1841 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica83]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Is fun how some people became irritable when talking about include nudity in scenes that REQUIRE it for the sake of realism....

I repeat.... if i see a woman makin a shower with undies...i think she have serious mental diseases

No one here is irritable. You're making up things, and when people refute them, you're playing the "lolumadbro" card. It doesn't work.

I am not playing that card... It was a manner of say see a woman that make the shower dressed was a stupid and a unnecessary censorship...I mean all this complain for nudity but everyone have no clue to see blood dismemebered body and stuff like that....

A society where gore a violence are more accettable to see a naked body is a sick society...

[Asdrubael Vect]

i am for realism, so if our character want to be naked he/she would be naked

if DA have 18+ so why we not have all types of mature content in this dark fantasy game)))

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 23 juillet 2013 - 05:43 .

[Monica83]

And as i sayd i understand Europe and America have a different definition on what is porn.. At this point is useless if not even hard say what pornography is...
To me... If some scene requires nudity is right put them on it.. Or just avoid to make some scenes

Modifié par Monica83, 23 juillet 2013 - 05:46 .

[CronoDragoon]

Monica83 wrote...
No no i read it.. The last comment was writed as example.. not intended to be addressed at you in particular... About the definition... There is a different meaning of porn between america and europe... I can't understand the confusion what for you or other are porn for me are not... America tends to use the term porn confusing it with eros.... In europe porn have a mor explicit meaning and scene like you described are just defined as erotic scene... Just to clarify...

Do you have a definition for pornography for your country handy, or one for Europe in general?

To have sex you don't have necessarly to romance someone... Sex can happen by part of a romance in rl but also if you find someone extremely attractive... I know for some people is kinda hard to admit but happens... I know is more acceptable for the people mind that sex comes after love but is not always in this manner...The witcher features sex scene with the puropose of sex? Well is part of the setting.. The witcher world is a gritty medieval fantasy... In medieval was more common go with an hooker and didin't even mention the violent part of the medieval life that i don't and never want to see..Is wrong put it on the game? no its not..as a long don't contain sex for the sake of violence that would be very very bad tasteful...

A sex scene doesn't have to be for the sake of love. There's a sex scene in The Wire to show the opposite; someone with a prostitute instead of home with their lover. The purpose of that scene is to show how the character was alienating herself from her life at home, in particular discarding the potential of a future with the person that she lived with.

This is what people mean when they say a scene needs a purpose to the sex and nudity. Saying, "It's necessary for the setting" isn't specific enough. Hardcore sex is also necessary for the setting of porn movies, in which the characters are the type to screw cable guys ten seconds after they enter the room. That doesn't stop those scenes from being pornographic, because they are there primarily for the boobs bouncing.

Another example is Joffrey commanding one prostitute to brutally assault another while he aimed a crossbow at them. That scene was not intended to arouse; it was meant to illustrate the depths of Joffrey's cruelty and borderline insanity.

So  again, what about the prostitute scenes in TW2 deepen your understanding of the game, its lore, or its characters? Nothing happens in the scenes besides the sex: I don't understand any more fully how the prostitution cycle works in the world, I don't gain some new information about how characters back then had sex with prostitutes, Geralt doesn't do anything that deepens my understanding of his character. The only new information you could possibly glean is that Geralt sleeps with prostitutes, which is information equally available from a fade to black.

[CronoDragoon]

Monica83 wrote...
I am not playing that card... It was a manner of say see a woman that make the shower dressed was a stupid and a unnecessary censorship...I mean all this complain for nudity but everyone have no clue to see blood dismemebered body and stuff like that....

A society where gore a violence are more accettable to see a naked body is a sick society...

Yes, showing a woman dressed in the shower is stupid. No, that doesn't mean an extended scene of her naked showering - complete with close-ups of nipples and butt - has any purpose. Angel Season 4 has a shower scene with Faith where she freaks out and destroys the shower wall because of her mental instability: no nudity was necessary to get that point across - they just framed the camera above her chest.

