366 réponses à ce sujet

[Boss Fog]

BrotherWarth wrote...

They should look like this.

I dunno, some people might consider that a human with pointy ears and green eyes.

[Wrathion]

TelvanniWarlord wrote...



I dunno, some people might consider that a human with pointy ears and green eyes.

[Boss Fog]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...



I'll say it only once more; I said elves are humanoid when people started accusing me of wanting them to look like humans with pointy ears.  Obviously the DA2 elves are humanoid; and again I never said they weren't.  In addition to being humanoid, I find themt unnattractive and not what I would imagine a race which humans find beautiful looks like.  

I posted those pictures because I like the way they look and I believe if Bioware could match that with a few tweaks, the elves would actually be worthy of their description.  You'll also notice I posted pictures of vanilla DA:O elves whom I also find to be incredibly unattractive.  I want a middle ground; not either or.

I never said that YOU said they weren't. I just saying that you CAN'T use "all elves are humanoid" as a reason why they shouldn't look like they do in DA2. Because they ARE humanoid and that doesn't really make any sense.

You mean you can't imagine why Fantasy humans, in a fantasy world, would find a fantasy race, that also lives in this fantasy world, as attractive as they do because you yourself don't find them attractive?

The elves you do find attractive (presumably the bottom one) are modded...so...
DA2 elves are unrealistic, because one guy said that all humans think every single elf in Thedas is beautiful. But smooth, styled hair, and unblemished skin...aren't...

So I'm the only one in this thread who has expressed their displeasure with the current state of DA elves?  From my view, saying that those elves look like humans with pointy ears is over generalizing.  The differences are subtle, but it's enough for me to tell the difference.  But maybe that's because I actually pay attention to detail and don't require them to look like animals in order for me to tell the difference.

As others have said and I have said before; I wouldn't have such a problem if they actually looked like their concept art counter part.  But instead we get gangly bodies, oversized eyes, and weak, undefined chins.  I actually don't mind the lack of nose bridge because I consider that to be a staple elven feature in many other forms of lore.

[Boss Fog]

BrotherWarth wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

I dunno, some people might consider that a human with pointy ears and green eyes.

What's the threshold? Pointy ears, big eyes and weird nose bridges is different enough but pointy ears and glowing green eyes isn't?

I was being sarcastic.  I think that picture looks cool TBH.

[CELL55]

Conduit0 wrote...

CELL55 wrote...

I find it hard to tell sometimes whether it was intended or not, and to what extent, given the terrible graphical quality I experienced on my 360. If they are going to be romance interests, then it logically follows that they should fall within acceptable standards of "beauty". No matter how great their personality, I find it really hard to justify my character trying to romance a goblinoid alien.

Sometimes the elves in DA2 seemed fine, other times horrifying, but never really great, IMO.

"They're not pretty enough" is an incredibly weak argument. There is no rule that says a fantasy race needs to be attractive. Look at dwarves, they fall outside the usual standard of beauty and yet there was a sizable group of people that wanted a dwarf LI for DA2. Or look at the ME series, Turians are about as far removed from the standards of human beauty as a humanoid race can get and yet there are legions of Garrus fangirls(and boys) that would jump him like a rabbit in heat given the chance.

In other words, saying that the DA2 elf design is bad because they aren't attractive is a completely invalid argument since everyone has different standards of beauty, and there were most certainly large numbers of people who found Merril and Fenris more than attractive enough to justify romancing those characters.

No, no, no, no, no. I mean, IMO, that IN GENERAL, if there are going to be romanceable characters of a nonhuman race, than that race has to have some sort of allure. IMO (AGAIN!) the DA2 elves were too close to humans to be judged by nonhuman standards, as one could do with, say, turians.

I was very specific in my statement that I, PERSONALLY, did not much care for the DA2 elf look. I am well aware that others did and that is fine. (IMO, again!)

[Rockpopple]

They'll probably end up changing the elves a bit. They won't go back to the DA1 look of "pointy-eared humans". Again, distinction is important/generic kills. So they won't go back to generic elves of the 1st game, but they'll definitely change the elves again. Consider them a work in progress.

[wildannie]

In general, I thought the DA2 elves looked awful and this bothered me as I'm sure the lore states that elves are generally attractive. Of course there were exceptions - Fenris and Orsino.

I loved the design of Iorveth in TW2.

[Wrathion]

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

So I'm the only one in this thread who has expressed their displeasure with the current state of DA elves?  From my view, saying that those elves look like humans with pointy ears is over generalizing.  The differences are subtle, but it's enough for me to tell the difference.  But maybe that's because I actually pay attention to detail and don't require them to look like animals in order for me to tell the difference.

As others have said and I have said before; I wouldn't have such a problem if they actually looked like their concept art counter part.  But instead we get gangly bodies, oversized eyes, and weak, undefined chins.  I actually don't mind the lack of nose bridge because I consider that to be a staple elven feature in many other forms of lore.

