1841 réponses à ce sujet

[mupp3tz]

Former_Fiend wrote...
It doesn't make sense for Morrigan to be wearing a bra when her standard outfit makes it fairly obvious that she doesn't.

Good sir, I like your points.. but this is something I never even considered. And now it's kind of hilarious.

[Former_Fiend]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...
It doesn't make sense for Morrigan to be wearing a bra when her standard outfit makes it fairly obvious that she doesn't.

Good sir, I like your points.. but this is something I never even considered. And now it's kind of hilarious.

I know, right? Where was she hiding it?

[Cainhurst Crow]

cjones91 wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Translation: We're too afraid of the backlash from Fox News and others to not cater to prudes.

Right, because Bioware's view on the LGBT group totally falls in line with Fox news.  I forgot about that.

True,but they seem afraid to show nudity just like other game devs and it's because of the ME1 Faux News uproar.

If you really think that, than I pity you and your deluded view on the power a single throw away story on fox news has.

[mupp3tz]

Former_Fiend wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...
It doesn't make sense for Morrigan to be wearing a bra when her standard outfit makes it fairly obvious that she doesn't.

Good sir, I like your points.. but this is something I never even considered. And now it's kind of hilarious.

I know, right? Where was she hiding it?

Yo, sexy time? Lemme get butt nekkid, first. 




*puts on bra*
Okay, let's go!

[Cainhurst Crow]

So every romance scene and segment requires sex? I mean, with all this talk of appropriate nudity and all that, I'm assuming that's what everyone is driving for, that all romances must have sex at the end to be of actual value, and that that sex must be shown in it's entirety or in a montage of nude full frontal in order to be considered mature and not childish. That doesn't really make much sense to me personally, but than again I don't know what all the characters will be like.

It just doesn't seem worth animating really, especially since your only going to see it once, and than for a very short amount of time.

[Former_Fiend]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...
It doesn't make sense for Morrigan to be wearing a bra when her standard outfit makes it fairly obvious that she doesn't.

Good sir, I like your points.. but this is something I never even considered. And now it's kind of hilarious.

I know, right? Where was she hiding it?

Yo, sexy time? Lemme get butt nekkid, first. 




*puts on bra*
Okay, let's go!

Truly, the people of the Wilds have strange mating rituals.

[cjones91]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Translation: We're too afraid of the backlash from Fox News and others to not cater to prudes.

Right, because Bioware's view on the LGBT group totally falls in line with Fox news.  I forgot about that.

True,but they seem afraid to show nudity just like other game devs and it's because of the ME1 Faux News uproar.

If you really think that, than I pity you and your deluded view on the power a single throw away story on fox news has.

Alot of idiots watch Fox News...the same time type of idiots that make a uproar about any time nudity in games.And quite frankly I was simply making a observation so save the condescending attitude for someone else because I'm not deluded.

Modifié par cjones91, 26 septembre 2013 - 08:47 .

[Neon Rising Winter]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So every romance scene and segment requires sex? I mean, with all this talk of appropriate nudity and all that, I'm assuming that's what everyone is driving for, that all romances must have sex at the end to be of actual value, and that that sex must be shown in it's entirety or in a montage of nude full frontal in order to be considered mature and not childish. That doesn't really make much sense to me personally, but than again I don't know what all the characters will be like.

It just doesn't seem worth animating really, especially since your only going to see it once, and than for a very short amount of time.

Oh no you're way behind, we've got nude sex, nude fighting, nude wandering around letting it all hang out. And that's only on the yes side. In the no nudity camp we have tasteful fades to black, trained scenery, and indeed no sex. Your assumptions are indeed ill founded.

[mupp3tz]

@DarthBrothian

No, but that sometimes nudity makes sense in context. If they don't want to show full frontal, then you can have carefully framed scenes. As Former_Fiend pointed out, there are some scenarios where having undergarments (which apparently is a popular style) doesn't make sense.

