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Flamer mechanics explained

Débuté par peddroelm , sept. 17 2012 10:34

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69 réponses à ce sujet

#1
peddroelm
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 10:34

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- has similar stack mechanics to incendiary ammo - however stacked damage will be ~ correct and not bug out like incendiary ammo stacks .. )
- THIS MEANS MOST FLAMER DAMAGE WILL BE APPLIED AFTER YOU STOP FIRING IT, AS DOT WITH 5 SECONDS DURATION
- incendiary ammo DOT can feed off flamer DOT - but extra BUG damage does not seem so extreme (like warp+ incendiary interaction)
- no weird interaction between warp & flamer
- warp + flamer + incendiary test = incendiary fed of warp (must taste
better :P) and left flamer stack by itself
- when specced for extra armor DOT with consumable  it can apply in excess off 3k Damage to armor per second .. (will take 5 seconds to inflict most of  the damage after you stop firing) ..


==================================
Lets Name This: 200 * (1+sum power bonuses) = K

Impact damage is
3*(K/8)*Resistance_Damage_Multiplier

DOT component 10 damage ticks over 5 second duration
(K/8)*Resistance_Damage_Multiplier

So total damage is (13/8)*K*Resistance_Damage_Multiplier [/b]

///////////////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////////////////

Example :

1 point flamer - no power bonuses

K= 200 *(1+0)
K/8 =25

1 stack vs health

200 DPS flamer vs health

start 75.000000
464 25.000000
446 25.000000
476 25.000000
456 25.000000
472 25.000000
467 25.000000
462 25.000000
467 25.000000
481 25.000000
458 25.000000

200 dps flamer vs armor (*1.5)

Start 112.500000
464 37.500000
464 37.500000
453 37.500000
471 37.500000
467 37.500000
457 37.500000
478 37.500000
468 37.500000
464 37.500000
450 37.500000


///////////////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////////////////

vs armor (with extra 50% damage vs armor evolution)


K/8= (200 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.1 + 0.4)) / 8 = 42.5
vs armor (K/8)*1.5 * 1.5 = 95.625

Start 286.875000
455 95.625000
467 95.625000
465 95.625000
467 95.625000
469 95.625000
454 95.625000
467 95.625000
465 95.625000
468 95.625000

/////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////

Flamer vs armor 1 stack

Power Amplifier Module IV 50% PD
Mental Focuser I 4% PD
10% PD from passive

Damage Received: 378.000000
Damage Received: 126.000000
Damage Received: 126.000000
Damage Received: 126.000000
Damage Received: 126.000000
Damage Received: 126.000000
Damage Received: 126.000000
Damage Received: 126.000000
Damage Received: 126.000000
Damage Received: 126.000000
Damage Received: 126.000000

((200 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.1 + 0.4 + 0.5 + 0.04)) / 8) * 1.5 * 1.5 = 126


/////////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////////////


Weird stacking mechanics

flamer 4 stacks


Damage Received: 378.000000 // 1 impact
Damage Received: 126.000000 /dot
Damage Received: 378.000000 // 2 impact
Damage Received: 239.202637 //2 stacked dot
Damage Received: 378.000000 //3 impact
Damage Received: 340.542969 //3 stacked dot
Damage Received: 378.000000 // 4 impact
Damage Received: 431.636230 //4 stack dot final 10 ticks
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230

Expected 126 * 13 * 4 = 6552

Inflicted 378 * 4 + 126 + 239.202637 + 340.542969 + (431.63623 * 10) = 6534.10791 // less but close

//////////////////////////
//////////////////////////

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/////////////////////////
//////////////////////////

flamer 10 stacks

Damage Received: 378.000000 //1
Damage Received: 378.000000 //2
Damage Received: 239.741699
Damage Received: 378.000000 //3
Damage Received: 341.601563
Damage Received: 378.000000 //4
Damage Received: 433.253906
Damage Received: 378.000000 //5
Damage Received: 515.914063
Damage Received: 378.000000 //6
Damage Received: 589.941406
Damage Received: 378.000000 //7
Damage Received: 656.790039
Damage Received: 656.790039
Damage Received: 378.000000 //8
Damage Received: 716.765625
Damage Received: 378.000000 //9
Damage Received: 770.712402
Damage Received: 378.000000 //10
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055


Expected damage 126 * 13 * 10 = 16380

Measured (stacked) (378 * 10) + 239.741699 + 341.601563 + 433.253906 + 515.914063 + 589.941406 + (656.790039 * 2) + 716.765625 + 770.712402 + (819.081055 * 10) = 16892.3213 // a bit more this time but again close

////////////////////////
////////////////////////
////////////////////////

Paladin IV shot

Damage Received: 674.972656 // 460.3 * (1 + 0.275 + 0.25 + 0.05)) - 50 = 674.9725
Damage Received: 23.015137 //
Damage Received: 23.015137
Damage Received: 23.015137
Damage Received: 23.015137
Damage Received: 23.015137
Damage Received: 23.015137

Had 5% WD damage from blood lust all the time (haven't killed anything for ages ...)

