366 réponses à ce sujet

[Whitestrake]

Bathaius wrote...

Dragon Age Redesigned, that's all I have to add.

So, you're trying to say that you have nothing to add?

[Kail Ashton]

Tweak it abit and give them more flattering hairstyles and should turn out allright-ish

[FINE HERE]

Actually, now that I've given it a little more thought, wouldn't the fact that they look generally like smaller humans with pointy ears add more to the injustice of the discrimination against elves? When they look like alien space monsters with forehead tumors that haven't eaten in four years, it makes sense that biggotted humans and the self-entitled nobles would look down on them for being 'ugly.' Yet if they looked nearly identical, it would seem more unfair, and more like there really are fewer differences between both races.
But look back at the first game, in the city elf origin: if you played a female city elf, a human lord would stomp into the alienage and kidnap you and your fellow female elves because you're pretty. He even says "Another lovely one" when he sees the PC. Elves are considered beautiful in the DA:O universe, why do they look so... creepy and unsettling in the DA2 universe? It's a huge step from the first one and it just seems unfair to people who loved the elves design and story.

[Atalanta]

I liked them small and awkward and maybe a bit ugly (in a cute sort of way), like baby birds ... and it does make some sense that way, lore-wise, for humans to justify the horrible bigotry against them.
Edit: That sentence is a mess, but I'm too sleepy to fix it.

Modifié par Atalanta, 18 septembre 2012 - 08:19 .

[Lasien]

*snip*

The way you made that argument, you made it seem as if I wanted them to change because of my opinion ALONE in regards to elves being beautiful.  It's one of the reasons I want them to change, not the only reason.

Without posting more pictures and referencing them, these are differences I know.

1. Elves have different shaped eyes than humans, if you go through every elf and human preset.. none of their eyes are the same.  Human eyes tend to be more rectangular as opposed to elves which tend to be more slanted downwards toward the nose.  Not always the case but it is more common.

2. Their noses are different, same as above.  Human noses tend to be more angular and square while elves' have softer more round noses.

3. Their mouths are shaped differently.

4. Human males can have facial hair, elves apparently cannot.

So.... they're asian, then? And all humans are european causasian? Because that's pretty much what you described... 

Modifié par Lasien, 18 septembre 2012 - 08:20 .

[Elanor]

YES. They should change elves apperance! I want they to look like in DA:O. They are so ugly in DA2.

[Klidi]

YES! Please no more Dobby in DA! I understand that they want disntinctive elves, but I think that's possible without making them look like an overstretched rubber - too thin, with a big head and almost no shoulders, and without big bug eyes and flat noses.
And by Andraste, give them back their shoes!

[JMSLionheart]

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

 

 
  
In my humble opinion, they should try their hardest to capture the badassery of these 2 elves; probably just wishful thinking on my part though. <_<

Those designs were from Dragon Age Origins. The people who made them are probably no longer in Bioware team. So don't expect such a quality elves in DA 3. Even if they could be inspired by the images, I am not sure if they are capable enough of making them through Frostbite 2. A potent engine with talented people behind could make it possible... The question is... they have enough time for that? (Only 2 years of development and no screenshots so far are suspicious). Last designs were for DA 2... And were just acceptable:

blog.mixamo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/3715122680577_da2_races1.jpg

[Boss Fog]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...


The way you made that argument, you made it seem as if I wanted them to change because of my opinion ALONE in regards to elves being beautiful.  It's one of the reasons I want them to change, not the only reason.

Without posting more pictures and referencing them, these are differences I know.

1. Elves have different shaped eyes than humans, if you go through every elf and human preset.. none of their eyes are the same.  Human eyes tend to be more rectangular as opposed to elves which tend to be more slanted downwards toward the nose.  Not always the case but it is more common.

2. Their noses are different, same as above.  Human noses tend to be more angular and square while elves' have softer more round noses.

3. Their mouths are shaped differently.

4. Human males can have facial hair, elves apparently cannot.

According to me and I assume others, every difference I just listed makes sense within the context of the game.  You could make the argument that if these particular elves actually existed they would resemble humans but they don't.  There are differences, they may be subtle to some but I do notice them. 

Some of the features that I dislike on the elves do exist on humans however some do not; like the enlarged eyeball and iris that looks like it belongs on a cat.  The weak, undefined chin is a problem for me because only the elves have it while the humans and dwarves tend to have strong, defined jaws.  There are plenty of people I find unattractive in the real world, they however have nothing to do with this.

What are you other reasons then? 

 If that was enough humans would discriminate against each other. I know you've seen the human presets. They have a much greater range of features. If such small things were enough, why aren't humans raging against other humans with epicanthic folds, or dark skinned humans, or humans with thicker lips, or humans with large, round noses. It doesn't make sense if the differences are so SLIGHT for only the elves to be oppressed based on their features. 

The facial hair one wont really work because humans don't have to have facial hair. And elf could pass well enough for a beardless human. Anders' stubble doesn't make him more human that stubbleless Carver.

You don't like their jaws because humans and dwarves don't have them? Elves are not humans nor dwarves. Why would they need to share features? 