Obviously not, as I was talking to people before you said anything so...
Origins elves look like humans with pointy ears. If you want elves to look like Origins elves again you want them to look like pointy eared humans...
What differences are these? The only way I can tell an elf apart from a human in Origins was their height, their ears and that weird crease they had under their mouth that I couldn't get rid of even in the toolset. But two of those things have nothing to do with their race. 

It's impossible to make them exactly like their concept art. That didn't even work for the humans like Isabela and Anders. 
But all of these features that you dislike in DA2 elves exist in reality on real human beings. What makes them bad on the elves?

[Lurklen]

Well considering they're using a new engine the elves appearance will likely change a bit even if they decide to stick with the DA2 design. Personally I liked it, though I thought everything about the second games art style was a little cartoony and exaggerated; I believe that was the point. And I'd like it if it came a little closer to a realistic style, just a bit.

So if they were going to go for something between the two I think I'd still be happy. My problem with the DAO elves was that if they covered their ears you couldn't tell them apart from humans. This didn't seem to be the case in the Lore. So I think we'd see a lot of elves with surgically cropped ears if they looked like they did in DAO, it'd be an easy escape from racism.

[Lotion Soronarr]

BrotherWarth wrote...
Midget porn and beastiality. That's all I'm sayin'...

Indeed.....

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rockpopple wrote...

They'll probably end up changing the elves a bit. They won't go back to the DA1 look of "pointy-eared humans". Again, distinction is important/generic kills. So they won't go back to generic elves of the 1st game, but they'll definitely change the elves again. Consider them a work in progress.

A view commonly held by stupid people.

[Rockpopple]

Call me names all you want, doesn't make what I said any less true. Nobody likes generic. Even when something new comes around and gets popular, people notice when too many others start to riff on it. A style becomes generic, and it becomes old. Distinction is important.

Don't like it? Well, life is hard for everyone.

[Tommyspa]

No, they shouldn't. They should spend more time on non-critical elves though. You can't convince me that Fenris, Merrill, Marethari, Ilen, Lia, Jethann and Athenril aren't attractive in their current designs.

[FINE HERE]

Rockpopple wrote...

Call me names all you want, doesn't make what I said any less true. Nobody likes generic. Even when something new comes around and gets popular, people notice when too many others start to riff on it. A style becomes generic, and it becomes old. Distinction is important.

Don't like it? Well, life is hard for everyone.

Um, I like the classic elves and I hate the new ones. I don't care about new, I like something to look decent not 'OMG, what is that?! Kill it with fire!!" I like plain t-shirts and hate new fashions. I like classic studio-filmed movies, not new 3D giant features. I guess what I'm saying is I like generic.

[Zorinho20_CRO]

wildannie wrote...

In general, I thought the DA2 elves looked awful and this bothered me as I'm sure the lore states that elves are generally attractive. Of course there were exceptions - Fenris and Orsino.

I loved the design of Iorveth in TW2.

O yes,Iorveth was good looking badass,but they f____d up Geralt.
Back to topic,BW please change general design of the elves,they are so ugly,skinny(bulimic) and etc,although Merill and Fenris(like FF char) are pretty good.

[unbentbuzzkill]

yes god yes the elves in DA2 were downright fugly

[Rockpopple]

FINE HERE wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

Call me names all you want, doesn't make what I said any less true. Nobody likes generic. Even when something new comes around and gets popular, people notice when too many others start to riff on it. A style becomes generic, and it becomes old. Distinction is important.

Don't like it? Well, life is hard for everyone.

Um, I like the classic elves and I hate the new ones. I don't care about new, I like something to look decent not 'OMG, what is that?! Kill it with fire!!" I like plain t-shirts and hate new fashions. I like classic studio-filmed movies, not new 3D giant features. I guess what I'm saying is I like generic.

I'm happy for you?

I mean seriously, I wasn't talking about you specifically. Look at anything you want. Look at comics and cartoons for example. Artsyles get popular, they get aped, they become generic, and new artstyles that offer something different, a different take on things, become more popular. That's just how it is.

Not saying nobody appreciates the classics. I'm a big of John Byrne and John Romita, but their artwork doesn't hit the same areas of my brain as say an Olivier Coipel does. 

Of course, maybe I should have also said (even though it should go without saying) that distinction is only better than generic if it's better than generic. The DA2 elves were hit and miss. When they hit, they were far superior to the generic DA:O models. When they missed, they nailed that uncanny valley with a bullseye and were very disturbing.

It's a moot point anyway. New engine means new artstyle for everything. Things are gonna change, even if they change slightly. I'm just saying don't expect them to go back to the humans-with-ears asthetic of DA:O. Expect them to instead refine what they did with the DA2 elves. 

[Boss Fog]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

So I'm the only one in this thread who has expressed their displeasure with the current state of DA elves?  From my view, saying that those elves look like humans with pointy ears is over generalizing.  The differences are subtle, but it's enough for me to tell the difference.  But maybe that's because I actually pay attention to detail and don't require them to look like animals in order for me to tell the difference.