The contextual disconnect also happens in gameplay and cutscenes, but it just so happens that nudity is the subject of this thread and that = romance for most people. As others have pointed out, there is already nudity in the game in the form of broodmothers and desire demons... and it's strange that the design approach to those are more welcoming than a romance scene, where the focus is not shock or manipulation via lust. Personally, I'm fine with fade to blacks and no full frontals... but it's just weird that romances are handled differently. More carefully.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 26 septembre 2013 - 08:41 .

[Former_Fiend]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So every romance scene and segment requires sex? I mean, with all this talk of appropriate nudity and all that, I'm assuming that's what everyone is driving for, that all romances must have sex at the end to be of actual value, and that that sex must be shown in it's entirety or in a montage of nude full frontal in order to be considered mature and not childish. That doesn't really make much sense to me personally, but than again I don't know what all the characters will be like.

It just doesn't seem worth animating really, especially since your only going to see it once, and than for a very short amount of time.

I don't think every romance scene should lead to, include, or imply sex. Nor do I believe everyone that does should include nudity. 

I think, for the most part, the DA2 love scenes are fine. They fade to black and fade back in after it's done and it makes some sense for the parties involved to have put some clothing back on(not so sure about Merrill's scene, if only because I think the female elf's undergarments in DA2 looked like too much of a hassle to just slip back into).

What I am saying is that some of the alternatives to showing nudity don't make much sense. The one I keep harping on- and will continue to harp on- is Samantha Traynor's scene in ME3. DIfferent team, I know, but Bioware needs to take notes.

Liara's final romance scene in ME3 was actually a well done demonstration of what I'm talking about; she was fully nude, but you didn't actually get to see anything. You see the bare back, you see a low cut on the cleavage; just enough to know that no, she isn't wearing anything.

Nudity, even when not blatant, has a powerful and subtle narrative impact. It shows intamacy. It shows that these two are comfortable around each other. It shows that they're willing to be vulnverable around each other. That they're relaxed together.

[Han Shot First]

Is nudity necessary for sex or romance scenes?

If we use films as an example I would say no, not necessarily. Nudity (or lack of it) doesn't determine whether or not the scene is good. I'd be more concerned about whether the scene made sense for the two characters, whether it added to the plot or their character arcs in some way, whether it required suspension of disbelief, and whether or not it was gratuitous. You can have a good scene with or without nudity and you can have a bad scene with or without nudity. I think the same holds true for games.

In these discussions people are often fixated on something that is mostly a non-issue, and that has no impact whatsoever on the quality of the scene.

That being said I do think people who complain about clothed or semi-clothed dry-humping have a legitimate gripe, even if it they then follow it up by wrongly implying that sex scenes must have nudity to be good. People generally don't have sex or shower (Traynor!) clothed, so when characters do that in a game it tends to look a bit silly. If the devs decide that the DA:I romance scenes won't show nudity it is better to go the Liara route and imply nudity without actually showing anything R-rated, or to simply fade to black.

[Former_Fiend]

Han Shot First wrote...

Is nudity necessary for sex or romance scenes?

If we use films as an example I would say no, not necessarily. Nudity (or lack of it) doesn't determine whether or not the scene is good. I'd be more concerned about whether the scene made sense for the two characters, whether it added to the plot or their character arcs in some way, whether it required suspension of disbelief, and whether or not it was gratuitous. You can have a good scene with or without nudity and you can have a bad scene with or without nudity. I think the same holds true for games.

In these discussions people are often fixated on something that is mostly a non-issue, and that has no impact whatsoever on the quality of the scene.

That being said I do think people who complain about clothed or semi-clothed dry-humping have a legitimate gripe, even if it they then follow it up by wrongly implying that sex scenes must have nudity to be good. People generally don't have sex or shower (Traynor!) clothed, so when characters do that in a game it tends to look a bit silly. If the devs decide that the DA:I romance scenes won't show nudity it is better to go the Liara route and imply nudity without actually showing anything R-rated, or to simply fade to black.

I generally agree with this.

What I think they should do is look at the scenes they're making on a case by case basis and ask themselves "would including some tastefully done nudity in this scene be gratiutious and unnecessary, or would it make it more impactful and emotional? Would this character being naked distract from the scene more than the character being clothed(Traynor!)?"