I don't see how taking features from real life people, it seen as a bad thing.  One elf can be extremely sexy, another can be passable, and another could be "holy god, kill it before it breeds!" I've seen that in DA2 elves...and I think it's great. 

In DA2, Fenris mentions to someone that Danarius' guests found his appearance "intimidating."  While I suppose some may find him intimidating; I did not.  I thought he looked borderline silly.  I actually thought most if not all the elves looked borderline silly.  Honestly, the only elf in the game whose appearence I found to be satisfactory was Orsino.  So in addition to basically not finding them attractive, I find them to be too animilistic and basically silly. Take this elf for example: I find her to be fairly pretty (for a drawing), she doesn't have weird, huge eyes and she's got almost no separation between her nose and forhead which I kind of like because it's classic elven.  Although I can't really tell because of the angle, her jaw seems to be more or less not weak and undefined.  However, one thing that I hate is that every single damn elf in the game has soleless shoes; out of all the ways to differentiate them this was flat out the most retarded and needs to go.

So you assume that humans discriminate against elves only because of the way they look?  The only indication of this is because they call them "knife-ears" and even then it doesn't necessarily sum up why humans discriminate against elves.  They find them to be an inferior race possibly because they're slightly shorter and thinner, plus the humans basically conquered them, except the Dalish.  I assume they also find them cowardly since half of them fled when Arlathan was under siege.  Some humans also complain about elves being full of awful diseases and how disgusting the alienages are.  That to me are plenty of reasons why one race might look down on another.
 
I don't like their jaws because I think they look like ****, not because they look different.  I WANT them to look different than humans and dwarves, but I also don't want them to look like **** and I don't believe they need to have weak jaws in order to look different.  They can absolutely get away with keeping the changes confined to their facial features.

[JMSLionheart]

Renard the Bard wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Dragon Age Redesigned, that's all I have to add.

So, you're trying to say that you have nothing to add?

http://dragonage.nex...-1315544238.jpg

[TobiTobsen]

They should focus on remodeling the darkspawn. The elves are fine!

[fchopin]

There is nothing to discuss, the answer is YES.

[Gammalfarmor]

I hope they take the old design back

[Jerrybnsn]

TJPags wrote...

Yes please. Those damn ears just have to go. Could not look at an elf and take it seriously.

Yes.  The whole "knife-ears" fell flat when their ears obviously were drooping.

http://t2.gstatic.co...ro8X-IztGv_5xzw

[Boss Fog]

Lasien wrote...

*snip*

The way you made that argument, you made it seem as if I wanted them to change because of my opinion ALONE in regards to elves being beautiful.  It's one of the reasons I want them to change, not the only reason.

Without posting more pictures and referencing them, these are differences I know.

1. Elves have different shaped eyes than humans, if you go through every elf and human preset.. none of their eyes are the same.  Human eyes tend to be more rectangular as opposed to elves which tend to be more slanted downwards toward the nose.  Not always the case but it is more common.

2. Their noses are different, same as above.  Human noses tend to be more angular and square while elves' have softer more round noses.

3. Their mouths are shaped differently.

4. Human males can have facial hair, elves apparently cannot.

So.... they're asian, then? And all humans are european causasian? Because that's pretty much what you described... 

Lol no that's not what I said, but thanks for putting words in my mouth and derailing the topic.  I described from what I can remember the features that are available to humans and elves in the DA:O CC.  If I were to describe them as Asian I would've talked about the epicanthic fold and how it's different between the two races.    

[Wrathion]

TelvanniWarlord wrote...


In DA2, Fenris mentions to someone that Danarius' guests found his appearance "intimidating."  While I suppose some may find him intimidating; I did not.  I thought he looked borderline silly.

Not because of his face...because of his tattoos...his glowing lyrium tattoos...

*drawing*

I find her to be fairly pretty (for a drawing), she doesn't have weird, huge eyes and she's got almost no separation between her nose and forhead which I kind of like because it's classic elven.  Although I can't really tell because of the angle, her jaw seems to be more or less not weak and undefined.  However, one thing that I hate is that every single damn elf in the game has soleless shoes; out of all the ways to differentiate them this was flat out the most retarded and needs to go.

It's a drawing...not a 3d model...I find concept Anders and Fenris (stubbled Fenris that is) to be much more attractive than their in game models. But I know when you're transferring something to a completely different medium something are impossible...
And anyway concept art isn't final   Need I remind you of concept Zevran? Or female dwarves if we looking at in game models to be a direct reflection of concept...why weren't they even in the game?

"So you assume that humans discriminate against elves only because of the way they look? " Humans discriminate against elves.
 How is that possible? How could they tell if someone was an elf. Physical features. " 

The only indication of this is because they call them "knife-ears" and even then it doesn't necessarily sum up why humans discriminate against elves."

The ears are not why they discriminate against elves. It allows humans to oppress them effectively. If you can discern differences between those that are like you and those you believe are lesser. It's easier. Bioware wants us to believe that humans can tell who is an elf based on their easily hidden ears. And nothing else. "They find them to be an inferior race possibly because they're slightly shorter and thinner, plus the humans basically conquered them, except the Dalish." Humans and elves are diverse in their appearance I doub't that all elves are all shorter than humans. Just like i'm sure Leandra didn't have a healthy rack that just the body they gave to every human female. 
 
