312 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoncloud]

I didnt dislike the Felicia cameo, the Chobot cameo was just silly and plain waste of money.

On the other hand however i would prefer money to go to oh i dont know propper content instead of small cameos that probably cost more.

[TorulfAmell]

syllogi wrote...

Felicia Day is charming and cute and funny, but Tallis was incredibly annoying. Just please stay away from "celebrity guest stars" in DA3. And "gaming journalists" fall in this category. Just no.

Celebrity voice actors in BW have worked quite well so far. Can you imagine Mass Effect without Seth Green and Lance Henriksen? Sure, they are both experienced voice actors, but what about the godly Martin Sheen who provided one of the best voice preformances in the entire series? Or if you're only talking guest stars, we still have, for example, Adam Baldwin.

[Sylvanpyxie]

Just please stay away from "celebrity guest stars" in DA3.

Strange - I always thought that Keith David and Seth Green were the single greatest VAs in the Mass Effect franchise.... I also think Alec Newman did an exceptionally good job with Sebastian in Dragon Age 2.

"Celebrity Guest Stars" work exceptionally well, they just need to be good actors.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:48 .

[berelinde]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Just please stay away from "celebrity guest stars" in DA3.

Strange - I always thought that Keith David and Seth Green were the single greatest VAs in the Mass Effect franchise.... I also think Alec Newman did an exceptionally good job with Sebastian in Dragon Age 2.

"Celebrity Guest Stars" work exceptionally well, they just need to be good actors.

Don't follow ME, but I'm betting that the characters' faces were not modeled on Keith David or Seth Green.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I would rather not see too close an association between the VA and the face model. It's acting, not self-insert fanfic.

[ev76]

Well i want Tallis in da3 I thought she was a great character! However the new da3 character will have to judge her based on actions he has uncovered or actions taken by her within da3.

[Cultist]

Actually I was surprised to find that Tallis was voiced by some cellebrity and looked at Facebook announcements about Felicia Day as some kind of gathering, like BioWare Gaming Day or such)
Nevertheless i think hating or disliking character because s\\he was played\\voiced by someone you don't like is wrong. You opinion should be based on character alone.
So part of my dislike is due to plot-armor. I felt cheated at the end of MotA.
But initially, I wished to kill her due to roleplaying reasons - qunari is the main threat to mages.
As for celebrity guest stars - I never ever heared a complaint about Malcolm McDowell's involvement in Fallout series.

Modifié par Cultist, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:56 .

[TheRealJayDee]

syllogi wrote...

Felicia Day is charming and cute and funny, but Tallis was incredibly annoying. Just please stay away from "celebrity guest stars" in DA3. And "gaming journalists" fall in this category. Just no.

Aye!

[Rinji the Bearded]

berelinde wrote...

]Don't follow ME, but I'm betting that the characters' faces were not modeled on Keith David or Seth Green.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I would rather not see too close an association between the VA and the face model. It's acting, not self-insert fanfic.

... But, acting is precisely what they're doing.  I'm not defending Diana Allers or anything, but if the developers want to use so-and-so's voice and face for a character?  It'd be just like hiring an actor for a film.    You're under the impression that Felicia Day was put into the game as self-insert fanfic, which is absolutely false.  And I don't think Chobot necessarily asked to be put in the game, either.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:58 .

[FINE HERE]

David Gaider wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
Depends what that hatred is motivated by, surely.

Not really. People come up with stupid reasons to justify their dislikes all the time-- myself included. On the Internet, it's rather hard to tell whether someone is just being an ass, whether they have sufficient self-awareness to discern the reasons for their own dislike or whether that dislike is really as intense as it would seem from their post. Take your average 3-page venom-filled rant about a game... someone responds with "wow, well if you hate it so much why are you even here?" and they say "no, I really like the game those are just the parts I didn't like."

So it's good they feel enough about it at all to speak... but I don't trust their stated reasons any more than I would trust someone to discern how I personally feel about Battlestar Galactica based solely on hearing me rant about the ending (for the record: I love the series, but you wouldn't know that if you heard my rant). If we took everything negative as gospel, I'm pretty sure we would never do anything.

