312 réponses à ce sujet

[EricHVela]

I don't want to out-right kill Tallis, but I do want the option of failing to keep her alive (or so we might think).

I would like that for many characters, actually. I loathe plot-armor. I feel a loss of accomplishment when I cannot fail at something.

[Lithuasil]

She's a spy, assassin and fully unrepentant sleeper-agent for the absolute worst enemy the free people of middle ear... Thedas. And the protagonist of DA3 is going to be a high ranking member of the inquisition of the chantry. If any character in all of thedas has motivation to have Tallis tortured and killed, that's this very Inquisitor.
So yes - leave her out, but if you absolutely have to include this travesty to good writing again, please for the love of the maker allow us to do what hawke should have done, and any inquisitor would do.

[syllogi]

Bfler wrote...

Reidbynature wrote...

I never played any of the DA2 DLC. Was Tallis really that bad?

No, but many people don't like the real person and therefore the fictional char must be bad. 
In my opinion, she is actually quite funny.

If you read this thread, there are plenty of people who enjoy Felicia Day's other work, but don't like the character of Tallis.

If you don't think it's right to let a spy go free with information that could help a qunari invasion, wanting a chance to kill Tallis, or at least fight her to get back her list at the end of MotA makes sense.

If you don't agree with Tallis's philosophy regarding the Qun (and honestly, based on everything else we have heard from and about the qunari, her take on it sounds confused), disliking that we can't at least debate with her about it is natural.

And if you just don't like the fact that Tallis lies to Hawke in order to get what she wants, again, it is natural to at least not want to have to deal with her again, although I think killing her is a bit extreme.

[Sylvianus]

In any case, I will kill Tallis if she is still working for the Qunari and if I am not railroaded into a qunari agenda as well.

[Rinji the Bearded]

David Gaider wrote...

Johnny20 wrote...
Wow, lighten up a little. Don't take things so personally. While the OP wasn't very eloquent in his request, not all people like all characters. :/

There's no reason to read into my tone. I actually think it's funny.

And, for the record, there have been people who have hated characters-- for one reason or another-- dating all the way back to Jaheira and Imoen. The fact that characters get some hate isn't a strike against them. I've long-maintained it's better than apathy, and I've never encountered a reason to change that opinion.

This exactly.  I've always maintained that any character that causes an emotional reaction is a good character, no matter what kind of emotion it might be.    Chances are if you want to reach into the screen and strangle them, it's a sign of a good character.  Most of the "I WANT TO KILL ____" threads seem to be about characters that some players feel are... forced upon them (Tallis, Liara, and Leliana being the most prominent in my head right now), and I'm just wondering how they feel about the people in their lives (if applicable)?

[Iakus]

David Gaider wrote...

I wouldn't worry about it. Chances are pretty slim that I'd put a character in the game solely because some psychopath on the forums demanded they be there in order to be murdered. Chances are far better, in fact, that such advocacy would entice me to include them and make them unkillable.

Actually, that's a lie. It wouldn't sway me, regardless. It's amusing they seem to think it might, however.

So Leliana's safe from psychopathic players.  That's a relief

Of course, that just leaves the psychopathic writers...

[Rinji the Bearded]

Why are these "Let's kill ____" threads more often than not about female characters, for that matter?

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 18 septembre 2012 - 03:35 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

Why are these "Let's kill ____" threads about female characters, for that matter?

Because nobody cares enough to want Sebastian dead?

[crimzontearz]

To Mr. Gaider

As a lead developer, when the public gives feedback on the lines of "this character and the plot armor given to her given the circumstances and her motives has left me/my character feeling like an idiot and swearing revenge" as opposed to "her bewbs are too big
...she needs to die a horrible painful death but only after her family and loved ones are slowly burned alive in front of her eyes" would it not be a wise idea at least to consider it? Not for anything but sometimes giving the chance to act upon legitimate feelings of frustration and resentment has nothing to do with being psychotic killers.

Just saying, as you know I did not play DA2

[Rinji the Bearded]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Why are these "Let's kill ____" threads about female characters, for that matter?

Because nobody cares enough to want Sebastian dead?