 

I don't like their jaws because I think they look like ****, not because they look different.

But you compared them to human and dwarven jaws...

[SpunkyMonkey]

Yes. DA:2 elves were laughably bad

[uzivatel]

While there were some really weird elven faces in DA2 (the same goes for other races as well), I think the DA2 elves were generally an improvement over DAO and most of the elven characters present in both games look way better in DA2.
I am not saying the design should not change, but I would prefer further evolution of DA2 elves.

I always wondered how people in Ferelden could tell the difference between DAO elf and small human - the elves commonly use long hair covering the ears and look pretty much identical to humans (well, its probably just a bug, but Sigrun sems to have some issues to tell the two apart).
At some point of the game I actually forgot my mage was an elf.

[Fallstar]

God yes. The elves were so bad in DA2, that's one place where a massive change of direction is needed.

[Wulfram]

I think they could do with some tweaks, generally in the direction of the human norm. But I'd rather not have another outright retcon.

The extreme sticky out ears should go. They were really only used on minor elves anyway - the characters we were supposed to take seriously got more sensible ears.

[Feanor_II]

I've got no problems with "ugly" elves, but I do have with horned Kossith....... must be the only one

[Boss Fog]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...


In DA2, Fenris mentions to someone that Danarius' guests found his appearance "intimidating."  While I suppose some may find him intimidating; I did not.  I thought he looked borderline silly.

Not because of his face...because of his tattoos...his glowing lyrium tattoos...

*drawing*

I find her to be fairly pretty (for a drawing), she doesn't have weird, huge eyes and she's got almost no separation between her nose and forhead which I kind of like because it's classic elven.  Although I can't really tell because of the angle, her jaw seems to be more or less not weak and undefined.  However, one thing that I hate is that every single damn elf in the game has soleless shoes; out of all the ways to differentiate them this was flat out the most retarded and needs to go.

It's a drawing...not a 3d model...I find concept Anders and Fenris (stubbled Fenris that is) to be much more attractive than their in game models. But I know when you're transferring something to a completely different medium something are impossible...
And anyway concept art isn't final   Need I remind you of concept Zevran? Or female dwarves if we looking at in game models to be a direct reflection of concept...why weren't they even in the game?

"So you assume that humans discriminate against elves only because of the way they look? " Humans discriminate against elves.
 How is that possible? How could they tell if someone was an elf. Physical features. " 

The only indication of this is because they call them "knife-ears" and even then it doesn't necessarily sum up why humans discriminate against elves."

The ears are not why they discriminate against elves. It allows humans to oppress them effectively. If you can discern differences between those that are like you and those you believe are lesser. It's easier. Bioware wants us to believe that humans can tell who is an elf based on their easily hidden ears. And nothing else. "They find them to be an inferior race possibly because they're slightly shorter and thinner, plus the humans basically conquered them, except the Dalish." Humans and elves are diverse in their appearance I doub't that all elves are all shorter than humans. Just like i'm sure Leandra didn't have a healthy rack that just the body they gave to every human female. 
 
 

I don't like their jaws because I think they look like ****, not because they look different.

But you compared them to human and dwarven jaws...

You can't really comment on female dwarves because we have nothing to compare them to.  There aren't any female dwarf characters to look at. Their lack of existence in DA2 has nothing to do with the fact that they are shown in concept art.  They are shown in the concept art because it was a way to show off the new art style.  Also, the DA:O concept art is in no way supposed to mimic the way they look in game; they are highly stylized paintings with armor sets that don't even exist in game.  I don't really care about armor anyway (except for elven soleless shoes), what I'm talking about are physical body features.  On the other hand, DA2's concept art is clearly supposed to give a good idea of what the races are supposed to look like in game.  The male Kossith is practically spot on, the humans look fairly accurate, the elves do NOT match up (except for the nose and ears), the male dwarf does match up.

Saying not all elves/humans look the same is like saying not all dalmations look the same.  Obviously not every dalmation is going to be the same size or have the same fur pattern; but it's still pretty damn easy to differentiate a dalmation from a German Shepard.

Yes, I compared them to humans and dwarves because they actually have appropriate looking jaws.  Taking away their awful jaws and having them look more or less normal isn't going to all of the sudden make them look exactly like humans and dwarves.  It's a feature that didn't need to change; the elves already looked different enough with the changes to their nose, eyes, and ridiculous shoes. 

Modifié par TelvanniWarlord, 18 septembre 2012 - 10:13 .

[Berty213]

Yes please change the elves look and please change the Darkspawn back as well they looked awful in DA2.

[Kidd]

Exicuren wrote...

 
  
In my humble opinion, they should try their hardest to capture the badassery of these 2 elves; probably just wishful thinking on my part though. <_<

Photoshop their ears and I'd believe they're both human at first, second and fifth glance. Stick a helmet or hat on either of them and they could travel Orlais without anybody guessing their heritage. The idea that elves look different is one of the things I like in DA2, even though the function by which BioWare randomises new faces for NPCs probably need a look over.