[Angrywolves]

Darth is being ridiculous.
He knows better.
If people hate romances and don't want nudity in DAI, then they should just say so and quit making ridiculous assertion s like all romances require sex, not just any sex, not tastefully done intimacy like Liara in ME, but the most gross, offensive , in your face sex possible , so people like darth can pretend to be offended, and of course point the middle finger of blame at those " fans " who asked for romances.

[Cainhurst Crow]

cjones91 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Translation: We're too afraid of the backlash from Fox News and others to not cater to prudes.

Right, because Bioware's view on the LGBT group totally falls in line with Fox news.  I forgot about that.

True,but they seem afraid to show nudity just like other game devs and it's because of the ME1 Faux News uproar.

If you really think that, than I pity you and your deluded view on the power a single throw away story on fox news has.

Alot of idiots watch Fox News...the same time type of idiots that make a uproar about any time nudity in games.And quite frankly I was simply making a observation so save the condescending attitude for someone else because I'm not deluded.

Than don't post like a deluded person. It's the easiest way to not be condescended to.

[Magdalena11]

OK, from a purely practical standpoint. Character development, check. If there's anyting BW does well, it's developing NPCs. Aesthetically pleasing, probably. The old tried and true still works, last I heard. Feasible plot-wise, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, if nothing else to advance the story. Tasteful, not sure about that one. I'd rather the nasty not happen at all if it has to be done in granny pants. I'd rather not see anything at all than have that image burned into my mind. Sorry if I ;m spoiling it for anyone, just not getting the point. I'd rather end my gaming day unsatisfied than disappointed. If modesty is to be a burden, I'd prefer it to be a blessing as well.

[Cainhurst Crow]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

@DarthBrothian

No, but that sometimes nudity makes sense in context. If they don't want to show full frontal, then you can have carefully framed scenes. As Former_Fiend pointed out, there are some scenarios where having undergarments (which apparently is a popular style) doesn't make sense.

The contextual disconnect also happens in gameplay and cutscenes, but it just so happens that nudity is the subject of this thread and that = romance for most people. As others have pointed out, there is already nudity in the game in the form of broodmothers and desire demons... and it's strange that the design approach to those are more welcoming than a romance scene, where the focus is not shock or manipulation via lust. Personally, I'm fine with fade to blacks and no full frontals... but it's just weird that romances are handled differently. More carefully.

Well, I'm just trying to figure out scenarios that wouldn't come off as forced in order to have nudity in them, and still be reasonable for people to be naked. A bath scene I guess would be called for nudity, but that implies a bath segment is needed to be in this game at all. And you seem to have been given a reasonable nudity in dragon age with the two scenarios you listed. Broodmothers aren't given clothes because their entire point is creating darkspawn and little more. Desire demons don't need clothes because they want to insight lust in others.

So where is this place that should have nudity in the dragon age inquisiton game, that doesn't have it, and requires it to be rectified? Why would you need to create a level, segment, or location where it's abo****ely neccisary the characters be naked? If you don't want nudity for nudity's sake, than where is it that you could put it in, that it would be absolutely ridiculous to not have it?

Traynor's shower scene was bad, I think everyone knows this by now. But outside of traynors shower scene, where is this burning example of required nudity for appropriate atmospheric setting in the narrative?

[JimboGee]

@Br3ad I should have known that someone with a name like yours would completely miss my point. So here it is again in English nice and slow so you can understand. I am not suggesting that they make a mini game out of it nor am I suggesting that it be trivialized. I'm simply saying that other games/movies whatever, don't shy away from nudity so why do Bioware. I mean for Christs sake they seem to have no problem allowing gays in a video game but not nudity? If anything you would think that would cause the problem. At any rate I'm sure the PC elitist masters of the universe will rectify that problem should it not go their way.

[Treacherous J Slither]

If there's a ****house that we visit for whatever reason I wanna see some nekkidniss.

