57 réponses à ce sujet

[The Twilight God]

batlin wrote...

 I've been burned far too often by recent Bioware games. I bought DA2 day 1 because I loved DA:O. I bought TOR day 1 because I thought DA2 was just a fluke, and that TOR was being worked on by different people would make a difference. It did not. Because of these disappointments I decided to wait until some (user) reviews were up before buying ME3, and decision wound up saving me $60. Clearly, I had made the right decision by only giving the game a rent.

So I don't know about the rest of you, but I cannot just assume greatness from the DA franchise now. Dont take this thread as a knock on the game or Bioware; I want the game to be great. I want a game as great or better than DA:O. But history has shown me three times over that greatness is not a guarantee, unfortunately. So like I did with ME3 I'll be waiting for some players' reviews for this game before getting it.

If they have free day-1 DLC I definitely won't buy at any point. They no longer have the credibility for me to make a day-1 purchase and I'm not paying extra for cut content after release nor will I but a incomplete game at full price. Actually, anything requiring Origin is a no-go at this point.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 18 septembre 2012 - 02:16 .

[The Hierophant]

TJPags wrote...

hitorihanzo wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

I'm pretty positive it will be better than DA2.

Based on what? Their track record? The fact that BW listens so well?

Based on . . can it really be worse?

Final Fantasy 7 : Dirge of Cerberus?

[Ghost]

Vandicus wrote...

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

hitorihanzo wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

I'm pretty positive it will be better than DA2.

Based on what? Their track record? The fact that BW listens so well?

Longer Dev cycle.

We dont even know when its out.

Dragon Age 2 released less than a year after Dragon Age Awakening. DA3 has already been in development longer than DA2.

This is what I mean.

[batlin]

Vandicus wrote...

I'm curious as to why you've got a particular dislike for Origin. To me besides functionality its the same as Impulse or Steam(although I think Steam is the most functional of the three). I did find it extraordinarly convenient that Origin allows me to keep all my save files when I upgraded to a new computer.

If you don't like running a program constantly you can set it not to run on start up. Having to DL a Steam-type program is enough for you to decide whether or not to buy a game? 

I engaged in a bit of hyperbole, but having to use Origins to play any game is a hassle. For TOR it took a week for EA's customer service to get it through their heads that the email I used was in fact my correct email.

Let's just say that if I'm on the fence about DA3, having to use Origins in order to play it will make the decision whether to buy the game easy.

Modifié par batlin, 18 septembre 2012 - 02:20 .

[batlin]

Ghost1017 wrote...

hitorihanzo wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

I'm pretty positive it will be better than DA2.

Based on what? Their track record? The fact that BW listens so well?

Longer Dev cycle.

That's not reason enough to believe it will be better. Horrible games have had longer than 3 years of development and amazing games have had less.

[Vandicus]

batlin wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

hitorihanzo wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

I'm pretty positive it will be better than DA2.

Based on what? Their track record? The fact that BW listens so well?

Longer Dev cycle.

That's not reason enough to believe it will be better. Horrible games have had longer than 3 years of development and amazing games have had less.

Given that a lot of the same people are making it, it certainly improves the chances. Two completely different groups and there'd be no way to correlate development time and quality, but a lot of these guys developed DA:O, DA:A, and DA 2.

Anyways, it seems a bit silly to me to base a game purchasing decision on something unrelated to the actual game itself. Heck, even if a developer has a lousy history it doesn't mean that if they produce a great game that the great game should be ignored. What if George Lucas had made episodes I, II, and III of Star Wars before IV, V, and VI? People who hate the prequel trilogy nowadays would've missed out on the awesomeness of the original trilogy based on a decision which is unrelated to each individual movie.

In other words, if I were you I'd buy or not buy the game on its own merit. 

But those are just my thoughts on the matter. 

[Ghost]

batlin wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

hitorihanzo wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

I'm pretty positive it will be better than DA2.

Based on what? Their track record? The fact that BW listens so well?

Longer Dev cycle.

That's not reason enough to believe it will be better. Horrible games have had longer than 3 years of development and amazing games have had less.

True but we all know DA2 was a rush job.

Good ex for game with long cycle:DNF

[batlin]

Ghost1017 wrote...

True but we all know DA2 was a rush job.

TOR and ME3 weren't rush jobs.

