board Warriors: Two-Handers in DAO looked absurdly slow and heavy, while in DA2 they looked like feathers. For a start, two-handers should require two hands to use. Movements should be much slower than rogues, and slower than sword and boarders, but it should look powerful and strong instead. One strong move swipe rather than several quick ones. Sword and Shields meanwhile shouldn't just be tanks. The shield should be used defensively and actually look like it's important to the style. The sword needs more 'skill' and style to it than two-hander techniques, faster than Two-handers but slower than daggers. DAO's sword and shield style was actually good. If it wasn't for the clunky manouvering, it would've been better.

-Mages: The appearance and function of the spells, I have no problem with (though DA2's tempest and firestorm looked a bit weak in comparison to DAO's), but the actual mages themselves should look collected and powerful. When firing off a simple bolt, there's nothing wrong with simply standing straight, pointing the staff and firing (similar to DA2's Spirit Bolt spell). You don't need to squat and poke, and you don't need to twirl it around like a majorette. I liked DA2's actions/gestures for actual spell-casting though (especially Crushing Prison and the entropic hexes). Just actions that suggest primal power really. The fact that mages in DA2 actually use their staffs defensively when attacked with melee weapons is a good thing. There's also a spell in another video at 5:46 where the mage conjures lightning to use as a whip. That is an excellent short-range spell. More short-range spells.

In general, it might be good to add another weapon tree each to the warrior and rogue trees (and a staff melee tree to mage trees). Afterall, we've seen kossith using spears/javelins in DA2, and read about flails and 'double-clubs' (are those nunchucks?) in the novels. It would be interesting to branch out considering the amount of weapon types.

[obZen DF]

Coachdongwiffle wrote...

I'm a little saddened by this thread. Everyone wants a mix. but i think DAO was unique in it's own way and shouldn't be incorporated in DA3. Sure DA2 was a little over the top at times but DAO is almost unplayable to me now. do what happened between ME2 and ME3 keep the general style just make improvements not overhauls. I don't like exploding enemies though. i thought that was stupid. Finishing kills could be brought back though those were cool.

Alot of people prefer DA:O, so for them it would be great to see it back in DA3 in some way. I don't think DA:O' combat was 'unique' in it's own way. There were many games that did the same. It had it's flaws, but overall it was much more 'realistic' than DA2.

People don't want to see the over the top animations, the rogue jumping through the field, the exploding bodies, the buttion mashing, the feather-greatswords. Those are mechanics that do not belong in the DA universe.
And why is DA:O unplayable for you? Because of DA2? Thus, isn't a mixture the perfect solution to that? 

[Kail Ashton]

Just refine what you started with DA2, add some much needed new weapon styles and get a combo system that does more then just works off staus effects

Try studying chrono trigger & cross, I mean for flibity giblets sake chrono trigger has a better combat/combo/stratergy system AND THAT'S A 16-BIT SNES RPG! how do you not manage to compete with a 20+ year old 16-bit era game?? (and CT is visually better then origins by a long shot >__>)

[Reidbynature]

Get rid of tapping X to make it feel 'actiony'. That felt quite forced pretty quickly in DA2. Also, get rid of the Mage's combat animations from DA2. If I choose to play as a mage it's because I want to play as a mage, not a Kung Fu Mystic.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Coachdongwiffle wrote...

I'm a little saddened by this thread. Everyone wants a mix.

To be fair, some of us just want DAO.

[Dasher1010]

Lower cooldowns, especially for healing spells/potions. The cooldowns in DA2 were just too long and mages are supposed to be power spammers.

[Silverfox4]

The basic mage staff attacks are awesome in DA2 and I like the faster swings of the two handed swords. But I enjoyed DAO's combat more.

[Iosev]

Here are some of the general things that I would like to be applied to DA:I:

1. Retain the responsiveness of combat in DA 2 (particularly for melee-oriented characters).
2. Scale back the "flashiness" a bit (i.e., less over-the-top animations).
3. Improve class synergy (I think cross-class combinations were nice, but there must be more ways to improve the synergy).

The most important change that I personally want to see is a refinement of the different difficulty settings. Specifically, instead of having four of five different settings with gradual differences, just focus on three: Casual, Normal (default), and Nightmare. Casual would be for players new to RPGs, or simply players interested in story over combat. Normal would be closer to what the Hard difficulty is, except with some form of friendly fire, so that the majority of players are encouraged to learn all of the gameplay mechanics, like crowd control, resistances, cross-class combinations, and so on. The Nightmare difficulty should be for the players who enjoy challenging encounters, with the setting requiring a tremendous amount of strategy to beat an encounter.

I liked that the normal setting in DA:O had some form of friendly fire, but if I recally correctly, it was only in the PC version.

The reason why I want something like this is because I think the normal settings in the previous games have been far too easy, resulting in far too many players complaining that you could get through games without a tactical approach, because let's face it, you could. In general, I think the best way to make people appreciate the mechanics and tactics of gameplay is to make the default difficulty level challenging enough to encourage learning of the system.

Modifié par arcelonious, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:14 .

[DragonRacer]

I know I'll be in the minority, but I really liked the DA2 combat system. Not so much the exploding enemies and spawns dropping randomly from the sky or poofing into sudden existence from, I suppose, an alternate dimension of some sort, but I liked the fast-paced style. In particular, the mage combat, which I felt was a 100% improvement over DA:O's poor mages. I literally cannot complete a mage playthrough on DA:O because standing back and pew.... wait for it... pew.... wait for it.... pew of spell-casting was just dreadful.

If anything, don't go back to something as slow as DA:O was. Please.

I do, however, echo the cry for finishing moves to return.

Also, I have to disagree with the poster a few steps up who felt DA2's style of combat took away from a party feel. I am someone who actually has NEVER made use of the pause/issue-orders wheel. I much prefer to set up my party members' tactics and trust them to "watch my back" and "do their job" on their own in combat. Feels like more of a team fighting by my side, rather than me micro-managing their actions like pawns on a chessboard. But I do understand that is a personal preference and others will feel differently. I think it's great that there are options for both styles of gameplay, frankly.

[obZen DF]

arcelonious wrote...

Here are some of the general things that I would like to be applied to DA:I:

1. Retain the responsiveness of combat in DA 2 (particularly for melee-oriented characters).
2. Scale back the "flashiness" a bit (i.e., less over-the-top animations).
3. Improve class synergy (I think cross-class combinations were nice, but there must be more ways to improve the synergy).

The most important change that I personally want to see is a refinement of the different difficulty settings. Specifically, instead of having four of five different settings with gradual differences, just focus on three: Casual, Normal (default), and Nightmare. Casual would be for players new to RPGs, or simply players interested in story over combat. Normal would be closer to what the Hard difficulty is, except with some form of friendly fire, so that the majority of players are encouraged to learn all of the gameplay mechanics, like crowd control, resistances, cross-class combinations, and so on. The Nightmare difficulty should be for the players who enjoy challenging encounters, with the setting requiring a tremendous amount of strategy to beat an encounter.

I liked that the normal setting in DA:O had some form of friendly fire, but if I recally correctly, it was only in the PC version.

The reason why I want something like this is because I think the normal settings in the previous games have been far too easy, resulting in far too many players complaining that you could get through games without a tactical approach, because let's face it, you could. In general, I think the best way to make people appreciate the mechanics and tactics of gameplay is to make the default difficulty level challenging enough to encourage learning of the system.

You're absolutely right. DA2 on Nightmare was pretty challenging, especially with all the waves of enemies dropping from the sky. But then on Normal, it's waaayyy to easy. The jump from higher difficulties to lower should be a little more balanced.