Any nudity in the game should be done with taste and good reason. I have no interest in pornography in my DA. There's enough of it in my hard drive >:]

[cjones91]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Translation: We're too afraid of the backlash from Fox News and others to not cater to prudes.

Right, because Bioware's view on the LGBT group totally falls in line with Fox news.  I forgot about that.

True,but they seem afraid to show nudity just like other game devs and it's because of the ME1 Faux News uproar.

If you really think that, than I pity you and your deluded view on the power a single throw away story on fox news has.

Alot of idiots watch Fox News...the same time type of idiots that make a uproar about any time nudity in games.And quite frankly I was simply making a observation so save the condescending attitude for someone else because I'm not deluded.

Than don't post like a deluded person. It's the easiest way to not be condescended to.

How was my post deluded?It's a simple fact Bioware got some heat from Fox News over the ME1 Femshep/Liara sex scene and that may have contributed to them being squemish in regards to adding nudity in their games.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Angrywolves wrote...

Darth is being ridiculous.
He knows better.
If people hate romances and don't want nudity in DAI, then they should just say so and quit making ridiculous assertion s like all romances require sex, not just any sex, not tastefully done intimacy like Liara in ME, but the most gross, offensive , in your face sex possible , so people like darth can pretend to be offended, and of course point the middle finger of blame at those " fans " who asked for romances.

I do apologize if my point wasn't in the form of a badly formatted dismissal and generalization you could easily dismiss as being ignorant. And that, in my attempt to better understand the points being brought up about appropriate scenes of nudity, I used deductive reasoning to think of the most likely place where nudity would be found, and didn't just make a arguement about nudity being gross or immoral or whatever ridiculous means you believe those who don't agree with you have by calling them prudes all the time. Or, even better, I apologize for not being offended by nudity in video games, but finding them rather pointless in the grand scheme of things and not a big enough deal worth getting heavily invested in.

If making a rational and logcial deduction from the facts provided makes me ridiculous, I don't see how you plan on persuading anyone who may use their head in this matter, and not a gut feeling towarsd one side or the others. Because I don't know if you noticed this or not, but most of the people posting don't actually care one way or the other, so your overexageration of those who don't agree with you into caricatures and fabricating talking points for them to make you seem like you've somehow outwitted them isn't helping anyone, least of all your cause.

[cjones91]

JSlither wrote...

If there's a ****house that we visit for whatever reason I wanna see some nekkidniss.

Any nudity in the game should be done with taste and good reason. I have no interest in pornography in my DA. There's enough of it in my hard drive >:]

Nudity is not porn!You have seen yourself naked thousands of times during your life just like everyone else,so does that mean everyone is involved in some world wide porno?No it does'nt.

Modifié par cjones91, 26 septembre 2013 - 10:24 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

cjones91 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Translation: We're too afraid of the backlash from Fox News and others to not cater to prudes.

Right, because Bioware's view on the LGBT group totally falls in line with Fox news.  I forgot about that.

True,but they seem afraid to show nudity just like other game devs and it's because of the ME1 Faux News uproar.

If you really think that, than I pity you and your deluded view on the power a single throw away story on fox news has.

Alot of idiots watch Fox News...the same time type of idiots that make a uproar about any time nudity in games.And quite frankly I was simply making a observation so save the condescending attitude for someone else because I'm not deluded.

Than don't post like a deluded person. It's the easiest way to not be condescended to.

How was my post deluded?It's a simple fact Bioware got some heat from Fox News over the ME1 Femshep/Liara sex scene and that may have contributed to them being squemish in regards to adding nudity in their games.

Except there wasn't actually any nudity involved. An ass shot and some bear skin, oh my that's so much naughty bits. <_<

People seem to act like bioware put hardcore full frontals in their games and only stopped whem fox news got wind of it, but than when you actually see the mass effect romance scenes from the previous games, most of it is done with a fade to blacks and angles that don't show anything, which is less than what actual nudity is.

And the reason that ME1 had these types of scenes, and DAO didn't, did come down to 2 different development teams working on two different projects. Hell, the DA team even barrowed this technique in making the DA2 scenes, the fade to black sequences, which than people complained about. And did those added mature scenes actuall add anything to the game? Not really, nothing a previous fade to black or pan away wouldn't have accomplished.

