1841 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

cronodragoon wrote...


In essence, this comes back - again - to purpose. Why are TW2's creators trying to appeal to libido by showing Geralt having sex with nameless random prostitutes?

Isn't promiscuity an aspect of Geralt's character while the bulk of his sexcapades are optional?

[Am1vf]

LorDC wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

LorDC wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...
The problem with porn is that, as an industry, disregards storytelling and any short of meaningful message. I think it could be vastly improved if they tried to do something interesting and also get some respectability, but the thing is that they don't.

Problem with pornography is that it has to deal physical arousal which distracts from all other aspects of the story. When people want to get off, story will on distract them from having release, and when they want to read story, their arousal will distract them from storyline.

I disagree.

Then give me a list of novels/movies/whatever that strike a good balance between two. I honestly would REALLY love to see them.

I don't have a list, and I don't have proof, it's just my belief. If I had to mention something I would say the Shiniez comics on deviantART (iwould link it but I think it's against forum rules or something) and maybe, just maybe, the Mayfair Withches books from Anne Rice. But I'm not conviced this proves anything.

[garrusfan1]

this thread is still hear

[LorDC]

garrusfan1 wrote...

this thread is still hear

And what does it hear? =)

[Cainhurst Crow]

Depends on what your asking. Are you asking for female big jiggly boobs to be seeable in cutscenes and stuff? Full on frontal nudity with ****** and bush? Male frontal nudity as well? Depiction of penetration?

What exactly are we looking for here?

[CronoDragoon]

LorDC wrote...
I think our disagreement is about what makes a scene worth putting in game(or any other entrtainmetn media for that matter). You(as yout arguments imply) judge it by plot relevance, I judge it by amount of fun it gives to the player.

Well, I don't think my argument even goes that far. Originally I joined in because Monica said that TW2's sex scenes are fundamentally different than God of War's sex "game". I didn't buy that and that's what started this whole debate. I think you may even agree with me here since you brought up the gamification of women conquest as a reason for including the scene.  I am indeed arguing that the story would be improved from a critical standpoint by the removal of such scenes, but I'm not saying that this would make the story more enjoyable. I think our disagreement is that you value content strictly by the enjoyment it provides, whereas I tend to value both pure enjoyment but also...what would the word be? Critical worth? Literary?

Maria Caliban wrote...

Geralt doesn't have sex with nameless, random prostitutes in TW2. Are you confusing it with TW1?

I'm pretty sure there's a harem tent in Act 2.

You
have yet to explain how evoking desire is inherently juvenile while evoking laughter isn't. But now you've added 'physical comedy is inherently juvenile' to the pile without explaining why.

I tried to rephrase my assertion into one about method and purpose, but let me try and be more clear about my position:

There are certain methods of evoking desire or laughter that are juvenile. They are juvenile because they ignore the higher thinking faculties altogether, instead focusing on producing a reaction that is more instinctual than conceptual or intellectual. The most common of idiots can write physical comedy or porn. The worst metal bands can make people angry simply by pounding drums and guitars. Other methods of evoking these emotions are not juvenile: by reflecting some truth about culture or the nature of man, by getting us to care about a character and their development.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 23 juillet 2013 - 08:30 .

[Ziggeh]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sometimes scenes are added just to possibly arouse the reader/player/viewer. There's nothing inherently juvenile in appealing to the libido. 

In and of itself, definitely not. There's nothing inherently juvenile about humour either, but one wouldn't consider a woopie cushion sophisticated.

[Degs29]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Depends on what your asking. Are you asking for female big jiggly boobs to be seeable in cutscenes and stuff? Full on frontal nudity with ****** and bush? Male frontal nudity as well? Depiction of penetration?

What exactly are we looking for here?

Tolerance.  Freedom.

I personally appreciate some of the mature scenes Bioware has put in its games, but it's fine if some people like all of them (or different ones) or some people like none of them.  I'm not sure what the big issue is.  I'd be much more concerned about flaws in the overall story or game mechanics.

[Am1vf]

What we are looking for?

Idk, high minded debate about the intricacies of fiction in the new media? or maybe we just want, as Blackadder would put it, "to start the day with a total ****head to remind me I'm best!".

Modifié par Am1_vf, 23 juillet 2013 - 08:42 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Maybe you should consider peoples fears of how bioware would handle nudity, IE lots of gratuitous female nudity that doesn't match the scenes or mood and is only there to give the player something distracting to look at in an otherwise boring scene, like how micheal bay uses explosions. And that such exploitation film like use of nudity would be very immersion breaking for players.

Also the question of motive as for why nudity should be put into the game comes into play.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 23 juillet 2013 - 08:34 .

[Urazz]

I think if it's handled like it was in Mass Effect 1 then it would be fine. Anything more than that would be too much I think.

[TheMyron]

As much as I like them, do we really need sex scenes at all? Is there anything wrong with just leaving the implications of sex without showing the actual sex like in the past?

[IC-07]

TheMyron wrote...

As much as I like them, do we really need sex scenes at all? Is there anything wrong with just leaving the implications of sex without showing the actual sex like in the past?

Do we actually need implications of sex in Bioware games?

[Am1vf]

IC-07 wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

As much as I like them, do we really need sex scenes at all? Is there anything wrong with just leaving the implications of sex without showing the actual sex like in the past?

Do we actually need implications of sex in Bioware games?