Can I defend myself then? Because I was just called a psychopath in an earlier post, and that was rather... extreme.
I said nothing about not liking or wanting to hurt an actual living person. I don't mind Felicia Day, and in fact, I didn't even know who she was before MotA.
As for not liking Tallis and wanting to kill the character, it's because we were forced to let her go and forced to help her. Tallis wasn't as great a character as I was expecting. She was meant to be perfect but she went against everything that Sten told me about the Qunari. "Women are priests, artisans, shopkeepers, or farmers. They don't fight." And yet: Tallis. Why is she fighting? Shouldn't she not fight? Even if she's a priest, she's fighting. I don't get that. I'd understand a little more if her reasoning for it was: 'I'll go against the Qun to defend everyone who believes it' or 'no one else is doing anything, so I will.' Wouldn't others in the Qun stop that guy? And for an assassin priest or whatever she is, she sure hates killing people- oh no, wait, she had no problem killing the crows in her opening scene.
It also made no sense why my Hawke, as a mage, would have tolerated her for longer than one second after she insults my mage companion for not wanting his mouth sewn shut. She pretty much wanted Mage Hawke bound in chains, what would motivate them to help her? You could only abandon her or help her, which ends the same way really. The entire MotA dlc didn't make sense to me, and it didn't have a satisfying conclusion for characters who where either pro-mage or anti-qunari.
If Tallis is going to be in DA3, at least give the option to ignore her, let us oppose her, and/or kill her.

[Rinji the Bearded]

FINE HERE wrote...

Can I defend myself then? Because I was just called a psychopath in an earlier post, and that was rather... extreme.
I said nothing about not liking or wanting to hurt an actual living person. I don't mind Felicia Day, and in fact, I didn't even know who she was before MotA.
As for not liking Tallis and wanting to kill the character, it's because we were forced to let her go and forced to help her. Tallis wasn't as great a character as I was expecting. She was meant to be perfect but she went against everything that Sten told me about the Qunari. "Women are priests, artisans, shopkeepers, or farmers. They don't fight." And yet: Tallis. Why is she fighting? Shouldn't she not fight? Even if she's a priest, she's fighting. I don't get that. I'd understand a little more if her reasoning for it was: 'I'll go against the Qun to defend everyone who believes it' or 'no one else is doing anything, so I will.' Wouldn't others in the Qun stop that guy? And for an assassin priest or whatever she is, she sure hates killing people- oh no, wait, she had no problem killing the crows in her opening scene.
It also made no sense why my Hawke, as a mage, would have tolerated her for longer than one second after she insults my mage companion for not wanting his mouth sewn shut. She pretty much wanted Mage Hawke bound in chains, what would motivate them to help her? You could only abandon her or help her, which ends the same way really. The entire MotA dlc didn't make sense to me, and it didn't have a satisfying conclusion for characters who where either pro-mage or anti-qunari.
If Tallis is going to be in DA3, at least give the option to ignore her, let us oppose her, and/or kill her.

My Hawke had low self esteem and anti-dwarf and was very upset he never got the chance to off Varric for being a smart-mouth know-it-all jerk, who was a dwarf on top of all that.    Cannot kill him.  Rage ensues.

oh wait he might be important to the story i guess, for reasons that i may not understand yet

there goes that plot armor defense you had going

Not to mention there are some other characters in the game who are much more anti-mage than Tallis and you don't get a chance to kill them either, how about those guys?   Were you mad when Cullen stood there and called you different and you couldn't pull out the murder knife?  Aveline thinks mages should be kept under watch.  So does much of Thedas.  Why stop at Tallis?

(oh my gosh i invented reasons to kill varric, the unthinkable has apparently happened)

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 18 septembre 2012 - 05:11 .

[Wulfram]

David Gaider wrote...

Not really. People come up with stupid reasons to justify their dislikes all the time-- myself included. On the Internet, it's rather hard to tell whether someone is just being an ass, whether they have sufficient self-awareness to discern the reasons for their own dislike or whether that dislike is really as intense as it would seem from their post. Take your average 3-page venom-filled rant about a game... someone responds with "wow, well if you hate it so much why are you even here?" and they say "no, I really like the game those are just the parts I didn't like."

