312 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Sylvianus wrote...

I think that Merril and Aveline can be killed if you choose the wrong side at the end of DAII, and if you have for example 50 % rivalry and 50 % friendship. Not enought either way in other words.

Merrill yes

I believe Aveline gets this instead

Modifié par Wulfram, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:11 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

David Gaider wrote...

I wouldn't worry about it. Chances are pretty slim that I'd put a character in the game solely because some psychopath on the forums demanded they be there in order to be murdered. Chances are far better, in fact, that such advocacy would entice me to include them and make them unkillable.

Actually, that's a lie. It wouldn't sway me, regardless. It's amusing they seem to think it might, however.

:lol:

Those times where you wish the signature space was a bit larger...

[jackofalltrades456]

Sylvianus wrote...

I think that Merril and Aveline can be killed if you choose the wrong side at the end of DAII, and if you have for example 50 % rivalry and 50 % friendship. Not enought either way in other words.

Aveline can never be killed, she'll only leave your party for good if you side with the mages. Merril will only turn on you if you side with the templar with low approval and ignored her side quest. Even with that, they could still get rerecruited if you ask them later on.

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:15 .

[syllogi]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

There was a bunch of "I enjoyed killing Anders" threads though.

And there have been threads where people wished they could have killed Sebastian.

Killing Anders made sense for many reasons.   I don't believe Tallis, Leliana, or Liara did anything but exist or "annoy" some people.

At least in Tallis's case, letting her go at the end of MotA can be seen as grossly out of character, and even morally objectionable, depending how strongly you feel about it.  After doing the end of Act 2, I personally cannot imagine playing a Hawke who is cool with Tallis taking that list and prancing away, and a fight with her would have been appreciated...even if she does somehow get away.  The point would have been to allow my character to have firmly held beliefs that she would express.

Making my character just take the jewel and D'AWW over Tallis's ridiculous cutesy "got my nose" crap, when she's actually walking away with information that could spark a religious war and kill many, isn't particularly enjoyable to me.

Do I enjoy killing characters for no reason?  No.  But if you give me a legitimate, story based reason to dislike a character, and morally object to her behavior to the point that I would fight her over it, I would like to be able to act upon that.

[Sylvianus]

Wulfram wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

I think that Merril and Aveline can be killed if you choose the wrong side at the end of DAII, and if you have for example 50 % rivalry and 50 % friendship. Not enought either way in other words.

Merrill yes

I believe Aveline gets this instead

Ah yes, you're right.

[Battlebloodmage]

Huntress wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...
Good gravy another one of these "LET'S KILL _____" threads?

Why are you guys so obsessed with killing fictional characters? Jeez.

I wouldn't worry about it. Chances are pretty slim that I'd put a character in the game solely because some psychopath on the forums demanded they be there in order to be murdered. Chances are far better, in fact, that such advocacy would entice me to include them and make them unkillable.

Actually, that's a lie. It wouldn't sway me, regardless. It's amusing they seem to think it might, however.

But someone already wrote an unkillable character.. his name is Sebastian.. gosh I never hated a charcter this much.. Maybe if  hawke was able to kill him, he would have been in the same category as Loghain but now I loathe Sebastian.
meh.. isn't that something to be proud of?

He's my least favorite male, my all-time dislike is Diana Allers though.

[Sylvanpyxie]

In terms of Plot Armour - In the Dragon Age series there's really only two people that're truly wearing it, and that's Sebastian and Tallis.

Also, Huntress - His character design has a great deal of hypocrisy thrown into it, I would be surprised if the writers weren't proud of the hate that he's received because of it, considering how little content he actually had as a companion.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:33 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

berelinde wrote...
There are ~500 "I loved killing Anders!" posts per day, mostly based on the "He's whiny" justification, not the plot one. Fenris is killable. Alistair is killable. Loghain is killable. Sten is killable. Zevran is killable. Nathaniel is killable. Carver is killable. Oghren is just waiting for the cirrhosis to kick in. There have been plenty of "Let's kill Sebastian" threads. Nobody in their right mind wants to kill Varric.