This applies to violence too, by the way. Anything that CAN be gratuitous, essentially. There's such a thing as violence for the sake of violence, which amounts to the same thing. The only reason I'm singling out nudity's purpose in scenes is because that's what this thread is about.

Edit:

Monica83 wrote...
To me... If some scene requires nudity is right put them on it.. Or just avoid to make some scenes

That's what I've been saying with fade to black. I'm by no means demanding Origins style sex scenes were people's genitalia turn Arcane Warrior and penetrate clothes somehow.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 23 juillet 2013 - 05:57 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

They have two clear options.

1. They want to avoid nudity, in which case they absolutely must avoid any scenes where nudity would be appropriate

2. They want freedom to design any scenes they feel necessary, in which case they must be willing to include nudity where those scenes call for it.

If the game contains any scenes that would be improved with nudity, but don't contain that nudity, then they've failed.

They've failed less if they let us mod that nudity in.

[Monica83]

As i sayd... Pornography in europe or at least in italy but in past was a similiar discussion on the off topic board and a guy told what i sayd (and was eruopean) have a different meaning...

Pornography is mostly (in europe) explicit act content featuring initimate part during the act..So for our definition of pornography witcher 2 scenes are not porn...

But Erotic Scenes..

About the hooker thing... Geralt is not the perfect hero it makes also mistakes and have weak points... One of them is women... The witcher world is a world were people are rude that in the free time punch eachother in the tavern or spend time in the brothel.. Geralt go with an hooker? yes perfectly understandable for two reason... The setting...And the Character... Was necessary add hookers in the game? In a gameplay poin of wiew no.... In a setting point of wiew yes because contribute to make the world more believable..

[CronoDragoon]

Monica83 wrote...
Pornography is mostly (in europe) explicit act content featuring initimate part during the act..So for our definition of pornography witcher 2 scenes are not porn...

If that's true, then I apologize for saying you were making up your own definition, though I have no idea whether or not that other guy you read was making up his own definition or not since I can't find an accepted Italian definition online.

Let's skip the semantic arguments and continue with the real argument, which is whether or not TW2 sex scenes have any purpose besides sexual arousal.

Monica83 wrote...
About the hooker thing... Geralt is not the perfect hero it makes also mistakes and have weak points... One of them is women... The witcher world is a world were people are rude that in the free time punch eachother in the tavern or spend time in the brothel.. Geralt go with an hooker? yes perfectly understandable for two reason... The setting...And the Character... Was necessary add hookers in the game? In a gameplay poin of wiew no.... In a setting point of wiew yes because contribute to make the world more believable..

But again, this purpose is achieved equally well without the scene at all. If Geralt chooses the dialogue options to sleep with hookers and you get a fade to black, then you've received the EXACT same information relevant to the story. Now if Geralt had donkey punched one of the prostitutes and accidentally killed her, then killed the other prostitutes and buried their bodies under the harem to hide it, then the scene has given me new information about Geralt and about the events happening in the story that I would not have received from a fade to black. Or if during sex Geralt had started crying or something. You get the idea.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 23 juillet 2013 - 06:09 .

[Am1vf]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Monica83 wrote...
Pornography is mostly (in europe) explicit
act content featuring initimate part during the act..So for our
definition of pornography witcher 2 scenes are not porn...

In that case, we can skip the semantic arguments and skip right to the real argument, which is whether or not TW2 sex scenes have any purpose besides sexual arousal.

Monica83 wrote...
About the hooker thing... Geralt is not the perfect hero it makes also mistakes and have weak points... One of them is women... The witcher world is a world were people are rude that in the free time punch eachother in the tavern or spend time in the brothel.. Geralt go with an hooker? yes perfectly understandable for two reason... The setting...And the Character... Was necessary add hookers in the game? In a gameplay poin of wiew no.... In a setting point of wiew yes because contribute to make the world more believable..