I don't see how bioware was any more open to nudity in the past than it is now.

[Cainhurst Crow]

cjones91 wrote...

JSlither wrote...

If there's a ****house that we visit for whatever reason I wanna see some nekkidniss.

Any nudity in the game should be done with taste and good reason. I have no interest in pornography in my DA. There's enough of it in my hard drive >:]

Nudity is not porn!You have seen yourself naked thousands of times during your life just like everyone else,so does that mean everyone is involved in some world wide porno?No it does'nt.

But where else would be a place to see appropriate nudity than an establishement that has you paying others for fornication? Presumably, they'd want you to inspect the goods to know what your buying, or not, depending on the legitimacy of the establishment.

Either you need to have nudity in sexual settings, as it is appropriate, or you don't, which calls into question the nudity in other scenes. Why the denial over this?

[cjones91]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Translation: We're too afraid of the backlash from Fox News and others to not cater to prudes.

Right, because Bioware's view on the LGBT group totally falls in line with Fox news.  I forgot about that.

True,but they seem afraid to show nudity just like other game devs and it's because of the ME1 Faux News uproar.

If you really think that, than I pity you and your deluded view on the power a single throw away story on fox news has.

Alot of idiots watch Fox News...the same time type of idiots that make a uproar about any time nudity in games.And quite frankly I was simply making a observation so save the condescending attitude for someone else because I'm not deluded.

Than don't post like a deluded person. It's the easiest way to not be condescended to.

How was my post deluded?It's a simple fact Bioware got some heat from Fox News over the ME1 Femshep/Liara sex scene and that may have contributed to them being squemish in regards to adding nudity in their games.

Except there wasn't actually any nudity involved. An ass shot and some bear skin, oh my that's so much naughty bits. <_<

People seem to act like bioware put hardcore full frontals in their games and only stopped whem fox news got wind of it, but than when you actually see the mass effect romance scenes from the previous games, most of it is done with a fade to blacks and angles that don't show anything, which is less than what actual nudity is.

And the reason that ME1 had these types of scenes, and DAO didn't, did come down to 2 different development teams working on two different projects. Hell, the DA team even barrowed this technique in making the DA2 scenes, the fade to black sequences, which than people complained about. And did those added mature scenes actuall add anything to the game? Not really, nothing a previous fade to black or pan away wouldn't have accomplished.

I don't see how bioware was any more open to nudity in the past than it is now.

The point is Bioware does'nt want any heat from the prudish idiots that are still in control of America,Fix News called ME1 a sex simulator and just like every one of their stories they did'nt check the facts.Bioware is wary of attracting the ire of the idiot prudish masses and so they put in sex scenes with characters doing it in their underwear.

As for you last point..the DA series is a mature game,that means gore,violence,blood,strong language and sometimes even nudity.

[Former_Fiend]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

JSlither wrote...

If there's a ****house that we visit for whatever reason I wanna see some nekkidniss.

Any nudity in the game should be done with taste and good reason. I have no interest in pornography in my DA. There's enough of it in my hard drive >:]

Nudity is not porn!You have seen yourself naked thousands of times during your life just like everyone else,so does that mean everyone is involved in some world wide porno?No it does'nt.

But where else would be a place to see appropriate nudity than an establishement that has you paying others for fornication? Presumably, they'd want you to inspect the goods to know what your buying, or not, depending on the legitimacy of the establishment.

Either you need to have nudity in sexual settings, as it is appropriate, or you don't, which calls into question the nudity in other scenes. Why the denial over this?

Why should "need" really enter into it? Just because you don't "need" something doesn't mean it's inclusion is detrimental. 

Again, I'm not saying "include it just to include it". But there's more than the two options. 

I don't think the inclusion of nudity in any of the DA2 romance scenes would have been detrimental or gratituitous. Unnecessary,  yes; the scenes are fine without nudity. But they'd have been fine with it, as well.