I'm just not seeing a lot of "Let's kill Varric!" or "Let's kill Sebastian!"  or "Let's kill Vega!"  or "Let's kill Javik!"

An observation really, I'd love for someone to tell me otherwise.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 18 septembre 2012 - 03:41 .

[Wulfram]

David Gaider wrote...

And, for the record, there have been people who have hated characters-- for one reason or another-- dating all the way back to Jaheira and Imoen. The fact that characters get some hate isn't a strike against them. I've long-maintained it's better than apathy, and I've never encountered a reason to change that opinion.

Depends what that hatred is motivated by, surely.

If the hatred comes from their personality or ideology, that's one thing.  Tallis gets a fair amount of dislike from this, and that's good

But if it comes from terrible voice acting, that wouldn't be good, surely?  Not an issue in this case IMO, but it can be, particularly in games from companies with less quality in that area than Bioware.

And if it comes from frustration because the PC is forced to act grossly out of character, I can't see that's good either.  And that's very much in play - Hawke potentially has every reason, personal, political, moral and religious, to wish to foil her plans but is instead forced to simply allow her to leave.  The frustration that creates is not the sign of a job done well.

[addiction21]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Why are these "Let's kill ____" threads about female characters, for that matter?

Because nobody cares enough to want Sebastian dead?

Of course I would be first in line to kick Irenicus's teeth in again if possible.

[Rinji the Bearded]

crimzontearz wrote...

To Mr. Gaider

As a lead developer, when the public gives feedback on the lines of "this character and the plot armor given to her given the circumstances and her motives has left me/my character feeling like an idiot and swearing revenge" as opposed to "her bewbs are too big
...she needs to die a horrible painful death but only after her family and loved ones are slowly burned alive in front of her eyes" would it not be a wise idea at least to consider it? Not for anything but sometimes giving the chance to act upon legitimate feelings of frustration and resentment has nothing to do with being psychotic killers.

Just saying, as you know I did not play DA2

I don't feel like they need to listen to the minority of people who wish to inflict harm/death upon a fictional character.  Maybe they like to see you squirm uncomfortably?

[Wulfram]

RinjiRenee wrote...

I'm just not seeing a lot of "Let's kill Varric!" or "Let's kill Sebastian!"  or "Let's kill Vega!"  or "Let's kill Javik!"

An observation really, I'd love for someone to tell me otherwise.

There was a bunch of "I enjoyed killing Anders" threads though.

And there have been threads where people wished they could have killed Sebastian.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Wulfram wrote...

There was a bunch of "I enjoyed killing Anders" threads though.

And there have been threads where people wished they could have killed Sebastian.

Killing Anders made sense for many reasons.   I don't believe Tallis, Leliana, or Liara did anything but exist or "annoy" some people.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 18 septembre 2012 - 03:45 .

[upsettingshorts]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Why are these "Let's kill ____" threads about female characters, for that matter?

Because nobody cares enough to want Sebastian dead?

I'm just not seeing a lot of "Let's kill Varric!" or "Let's kill Sebastian!"  or "Let's kill Vega!"  or "Let's kill Javik!"

An observation really, I'd love for someone to tell me otherwise.

The equivalent - using the term loosely - for male characters is "they're whiny," the implication being they are less than entirely manly, which of course, given how gender dynamics unfortunately work in society is "about right" when compared to killing a woman.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 septembre 2012 - 03:45 .

[Iakus]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

There was a bunch of "I enjoyed killing Anders" threads though.

And there have been threads where people wished they could have killed Sebastian.

Killing Anders made sense for many reasons.   I don't believe Tallis, Leliana, or Liara did anything but exist or "annoy" some people.

Well, Tallis at the end of MoTA did something that annoyed me.  But not worth killing over...

[Sylvanpyxie]

I don't believe Leliana did anything but exist or "annoy" some people.

Well, Leliana kind of tried to kill me and died as a result. The only reason I want her dead is for the sake of continuity, which I believe is a fair reason.

Tallis, however, is a Hawke problem. Despite her manipulations and the inability to kill her, Hawke is no longer the protagonist, so if Tallis were to return there would be very little reason to want her dead, unless Players hold onto that grudge.