But again, this purpose is achieved equally well without the scene at all. If Geralt chooses the dialogue options to sleep with hookers and you get a fade to black, then you've received the EXACT same information relevant to the story. Now if Geralt had donkey punched one of the prostitutes and accidentally killed her, then killed the other prostitutes and buried their bodies under the harem to hide it, then the scene has given me new information about Geralt and about the events happening in the story.

And you can have the same information about a fight, or even better, through cutscenes than gameplay, but this is not just about information.

That said, I think I remember from the books that Jaskier/Dandelion was the one who wanted to go to the brothel and Geralt didn't, it allways seemed a bit out of character to me but I suppose with his amnesia it is open to other interpretations from players who want to remodelate his personality.

[Blackrising]

Monica83 wrote...

As i sayd... Pornography in europe or at least in italy but in past was a similiar discussion on the off topic board and a guy told what i sayd (and was eruopean) have a different meaning...

Pornography is mostly (in europe) explicit act content featuring initimate part during the act..So for our definition of pornography witcher 2 scenes are not porn...

But Erotic Scenes..

About the hooker thing... Geralt is not the perfect hero it makes also mistakes and have weak points... One of them is women... The witcher world is a world were people are rude that in the free time punch eachother in the tavern or spend time in the brothel.. Geralt go with an hooker? yes perfectly understandable for two reason... The setting...And the Character... Was necessary add hookers in the game? In a gameplay poin of wiew no.... In a setting point of wiew yes because contribute to make the world more believable..

Please, stop acting as though it's a difference in culture rather than personal definition.
I'm from Europe (Germany to be exact) and porn is, as far as I'm concerned, any kind of sexual scene that is meant to arouse the viewer without developing characters or story.

[Am1vf]

Filament wrote...

Does nudity really need a purpose in situations where it's expected? The assumption is that it ought to be censored unless its existence can be 'justified' as if it's some dirty thing. The only thing I think nudity needs to prove is that it's not gratuitous fanservice, which granted, with the general cultural taboo being what it is, and with nudity being relegated to titles that are purposefully "edgy" as to break that convention, and with "edgy" titles attracting the crowds that they do... it probably is usually more in the realm of gratuitous fanservice.

But hypothetically if someone's in a shower it could be expected that they should be naked and the only thing the devs would have to not do is a slow upward pan across all their sexy body regions. They shouldn't have to explicitly avoid showing anything "unclean."

That was dictamined by the Catholic Church during the Renaissance and, to some extent, many people still uphold it.

[Monica83]

But see the scene add immersion and makes the setting more believable... Cd Project dosn't care to scare player with details about the setting... In sex and also in violence...With that i am not sayng i am aganist fade to black scenes... In personal manner i prefear see the scene.. It' don't offend me it dosn't disturb me.. And for me add realism to the setting... Is a matter of personal preference but again... I can't understand why in a game rated 18+ you can see any kind of violence and nudity or sex scene must fade to black...The truth is.. There is not reason at all the only reason is to don't offend those that are offended to see a naked pixel body because they feel bad... And this is wrong... Just because if a game feature those content or include scene where nudity must be present is stupid put out of context material like the example mentioned before just for the sake of censorhip...

For sure adding fade to black scenes cd project will pleasure people offended by nudity but again....in that manner they ruined the credibility of the setting... So i am glad they didin't do it

[Degs29]

Not to derail this, but what's wrong with porn in games as it is being defined here? Why does labeling something as porn automatically make it something far more diabolical?

[Monica83]

Blackrising wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

As i sayd... Pornography in europe or at least in italy but in past was a similiar discussion on the off topic board and a guy told what i sayd (and was eruopean) have a different meaning...

Pornography is mostly (in europe) explicit act content featuring initimate part during the act..So for our definition of pornography witcher 2 scenes are not porn...

But Erotic Scenes..

About the hooker thing... Geralt is not the perfect hero it makes also mistakes and have weak points... One of them is women... The witcher world is a world were people are rude that in the free time punch eachother in the tavern or spend time in the brothel.. Geralt go with an hooker? yes perfectly understandable for two reason... The setting...And the Character... Was necessary add hookers in the game? In a gameplay poin of wiew no.... In a setting point of wiew yes because contribute to make the world more believable..