(460.3 * 0.3) / 6 = 23.015 OK incendiary III dot ticks


/////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////
//////////////////////////

4 flamer stacks + 3 paladin shots


Damage Received: 378.000000 // 1 flamer
Damage Received: 378.000000 // 2 flamer
Damage Received: 239.621094
Damage Received: 239.621094
Damage Received: 378.000000 //3 flamer
Damage Received: 340.944336
Damage Received: 378.000000 //4 flamer
Damage Received: 432.734863
Damage Received: 674.972656 //1 paladin
Damage Received: 763.272461
Damage Received: 674.972656 //2 paladin
Damage Received: 751.921875 //incendiary dot tick
Damage Received: 751.921875
Damage Received: 674.972656 //3 paladin
Damage Received: 757.424316 //last 6 incendary dot ticks
Damage Received: 757.424316
Damage Received: 757.424316
Damage Received: 757.424316
Damage Received: 757.424316
Damage Received: 757.424316

ONLY 6 DOT TICKS (incendiary ammo) NOT (8 flamer)

FUNNY BUSINESS

Expected Damge = (126 * 13 * 4) + (674.972656 * (3 + 0.9)) = 9184.39336

(378 * 4) + (674.972656 * 3) + (239.621094 * 2) + 340.944336 + 432.734863 + 763.272461 + (751.921875 * 2) + (757.424316 * 6) = 11601.5015 Inflicted Damage
// buggy extra damage


///////////////////////////
///////////////////////////
///////////////////////////

warp + flamer

Damage Received: 478.125000 //Warp impact
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 9.164063 //20 warp dot ticks
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 378.000000
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 378.000000
Damage Received: 239.669922
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 239.669922
Damage Received: 378.000000
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 340.975586
Damage Received: 378.000000
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 432.340332
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 432.340332
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 432.340332
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 432.340332
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 432.340332
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 432.340332
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 432.340332
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 432.340332
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 432.340332
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 432.340332 //10 flamer dot ticks
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 9.164063
Damage Received: 9.164063

No interaction (not even bonus debuff damage)


////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////


warp + 5 flamer + 3 * paladin incendiary ammo

Damage Received: 478.125000 //warp impact
Damage Received: 9.164063 //1 normal warp dot
Damage Received: 9.164063 //2
Damage Received: 9.164063 //3
Damage Received: 9.164063//4
Damage Received: 9.164063 //5
Damage Received: 378.000000 //1 flamer impact
Damage Received: 9.164063 //6
Damage Received: 378.000000 //2 flamer
Damage Received: 239.806641 //flamer dot
Damage Received: 9.164063 //7
Damage Received: 378.000000 //3 flamer
Damage Received: 341.236328 //flamer dot
Damage Received: 9.164063 //8
Damage Received: 341.236328 //flamer dot
Damage Received: 378.000000 //4 flamer
Damage Received: 9.164063 //9
Damage Received: 431.708496 //flamer dot
Damage Received: 378.000000 //5 flamer
Damage Received: 796.218262 // 1 st paladin incendiary
Damage Received: 134.484863
Damage Received: 513.848145 // 10 FLAMER DOT TICKS
Damage Received: 134.484863
Damage Received: 513.848145
Damage Received: 796.218262 // second paladin incendiary
Damage Received: 217.000977
Damage Received: 513.848145
Damage Received: 796.218262 // third paladin incediary
Damage Received: 289.946289 //// 6 incediary dot ticks
Damage Received: 513.848145
Damage Received: 289.946289
Damage Received: 513.848145
Damage Received: 289.946289
Damage Received: 513.848145
Damage Received: 289.946289
Damage Received: 513.848145
Damage Received: 289.946289
Damage Received: 513.848145
Damage Received: 289.946289 // 6 incediary dot ticks
Damage Received: 513.848145
Damage Received: 513.848145


In this case incendiary fed of warp and left flamer do its thing

Modifié par peddroelmz, 01 octobre 2012 - 06:12 .

#2
NucularPikinic
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 10:36

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SCIENCE!

#3
Epique Phael767
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 10:38

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Seriously, who had enough time to do all this? Most of BSN won't care one way or another.

#4
Astreon
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 10:39

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Maybe not tied to mechanics, but does anyone else find that the Flamer often is heard at 100% volume no matter where the user is on the map? Quite an annoying glitch...

#5
Rifneno
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 10:39

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Hmm. I was expecting a post about how to make a deeply hurtful post. Oh well.

#6
BlackbirdSR-71C
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 10:43

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Thanks for putting so much work into clarifying mechanics! We really need a collection of all the conclusions, basically summarizing everything you need to know about powers/weapons.

#7
Moonstryder
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 10:50

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So some questions....

1) Taking Flamer 5B duration, does it only increase how long you cast Flamer and not the duration an enemy is burning?

2) Evolution 6A Armor Damage, Is it Multiplicative or Additive? So the innate +50% to Armor wont become +100% to armor if chosen?

#8
jakenou
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 10:56

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NucularPikinic wrote...

SCIENCE!