That being said, as I stated on Page 2, a Mage has a justifiable reason to want Tallis dead - Her loyalty to the Qun and the Qun's stance on Mages.

addiction21 said: Bu dum tsh

Well, that made my day.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:01 .

[berelinde]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Why are these "Let's kill ____" threads about female characters, for that matter?

Because nobody cares enough to want Sebastian dead?

I'm just not seeing a lot of "Let's kill Varric!" or "Let's kill Sebastian!"  or "Let's kill Vega!"  or "Let's kill Javik!"

An observation really, I'd love for someone to tell me otherwise.

There are ~500 "I loved killing Anders!" posts per day, mostly based on the "He's whiny" justification, not the plot one. Fenris is killable. Alistair is killable. Loghain is killable. Sten is killable. Zevran is killable. Nathaniel is killable. Carver is killable. Oghren is just waiting for the cirrhosis to kick in. There have been plenty of "Let's kill Sebastian" threads. Nobody in their right mind wants to kill Varric.

My point is that most male characters are already killable. There is no need to ask for the option because it's already there. Of the female companions, how many are killable? Er... none. Well, Leliana, but she gets over it. One might argue that plot armor offers better protection to female characters. Why should gender equality not extend to video game mortality?

[crimzontearz]

RinjiRenee wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

To Mr. Gaider

As a lead developer, when the public gives feedback on the lines of "this character and the plot armor given to her given the circumstances and her motives has left me/my character feeling like an idiot and swearing revenge" as opposed to "her bewbs are too big
...she needs to die a horrible painful death but only after her family and loved ones are slowly burned alive in front of her eyes" would it not be a wise idea at least to consider it? Not for anything but sometimes giving the chance to act upon legitimate feelings of frustration and resentment has nothing to do with being psychotic killers.

Just saying, as you know I did not play DA2

I don't feel like they need to listen to the minority of people who wish to inflict harm/death upon a fictional character.  Maybe they like to see you squirm uncomfortably?

watch me squirm? I never played DA2....


 
I am just saying, besides you are playing the role of a character who might very well want revenge in a society in which such a thing is completely acceptable and the norm (the DA verse)...so why not if there is enough feedback?

Modifié par crimzontearz, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:04 .

[Emzamination]

Didn't know Ted Bundy played Dragon age.

[EricHVela]

What would make me squirm is knowing that the character's survival depends on my actions, not plot-armor.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:04 .

[Wulfram]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Killing Anders made sense for many reasons.   I don't believe Tallis, Leliana, or Liara did anything but exist or "annoy" some people.

Tallis turned the PC into her patsy, placing their life in severe danger and turning them into a tool that aids the conquest and enslavement of Thedas.  She's a willing agent of a power that destroys the minds of anyone who resists enslavement, routinely mutilates mages and, for that bit of personal spice, attempted to murder the PC.

Leliana and Liara you've got more of a point, though Leliana did potentially try to kill the PC.

Fundamentally, I don't think there are many male NPCs with the same degree of prominence and plot armour/ret con as Leliara.  Varric maybe, but he was very likable and never really stood up to the PC.

If Alistair ever turns up as the canon King of Fereldan, there'll be a hell of a lot of "I need to kill Alistair!" threads.

[Sylvianus]

I think that Merril and Aveline can be killed if you choose the wrong side at the end of DAII, and if you have for example 50 % rivalry and 50 % friendship. Not enought either way in other words.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:12 .

[Huntress]

David Gaider wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...
Good gravy another one of these "LET'S KILL _____" threads?

Why are you guys so obsessed with killing fictional characters? Jeez.

I wouldn't worry about it. Chances are pretty slim that I'd put a character in the game solely because some psychopath on the forums demanded they be there in order to be murdered. Chances are far better, in fact, that such advocacy would entice me to include them and make them unkillable.

Actually, that's a lie. It wouldn't sway me, regardless. It's amusing they seem to think it might, however.

But someone already wrote an unkillable character.. his name is Sebastian.. gosh I never hated a charcter this much.. Maybe if  hawke was able to kill him, he would have been in the same category as Loghain but now I loathe Sebastian.
meh.. isn't that something to be proud of?