My point is that most male characters are already killable. There is no need to ask for the option because it's already there. Of the female companions, how many are killable? Er... none. Well, Leliana, but she gets over it. One might argue that plot armor offers better protection to female characters. Why should gender equality not extend to video game mortality?

So you're saying that this is a gender equality issue now...?    We must make more killable female characters because of those poor persecuted men, half of which tried to kill the PC in the first place?  Carver doesn't count really, either, because you don't actively try to kill him and, hello, Bethany can die just the same way.

Wow.   Just.  Wow.

[jackofalltrades456]

Sebastian was an extremely forgettable character for me. I couldn't even remember his name at one point. XD

[David Gaider]

Wulfram wrote...
Depends what that hatred is motivated by, surely.

Not really. People come up with stupid reasons to justify their dislikes all the time-- myself included. On the Internet, it's rather hard to tell whether someone is just being an ass, whether they have sufficient self-awareness to discern the reasons for their own dislike or whether that dislike is really as intense as it would seem from their post. Take your average 3-page venom-filled rant about a game... someone responds with "wow, well if you hate it so much why are you even here?" and they say "no, I really like the game those are just the parts I didn't like."

So it's good they feel enough about it at all to speak... but I don't trust their stated reasons any more than I would trust someone to discern how I personally feel about Battlestar Galactica based solely on hearing me rant about the ending (for the record: I love the series, but you wouldn't know that if you heard my rant). If we took everything negative as gospel, I'm pretty sure we would never do anything.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

David Gaider wrote...

And, for the record, there have been people who have hated characters-- for one reason or another-- dating all the way back to Jaheira and Imoen. The fact that characters get some hate isn't a strike against them. I've long-maintained it's better than apathy, and I've never encountered a reason to change that opinion.

WTF.  WTF.  OMG, WTF.  Who in hell would hate Jaheira!!!!  Four Exclamation Marks!!!  Four More!!!  She was my sis-bro before being a bro was like being a pony.  WTF.

Now, back to Tallis?  I want to kill her because I hate the qun.

[BubbleDncr]

At this point, after my initial rage has quelled, the only reason I want to kill Tallis is because my Hawke would have killed her at the end of MoTA, but could not, for no reason other than plot shield protection.

As such, she is a representation of a role playing game not allowing you to do things you want to do, and thus killing player agency.

So that's why I want to kill her.

[Joryn01]

Awww I like Tallis. Now Cullen on the other hand. He needs to die in a fire.

[Rinji the Bearded]

BubbleDncr wrote...

At this point, after my initial rage has quelled, the only reason I want to kill Tallis is because my Hawke would have killed her at the end of MoTA, but could not, for no reason other than plot shield protection.

As such, she is a representation of a role playing game not allowing you to do things you want to do, and thus killing player agency.

So that's why I want to kill her.

So the obvious solution to this problem is to let you kill characters for meta reasons?

Go take your frustrations out on Skyrim.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:25 .

[Beerfish]

After the last book Leliana is in the kill zone as well for me. However I'll have to play the game as I should, not knowing about some of her actions.

[Battlebloodmage]

Joryn01 wrote...

Awww I like Tallis. Now Cullen on the other hand. He needs to die in a fire.

Edward Cullen, yes. Templar Cullen, Hell to the naw.

[Androme]

 I'm a psychopath and I want to kill all Qunari!

[berelinde]

RinjiRenee wrote...

berelinde wrote...
There are ~500 "I loved killing Anders!" posts per day, mostly based on the "He's whiny" justification, not the plot one. Fenris is killable. Alistair is killable. Loghain is killable. Sten is killable. Zevran is killable. Nathaniel is killable. Carver is killable. Oghren is just waiting for the cirrhosis to kick in. There have been plenty of "Let's kill Sebastian" threads. Nobody in their right mind wants to kill Varric.

My point is that most male characters are already killable. There is no need to ask for the option because it's already there. Of the female companions, how many are killable? Er... none. Well, Leliana, but she gets over it. One might argue that plot armor offers better protection to female characters. Why should gender equality not extend to video game mortality?