And even if it were a fact that a longer dev cycle = a better game, being better than DA2 isn't much of an accomplishment.

[Realmzmaster]

I will be pre-ordering the game. I liked DAO and DA2. I liked the DLC for DA2. As soon as pre-order is available I will place my order. Everyone else, YMMV.

[EssEeeEcks]

lx_theo wrote...

K, wait for the reviews then.

We'll keep on plugging away here trying to give feedback and ideas to make this the best game for as many of us as possible.

after 2 years of development how much do you think is gonna get in?

[Ghost]

batlin wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

True but we all know DA2 was a rush job.

TOR and ME3 weren't rush jobs.

And even if it were a fact that a longer dev cycle = a better game, being better than DA2 isn't much of an accomplishment.

True. Also, I am on the same boat as you for DA3.

[Vandicus]

batlin wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

True but we all know DA2 was a rush job.

TOR and ME3 weren't rush jobs.

And even if it were a fact that a longer dev cycle = a better game, being better than DA2 isn't much of an accomplishment.

TOR is the second most subscribed MMO in the world and ME3 sold far better than ME2 in its launch month, even though ME3 launched at a time where sales for rpgs were doing poorly.

You at least have some sort've argument with DA2 vs DA:O in that DA:O did better in initial sales, though DA2 also released during a slump time for rpgs. 

To claim poor quality is clearly a matter of your own opinion rather than one of general reception in both these cases.

[batlin]

Vandicus wrote...

TOR is the second most subscribed MMO in the world

I think you mean "was the second most subscibed MMO in the world"

and ME3 sold far better than ME2 in its launch month, even though ME3 launched at a time where sales for rpgs were doing poorly.

You at least have some sort've argument with DA2 vs DA:O in that DA:O did better in initial sales, though DA2 also released during a slump time for rpgs.

Actually DA2 had better initial sales than DA:o, but sales slumped after people realized how bad it was. So in the end DA:O sold more copies. 

See, the reason for high initial sales followed by horrible following sales is because the game's popularity was spurred by the quality of the previous game. After a game's quality becomes common knowlegde, as was the case of DA2 and ME3, sales fall like rocks.

To claim poor quality is clearly a matter of your own opinion rather than one of general reception in both these cases.

Yeah, it's my opinion, but it's an opinion that's shared by a huge amount of people. You can disagree all you want, but I know what I like and I won't be buying this game blind.

Modifié par batlin, 18 septembre 2012 - 03:06 .

[Vandicus]

batlin wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

TOR is the second most subscribed MMO in the world

I think you mean "was the second most subscibed MMO in the world"

and ME3 sold far better than ME2 in its launch month, even though ME3 launched at a time where sales for rpgs were doing poorly.

You at least have some sort've argument with DA2 vs DA:O in that DA:O did better in initial sales, though DA2 also released during a slump time for rpgs.

Actually DA2 had better initial sales than DA:o, but sales slumped after people realized how bad it was. So in the end DA:O sold more copies. 

See, the reason for high initial sales followed by horrible following sales is because the game's popularity was spurred by the quality of the previous game. After a game's quality becomes common knowlegde, as was the case of DA2 and ME3, sales fall like rocks.

To claim poor quality is clearly a matter of your own opinion rather than one of general reception in both these cases.

Yeah, it's my opinion, but it's an opinion that's shared by a huge amount of people. You can disagree all you want, but I know what I like and I won't be buying this game blind.

No I mean IS the second most subscribed. 

Not sure where you're getting your facts bro,

http://greywardens.c....-DA2-sales.png 

First month DA:O sales were better than DA2. 

http://greywardens.c...ly-did-it-sell/ 

Interestingly the divide seems to be largely due to console gamers. PC users bought DA2 about as much as DA:O but console users didn't buy it nearly as much. 

Lots of opinions are shared by lots of people, there's lots of people in the world to have a shared opinion with. My point is that the reception for both TOR and ME3 have had a positive track record as compared to the previous title in the series sales wise, rather than a negative one. Its not exactly appropriate to tout them as "unsuccessful games" even in the relative sense. 

Also I'm not sure where I suggested you buy the game blind, though I can point to where I advised you to buy or not buy the game on its own merits rather than based on previous games or downloading Origin.

[Brockololly]

batlin wrote...

Oh, and if this game is Origin-exclusive that might be the final nail in the coffin right there. DA3 would have to really impress me to reinstall that garbage.