Do we actually need Bioware games?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Also the whole dating sim aspect of it is a bit weird tbh.

[Blackrising]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Also the whole dating sim aspect of it is a bit weird tbh.

You've never played a dating sim before, have you?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Am1_vf wrote...

IC-07 wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

As much as I like them, do we really need sex scenes at all? Is there anything wrong with just leaving the implications of sex without showing the actual sex like in the past?

Do we actually need implications of sex in Bioware games?

Do we actually need Bioware games?

Do we actually need video games?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Blackrising wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Also the whole dating sim aspect of it is a bit weird tbh.

You've never played a dating sim before, have you?

I have once. Online and free.

Bioware romances are like a dumbed down version, but still pretty much the same.

[IC-07]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Also the whole dating sim aspect of it is a bit weird tbh.

You've never played a dating sim before, have you?

I have once. Online and free.

Bioware romances are like a dumbed down version, but still pretty much the same.

This is how successful their romances are (in DA2):

Modifié par IC-07, 23 juillet 2013 - 09:34 .

[Blackrising]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Also the whole dating sim aspect of it is a bit weird tbh.

You've never played a dating sim before, have you?

I have once. Online and free.

Bioware romances are like a dumbed down version, but still pretty much the same.

Ugh. Online and free just sounds like it has to be bad.
Care to tell me what it was called?

Romances in Bioware games are closer to visual novels with romance elements than dating sims. The point of dating sims is to raise your stats for the express purpose of appealing to your chosen LI.
Visual novels focus on the story and the choices you make.
So if anything, Bioware romances have a visual novel aspect.

And I can't see how that is bad. Many visual novels have an incredibly deep and engaging storyline beyond the romance.

[AutumnWitch]

TheMyron wrote...

As much as I like them, do we really need sex scenes at all? Is there anything wrong with just leaving the implications of sex without showing the actual sex like in the past?

We don't actually need any romance options or sex options but it's really nice to have them as they make the story richer and more complex.

However, I hate the fully clothed fall into bed crap as well. So if they are going to show that then why not just show them nude but without exposing the "naughty bits". Like they do in PG-13 films. That was the viewer doesn't have any "suspension of disbelief" issues but BioWare doesn't have all the "somebody think of the children" brigades climbing all over their arses.

TBO honest the odds of BioWare showing nudity or real sex are pretty darn slim anyway.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Blackrising wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Also the whole dating sim aspect of it is a bit weird tbh.

You've never played a dating sim before, have you?

I have once. Online and free.

Bioware romances are like a dumbed down version, but still pretty much the same.

Ugh. Online and free just sounds like it has to be bad.
Care to tell me what it was called?

Romances in Bioware games are closer to visual novels with romance elements than dating sims. The point of dating sims is to raise your stats for the express purpose of appealing to your chosen LI.
Visual novels focus on the story and the choices you make.
So if anything, Bioware romances have a visual novel aspect.

And I can't see how that is bad. Many visual novels have an incredibly deep and engaging storyline beyond the romance.

It was on newgrounds.com. That should help put things in perspective.

Bioware's romances are all formulaic, you get the chit chat, the flag event that deepends the relationship, the final flag that you need to do before you can get an actual romance scene, and than done.

[spirosz]

It depends on the situation and what is appropriate for the relationship and characters at hand. If we're specifically pointing out romance scenes, then that again, falls under above. Example, Jack's Paragon scene is (if you view it the way I do) basically Jack letting her restraints down long enough to feel the embrace and warmth of Shepard and how they fall back into the "cuddling" because she still getting to know Shepard, as he is to Jack - there was no sex in that scene (how I view it) and it was relevant to what was being portrayed for the relationship itself.

Where as Traynor, in ME3 for example - that shower scene.... it just looked awkward and to me, it would of worked better with minor nudity at best. Or the "underwear" scenes in DA: Origins. The romances themselves are wonderful and the build up to it, but the scenes themselves tend to be immersion breaking for me.

I don't want full out nudity, I'd rather a fade to black type of person, but I'm open to it being done when it's appropriate for the RELATIONSHIP and the scene and if it's done well.

[Am1vf]

spirosz wrote...

It depends on the situation and what is appropriate for the relationship and characters at hand. If we're specifically pointing out romance scenes, then that again, falls under above. Example, Jack's Paragon scene is (if you view it the way I do) basically Jack letting her restraints down long enough to feel the embrace and warmth of Shepard and how they fall back into the "cuddling" because she still getting to know Shepard, as he is to Jack - there was no sex in that scene (how I view it) and it was relevant to what was being portrayed for the relationship itself.

Where as Traynor, in ME3 for example - that shower scene.... it just looked awkward and to me, it would of worked better with minor nudity at best. Or the "underwear" scenes in DA: Origins. The romances themselves are wonderful and the build up to it, but the scenes themselves tend to be immersion breaking for me.

I don't want full out nudity, I'd rather a fade to black type of person, but I'm open to it being done when it's appropriate for the RELATIONSHIP and the scene and if it's done well.

That is true, they want to make it seem like it's a climatic moment in the romance storyline but it's usually the worst climatic moment since the end of the Tunnel Rats game trailer.

Another thing that bothers me about The Witcher 2 is how the development of Ves stops abruptly after the sex scene, it's like they are saying that once you bed someone you don't even need to know anything more about them<_<.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Witcher 2, the greatest game for female rights activist.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 23 juillet 2013 - 11:29 .