As others have said and I have said before; I wouldn't have such a problem if they actually looked like their concept art counter part.  But instead we get gangly bodies, oversized eyes, and weak, undefined chins.  I actually don't mind the lack of nose bridge because I consider that to be a staple elven feature in many other forms of lore.

Obviously not, as I was talking to people before you said anything so...
Origins elves look like humans with pointy ears. If you want elves to look like Origins elves again you want them to look like pointy eared humans...
What differences are these? The only way I can tell an elf apart from a human in Origins was their height, their ears and that weird crease they had under their mouth that I couldn't get rid of even in the toolset. But two of those things have nothing to do with their race. 

It's impossible to make them exactly like their concept art. That didn't even work for the humans like Isabela and Anders. 
But all of these features that you dislike in DA2 elves exist in reality on real human beings. What makes them bad on the elves?

The way you made that argument, you made it seem as if I wanted them to change because of my opinion ALONE in regards to elves being beautiful.  It's one of the reasons I want them to change, not the only reason.

Without posting more pictures and referencing them, these are differences I know.

1. Elves have different shaped eyes than humans, if you go through every elf and human preset.. none of their eyes are the same.  Human eyes tend to be more rectangular as opposed to elves which tend to be more slanted downwards toward the nose.  Not always the case but it is more common.

2. Their noses are different, same as above.  Human noses tend to be more angular and square while elves' have softer more round noses.

3. Their mouths are shaped differently.

4. Human males can have facial hair, elves apparently cannot.

According to me and I assume others, every difference I just listed makes sense within the context of the game.  You could make the argument that if these particular elves actually existed they would resemble humans but they don't.  There are differences, they may be subtle to some but I do notice them. 

Some of the features that I dislike on the elves do exist on humans however some do not; like the enlarged eyeball and iris that looks like it belongs on a cat.  The weak, undefined chin is a problem for me because only the elves have it while the humans and dwarves tend to have strong, defined jaws.  There are plenty of people I find unattractive in the real world, they however have nothing to do with this.

[wright1978]

They should tweak the DA2 design to improve it. Not a radical reversal towards Origins design though.

[Whitestrake]

No, it was nice to play a game where elves weren't just humans with pointy ears, & actually looked like a different species. DA2 had probably my favorite look for elves outof anything in recent memory.

Actually, that last bit isn't entirely true. I was a huge fan of the redesign for the elf races in Skyrim.
I'm actually quite happy with this recent trend of making elves look like a distinct race, since they are you know, a distinct race.

Modifié par Renard the Bard, 18 septembre 2012 - 07:36 .

[Wrathion]

TelvanniWarlord wrote...


The way you made that argument, you made it seem as if I wanted them to change because of my opinion ALONE in regards to elves being beautiful.  It's one of the reasons I want them to change, not the only reason.

Without posting more pictures and referencing them, these are differences I know.

1. Elves have different shaped eyes than humans, if you go through every elf and human preset.. none of their eyes are the same.  Human eyes tend to be more rectangular as opposed to elves which tend to be more slanted downwards toward the nose.  Not always the case but it is more common.

2. Their noses are different, same as above.  Human noses tend to be more angular and square while elves' have softer more round noses.

3. Their mouths are shaped differently.

4. Human males can have facial hair, elves apparently cannot.

According to me and I assume others, every difference I just listed makes sense within the context of the game.  You could make the argument that if these particular elves actually existed they would resemble humans but they don't.  There are differences, they may be subtle to some but I do notice them. 

Some of the features that I dislike on the elves do exist on humans however some do not; like the enlarged eyeball and iris that looks like it belongs on a cat.  The weak, undefined chin is a problem for me because only the elves have it while the humans and dwarves tend to have strong, defined jaws.  There are plenty of people I find unattractive in the real world, they however have nothing to do with this.

What are you other reasons then? 

 If that was enough humans would discriminate against each other. I know you've seen the human presets. They have a much greater range of features. If such small things were enough, why aren't humans raging against other humans with epicanthic folds, or dark skinned humans, or humans with thicker lips, or humans with large, round noses. It doesn't make sense if the differences are so SLIGHT for only the elves to be oppressed based on their features. 

The facial hair one wont really work because humans don't have to have facial hair. And elf could pass well enough for a beardless human. Anders' stubble doesn't make him more human that stubbleless Carver.

You don't like their jaws because humans and dwarves don't have them? Elves are not humans nor dwarves. Why would they need to share features? 

I don't see how taking features from real life people, it seen as a bad thing.  One elf can be extremely sexy, another can be passable, and another could be "holy god, kill it before it breeds!" I've seen that in DA2 elves...and I think it's great. 

Modifié par Alexandrine Delassixe, 18 septembre 2012 - 07:45 .

[Necrotron]

Dragon Age Redesigned, that's all I have to add.