I'll spare you the wait- it will be Origin exclusive. Or at the very least won't be anywhere near Steam.

[batlin]

Vandicus wrote...

No I mean IS the second most subscribed. 

Not sure where you're getting your facts bro,

http://greywardens.c....-DA2-sales.png 

First month DA:O sales were better than DA2. 

http://greywardens.c...ly-did-it-sell/ 

Interestingly the divide seems to be largely due to console gamers. PC users bought DA2 about as much as DA:O but console users didn't buy it nearly as much. 

Lots of opinions are shared by lots of people, there's lots of people in the world to have a shared opinion with. My point is that the reception for both TOR and ME3 have had a positive track record as compared to the previous title in the series sales wise, rather than a negative one. Its not exactly appropriate to tout them as "unsuccessful games" even in the relative sense.

You said initial sales. After a week, a game's quality becomes well-known. That's why I'd consider week 1 sales to be thanks to the previous game's quality rather than the game's quality itself.

Also I'm not sure where I suggested you buy the game blind, though I can point to where I advised you to buy or not buy the game on its own merits rather than based on previous games or downloading Origin.

That I agree with. But Origin is indeed a huge con.

[TheBlackBaron]

A perfectly logical stance. Personally I rarely pre-order games to begin with, and got burned on that with DA2 (and no, for the record, I don't think I was burned by getting the Collector's Editions for ME2 and ME3). So it's no great leap to not do it with DA3.

[Hatchetman77]

Vandicus wrote...

TOR is the second most subscribed MMO in the world and ME3 sold far better than ME2 in its launch month, even though ME3 launched at a time where sales for rpgs were doing poorly.

When's TOR scheduled to go F2P again?

[Mathias]

DA3 is basically Bioware's saving throw. Regardless this won't be a day 1 buy for me, no way no how. There's a chance i could change my mind on that, but that's really only gonna be through spoilers and what i think of them when the game is nearing release.

[bleetman]

Hatchetman77 wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

TOR is the second most subscribed MMO in the world and ME3 sold far better than ME2 in its launch month, even though ME3 launched at a time where sales for rpgs were doing poorly.

When's TOR scheduled to go F2P again?

About a month.



They're also doing their second round of server merges in four months tommorrow to keep the populations up. Successful release is successful.

Modifié par bleetman, 18 septembre 2012 - 03:55 .

[Korusus]

Vandicus wrote...


Interestingly the divide seems to be largely due to console gamers. PC users bought DA2 about as much as DA:O but console users didn't buy it nearly as much. .

I bet if you were to add digital sales which aren't tracked by any third party groups and are rarely reported you would see that curve begin to more closely resemble the consoles in regards to DA:O sales vs. DA2. 

Modifié par Korusus, 18 septembre 2012 - 03:55 .

[SafetyShattered]

I'm proud of you for having impulse control. I, on the otherhand, do not. Which means I'm totally going to buy it day 1.

[Allan Schumacher]

I'm willing to let this thread slide in light of recent mudslinging, as the point in the OP is perfectly fine and valid. And it's on BioWare to prove him wrong when we ship. Frankly I personally encourage responsible purchasing, even if it will affect me financially

Having said that, I'd rather not turn this into a mudslinging match between some sort of objective "was DAO/DA2 better than the other" and so on.

To use the OP, batlin clearly feels it wasn't (and neither was ME3 or TOR). Others can come in and agree, but this thread goes no where if the discussion devolves down into bickering over how one other person is wrong about gauging the success of the game.


EDIT:  Note that I'll be deleting future posts that are just blatantly snide.  This won't be a thread where you can come in a post a glib remark.  If you wish to share your perspective about how your trust in BioWare is shaken, do so in a way that doesn't make me grate my teeth.  I am getting my bottom set of braces put on this Friday and I'd like to not have to get an entire new mold done when it's not necessary!

If you want an example for what's appropriate, see the OP's post.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:13 .

[TEWR]

Chances are I'll end up waiting for reviews as well, due to a combination of the following:

1) Financial concerns
2) My dislike -- really, intense hatred -- of how DAII handled a conceptually sound idea.
3) What may be revealed in the future may end up making me go... well... I don't have an image of the guy, but he's got his head tilted back, teeth are showing, and red eyes I think. All with a black background.