Please, stop acting as though it's a difference in culture rather than personal definition.
I'm from Europe (Germany to be exact) and porn is, as far as I'm concerned, any kind of sexual scene that is meant to arouse the viewer without developing characters or story.

As i sayd... Pornography in europe "" or at least in italy ""

Care to read a little?

[CronoDragoon]

Am1_vf wrote...
And you can have the same information about a fight, or even better, through cutscenes than gameplay, but this is not just about information.

The discussion is about the purpose of scenes, one of which (a primary purpose, usually) is to give the player/viewer new information about a character, plot, or setting. The sex scenes don't do that, or at least don't do it more effectively than a fade to black. In point of fact they are less effective since they waste the player's time (besides obviously the sexual excitement/pleasure the scene arouses).

[Monica83]

Degs29 wrote...

Not to derail this, but what's wrong with porn in games as it is being defined here? Why does labeling something as porn automatically make it something far more diabolical?

It seems people are offended by nudity and sexual content the reason is something i can't even understand and i don't want it..

[CronoDragoon]

Filament wrote...

Does nudity really need a purpose in situations where it's expected? The assumption is that it ought to be censored unless its existence can be 'justified' as if it's some dirty thing.

No, it doesn't need a purpose in scenes where it's expected. We aren't talking about nudity in scenes that demand it, we're (or at least I'm) saying that TW2 scenes exist only to show nudity.

In other words, I'm questioning the reason for existence of the scenes, not the nudity.

Edit:

Degs29 wrote...

Not to derail this, but what's wrong with
porn in games as it is being defined here? Why does labeling something
as porn automatically make it something far more diabolical?

Well, redundant or unnecessary scenes do make the story worse critically. But that's not something I really care about in this case; I simply don't believe they are tasteful or meaningful to the story. I have no issue if someone wants to say, "Yeah they were overkill and unnecessary, but hey who doesn't like some boobs thrown in every now and then?" I'd probably agree with that person, since I like boobs.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 23 juillet 2013 - 06:26 .

[thats1evildude]

CronoDragoon wrote...

That's what I've been saying with fade to black. I'm by no means demanding Origins style sex scenes were people's genitalia turn Arcane Warrior and penetrate clothes somehow.

Hey! I like my humping the way I like my martinis: drrrrrrrry.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 23 juillet 2013 - 06:24 .

[Am1vf]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...
And you can have the same information about a fight, or even better, through cutscenes than gameplay, but this is not just about information.

The discussion is about the purpose of scenes, one of which (a primary purpose, usually) is to give the player/viewer new information about a character, plot, or setting. The sex scenes don't do that, or at least don't do it more effectively than a fade to black. In point of fact they are less effective since they waste the player's time (besides obviously the sexual excitement/pleasure the scene arouses).

And my point is that violence could also be censored and still have the same information about a character, plot, or setting. But usually players want to see and experience the world instead of just knowing about it.

Instead if suggesting censorship I would ask for sex scenes that express the emotions, personality, culture and relationship of the characters better.

[CronoDragoon]

Am1_vf wrote...
And my point is that violence could also be censored and still have the same information about a character, plot, or setting. But usually players want to see and experience the world instead of just knowing about it.

You're bringing gameplay into this when it doesn't really apply. If we restrict ourselves to cutscene violence, however, then it depends on the scene. Does the fight show me some new information about the world or its characters? Actually, it usually does. How competent is the protagonist? The enemy? What fighting styles do they use? TW2 sex scenes don't do this. They are just two or more people humping. Beyond sexual arousal they are fundamentally boring. But like sex, violence can be gratuitous, and it can often be gratuitously boring.

Instead if suggesting censorship I would ask for sex scenes that express the emotions, personality, culture and relationship of the characters better.

Sure. I'm just pointing out scenes that *don't* do this.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 23 juillet 2013 - 06:31 .

[Bionuts]

Sex in real life really isn't as pretty as some of you are making it out to be.