So it's good they feel enough about it at all to speak... but I don't trust their stated reasons any more than I would trust someone to discern how I personally feel about Battlestar Galactica based solely on hearing me rant about the ending (for the record: I love the series, but you wouldn't know that if you heard my rant). If we took everything negative as gospel, I'm pretty sure we would never do anything.

Well, it probably says something good about the game that they're motivated to post.  And of course any feedback needs to be sensibly interpreted rather than necessarily taken at face value.

But I do think it can be true that a particular character, or aspect of that character, is causing a great deal of annoyance and internet rage particularly because they're dragging down an otherwise good game.  And feeling forced to take a point of view on a character that opposes your own opinions really does cause annoyance.

Modifié par Wulfram, 18 septembre 2012 - 05:09 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

I'm betting that the characters' faces were not modeled on Keith David or Seth Green.

You'd lose your money on that bet.

The characters in question, Joker and Anderson, are at least roughly modeled on their voice actors (Though, tbh, Joker is 100% Seth Green). Miranda Lawson, another character in the series, is also modeled on her voice actress, who is equally exceptional at her job.

Does it really matter if the VA comes from a Celebrity A List or not? Does it matter if their faces are used to model the character? If they're good at the job it really shouldn't matter in the least.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 18 septembre 2012 - 05:12 .

[FINE HERE]

RinjiRenee wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...

Can I defend myself then? Because I was just called a psychopath in an earlier post, and that was rather... extreme.
I said nothing about not liking or wanting to hurt an actual living person. I don't mind Felicia Day, and in fact, I didn't even know who she was before MotA.
As for not liking Tallis and wanting to kill the character, it's because we were forced to let her go and forced to help her. Tallis wasn't as great a character as I was expecting. She was meant to be perfect but she went against everything that Sten told me about the Qunari. "Women are priests, artisans, shopkeepers, or farmers. They don't fight." And yet: Tallis. Why is she fighting? Shouldn't she not fight? Even if she's a priest, she's fighting. I don't get that. I'd understand a little more if her reasoning for it was: 'I'll go against the Qun to defend everyone who believes it' or 'no one else is doing anything, so I will.' Wouldn't others in the Qun stop that guy? And for an assassin priest or whatever she is, she sure hates killing people- oh no, wait, she had no problem killing the crows in her opening scene.
It also made no sense why my Hawke, as a mage, would have tolerated her for longer than one second after she insults my mage companion for not wanting his mouth sewn shut. She pretty much wanted Mage Hawke bound in chains, what would motivate them to help her? You could only abandon her or help her, which ends the same way really. The entire MotA dlc didn't make sense to me, and it didn't have a satisfying conclusion for characters who where either pro-mage or anti-qunari.
If Tallis is going to be in DA3, at least give the option to ignore her, let us oppose her, and/or kill her.

My Hawke had low self esteem and anti-dwarf and was very upset he never got the chance to off Varric for being a smart-mouth know-it-all jerk, who was a dwarf on top of all that.    Cannot kill him.  Rage ensues.

oh wait he might be important to the story i guess, for reasons that i may not understand yet

there goes that plot armor defense you had going

Not to mention there are some other characters in the game who are much more anti-mage than Tallis and you don't get a chance to kill them either, how about those guys?   Were you mad when Cullen stood there and called you different and you couldn't pull out the murder knife?  Aveline thinks mages should be kept under watch.  So does much of Thedas.

(oh my gosh i invented reasons to kill varric, the unthinkable has apparently happened)

Point taken. I'm not sure why I didn't care much about Cullen, though... And Aveline also trusted me a lot even though I was a mage... Huh... 
...
...
...
I think Tallis was the only person that bothered me about because I was helping her and the Qun, without any consent from me other than not playing the DLC. I didn't help Cullen with much though, or many of the other templars.

Also, how did you manage a low self-esteem Hawke? All I could make was a nice guy/girl, a smart mouth and an aggressive jerk...

[Dutchess]

Bfler wrote...

Reidbynature wrote...