I am blinded by it :blink:

#9
RamsenC
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 11:02

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So fire ammo reegar while flaming is the key?

#10
TMB903
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 11:14

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Your game mechanic threads are greatly appreciated(at least to me they are)

#11
Denali21
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 11:25

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BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

Thanks for putting so much work into clarifying mechanics! We really need a collection of all the conclusions, basically summarizing everything you need to know about powers/weapons.


^ This

The numbers are nice but way over most peoples head.

#12
ParthianShotX
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 11:30

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. . . looking for the emoticon with the glazed over eyes . . . I can't believe there isn't one!

#13
DHKany
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 11:31

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MY EEEEEEEEEEYEEEEEEEEEEEES.

#14
Kalas Magnus
Posté 18 septembre 2012 - 12:17

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thnx for the info

#15
RoZh2400
Posté 18 septembre 2012 - 12:31

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Moonstryder wrote...

So some questions....

1) Taking Flamer 5B duration, does it only increase how long you cast Flamer and not the duration an enemy is burning?

2) Evolution 6A Armor Damage, Is it Multiplicative or Additive? So the innate +50% to Armor wont become +100% to armor if chosen?


Duration does not inculde burning time. That stuff is always 5 seconds.

The armor damage evo is multiplicative, confirmed by RedJohn GodlessPaladin mechanics IIRC. The innate +50% becomes +125% bonus vs. armor, which means you do 2.25x damage against armor with the evolution.
The vs. shield evo is also multiplicative, so it's damage+all bonuses, and THEN multiplied by 50% vs. shields.

:)

Modifié par RoZh2400, 18 septembre 2012 - 12:31 .

#16
vironblood
Posté 18 septembre 2012 - 12:52

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RoZh2400 wrote...

Moonstryder wrote...

So some questions....

1) Taking Flamer 5B duration, does it only increase how long you cast Flamer and not the duration an enemy is burning?

2) Evolution 6A Armor Damage, Is it Multiplicative or Additive? So the innate +50% to Armor wont become +100% to armor if chosen?


Duration does not inculde burning time. That stuff is always 5 seconds.

The armor damage evo is multiplicative, confirmed by RedJohn GodlessPaladin mechanics IIRC. The innate +50% becomes +125% bonus vs. armor, which means you do 2.25x damage against armor with the evolution.
The vs. shield evo is also multiplicative, so it's damage+all bonuses, and THEN multiplied by 50% vs. shields.

:)


It is clearly a multiplicative bonus:

peddroelmz wrote...
...
K/8= (200 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.1 + 0.4)) / 8 = 42.5
vs armor (K/8)*1.5 * 1.5 = 95.625

Start 286.875000
455 95.625000
...


#17
peddroelm
Posté 18 septembre 2012 - 04:07

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RamsenC wrote...

So fire ammo reegar while flaming is the key?

 

That seems a bit overkill (double exploit) :lol: ...

#18
kil_edward93
Posté 18 septembre 2012 - 04:16

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Image IPB

#19
Pyth the Bull
Posté 18 septembre 2012 - 04:19

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I believe that the Flamer is actually powered by the "What, what in the butt?" song, which is directly connected to the Vorcha's iPod.

#20
born2beagator
Posté 18 septembre 2012 - 04:24

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Numbers!

#21
genomandril
Posté 18 septembre 2012 - 10:16

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Epique Phael767 wrote...

Seriously, who had enough time to do all this? Most of BSN won't care one way or another.


You are wrong.  Thanks, Pedro ;)

#22
rlro
Posté 18 septembre 2012 - 01:18

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Pedro, great work (as always).

I've got just one question: which evolution 5 of the flamer produces the absolute largest damage (after all DoT is applied) - Increase damage by 40% or Increase duration by 60% ?

I always chose increase duration by 60% because I thought it would produce more damage, but after reading your post where you say "MOST FLAMER DAMAGE WILL BE APPLIED AFTER YOU STOP FIRING IT" I became confused.

Can you clarify that point?

#23
tictactucrac
Posté 18 septembre 2012 - 01:20

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OP, i can't understand anyone of your threads. Do you speak human ?

#24
tictactucrac
Posté 18 septembre 2012 - 01:22

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rlro wrote...

Pedro, great work (as always).

I've got just one question: which evolution 5 of the flamer produces the absolute largest damage (after all DoT is applied) - Increase damage by 40% or Increase duration by 60% ?

I always chose increase duration by 60% because I thought it would produce more damage, but after reading your post where you say "MOST FLAMER DAMAGE WILL BE APPLIED AFTER YOU STOP FIRING IT" I became confused.

Can you clarify that point?



You're doing it wrong, even with less damage, +40% damage is faaaar better.

you will NEVER in gold/platinum have enough free time to stand up 8sec in front of enemies.

#25
ryoldschool
Posté 18 septembre 2012 - 01:27

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Genogryph wrote...

Epique Phael767 wrote...

Seriously, who had enough time to do all this? Most of BSN won't care one way or another.


You are wrong.  Thanks, Pedro ;)


^ yes, a lot of us do care.  However, you should change your avatar to Mordin:wizard:
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