So you're saying that this is a gender equality issue now...?    We must make more killable female characters because of those poor persecuted men, half of which tried to kill the PC in the first place?  Carver doesn't count really, either, because you don't actively try to kill him and, hello, Bethany can die just the same way.

Wow.   Just.  Wow.

And you totally miss the point. 

I don't like plot armor for *anyone* male or female. If there is a plot-related reason for them to die, they should be killable. As it happens, there are plot-relavant reasons to kill Tallis, Leliana, and a number of other female characters, just as there are plot-relevant reasons to kill Anders, Alistair, etc. It's just that Tallis, Leliana, etc. have very, very thick plot armor.

Would I kill Tallis if there was an option? Depends on the Hawke. Some would take issue with her getting away with her list of names. How about the protagonist in DA3? I hope she isn't there at all, but if she is, it would depend on what she's done. 

Would I kill Leliana if there was an option? Does leaving her in Lothering count? I do regret that it didn't prevent her appearance in future games, but that ship sailed. Can I forsee a plot reason to kill Leliana in the future? Absolutely. As a chantry zealot, I imagine a lot of protagonists might want her gone.

[Sylvianus]

It's simple. All my characters are anti- qun and consider the Qunari as dangerous for Thedas. Anyone who tries to help their agenda, I'll try to stop him. Tallis is a spy. I don't see what's so difficult to understand.

I am with the lovely Petrice and I hope I'll see her again, since she's still alive in my game. =)

Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:30 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

berelinde wrote...

And you totally miss the point. 

I don't like plot armor for *anyone* male or female. If there is a plot-related reason for them to die, they should be killable. As it happens, there are plot-relavant reasons to kill Tallis, Leliana, and a number of other female characters, just as there are plot-relevant reasons to kill Anders, Alistair, etc. It's just that Tallis, Leliana, etc. have very, very thick plot armor.

Would I kill Tallis if there was an option? Depends on the Hawke. Some would take issue with her getting away with her list of names. How about the protagonist in DA3? I hope she isn't there at all, but if she is, it would depend on what she's done. 

Would I kill Leliana if there was an option? Does leaving her in Lothering count? I do regret that it didn't prevent her appearance in future games, but that ship sailed. Can I forsee a plot reason to kill Leliana in the future? Absolutely. As a chantry zealot, I imagine a lot of protagonists might want her gone.

I will advocate someone saying "I wish i could have killed this person because my character would have done so." Making female characters killable simply because they have this mythical plot armor you speak of  or that there's too many killable male characters is another issue altogether.  Varric has plot armor.  That doesn't make me mad.  Why should plot armor make me mad?  They are needed for the story for whatever reason.  That's not for me to decide.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:33 .

[BubbleDncr]

RinjiRenee wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

At this point, after my initial rage has quelled, the only reason I want to kill Tallis is because my Hawke would have killed her at the end of MoTA, but could not, for no reason other than plot shield protection.

As such, she is a representation of a role playing game not allowing you to do things you want to do, and thus killing player agency.

So that's why I want to kill her.

So the obvious solution to this problem is to let you kill characters for meta reasons?

Go take your frustrations out on Skyrim.

I wanted to kill her at the end of DA2 because that's what Hawke would have done.

I want the option to kill her in in DA3, should she show up, to make up for that. Yes, that's meta. Not saying I'll definately kill her though.

Perhaps if she plays a different role in DA3 that makes my DA3 protagonist feel indebted to her or something, then my DA3 character may choose not to kill her. But if she plays a similar role there that she did in MoTA, unless somehow my character ended up being pro-qunari, I don't see why I wouldn't want the option to kill her as well.

[GreyLycanTrope]

I'm going to have to say no OP.

[Uccio]

Yes please. My mage wanted seriously to burn her to ashes being a qunari zealot but for some reason was not able to do so.

[EricHVela]

I guess the best way to put it is: I don't want to be able to kill Tallis. I want to be able to save her.