I never played any of the DA2 DLC. Was Tallis really that bad?

No, but many people don't like the real person and therefore the fictional char must be bad. 
In my opinion, she is actually quite funny.

I had never heard of Felicia Day before and I thought Tallis was awful.

[Rinji the Bearded]

FINE HERE wrote...
Point taken. I'm not sure why I didn't care much about Cullen, though... And Aveline also trusted me a lot even though I was a mage... Huh... 
...
...
...
I think Tallis was the only person that bothered me about because I was helping her and the Qun, without any consent from me other than not playing the DLC. I didn't help Cullen with much though, or many of the other templars.

Also, how did you manage a low self-esteem Hawke? All I could make was a nice guy/girl, a smart mouth and an aggressive jerk...

Point was that people can invent reasons to justify anything.  Roleplaying is sometimes the most convenient excuse.

[Lithuasil]

David Gaider wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
Depends what that hatred is motivated by, surely.

Not really. People come up with stupid reasons to justify their dislikes all the time-- myself included. On the Internet, it's rather hard to tell whether someone is just being an ass, whether they have sufficient self-awareness to discern the reasons for their own dislike or whether that dislike is really as intense as it would seem from their post. Take your average 3-page venom-filled rant about a game... someone responds with "wow, well if you hate it so much why are you even here?" and they say "no, I really like the game those are just the parts I didn't like."

So it's good they feel enough about it at all to speak... but I don't trust their stated reasons any more than I would trust someone to discern how I personally feel about Battlestar Galactica based solely on hearing me rant about the ending (for the record: I love the series, but you wouldn't know that if you heard my rant). If we took everything negative as gospel, I'm pretty sure we would never do anything.

Point is, people aren't soo keen on seing Tallis die because she was an awful person. That's just the motivation a DA3 character would have.
We do not feel so strongly because of the way she was written, however questionable I might personally find that, but because the way she was handled ripped right through any suspension of disbilief, and any sense of immersion in an otherwise very immersive and personal game.
She's the literal equivalent of having a character call the PC stupid for half an hour, only to have the PC (totally out of the players control) go "oh great wise one, allow me to bask in your wisdom".
I know I probably won't hear any comments on the way she was handled from a bioware employee, but take this hatred for what it is. If you feel the need to bring back this character, or introduce a new character with an agenda so outlandish or controversial, that most characters will have no choice but to oppose them - Allow us to actually oppose that person. Don't repeat the mistakes of MotA, and make the player an american soldier willingly handing the door-codes of the white-house to an al-quaida suicide bomber. 

[syllogi]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Just please stay away from "celebrity guest stars" in DA3.

Strange - I always thought that Keith David and Seth Green were the single greatest VAs in the Mass Effect franchise.... I also think Alec Newman did an exceptionally good job with Sebastian in Dragon Age 2.

"Celebrity Guest Stars" work exceptionally well, they just need to be good actors.

But while the ME games were proud of having celebrity VAs, even to the point of having trailers with interviews with them, I don't think that the games were marketed as "starring" those people, with their faces, and the games definitely did not make Shepard into a sidekick for those characters.

Tallis is the star of MotA.  She wins the day, no matter what.  MotA is also an ad for Felicia Day's DA webseries, which is another thing we never saw with the ME voice actors.

As for Alec Newman, I think he's great, but I don't recall any marketing for DA that played up the fact that he was Sebastian's voice actor, even in the Exiled Prince trailer.

And I personally don't really care if a voice actor has done movies and television, I'd rather know that they were the best candidate for the role, rather than a gimmick hire.

[Sharn01]

David Gaider wrote...


There's no reason to read into my tone. I actually think it's funny.

And, for the record, there have been people who have hated characters-- for one reason or another-- dating all the way back to Jaheira and Imoen. The fact that characters get some hate isn't a strike against them. I've long-maintained it's better than apathy, and I've never encountered a reason to change that opinion.

I think there is a difference in why someone hates a character.  If I hate a character because my character or I have very conflicting personalities, that is a good thing that adds to the story.  If I hate a character because they kill my suspension of disbelief or because my character is consistently forced to act in a manner I do not want them to act in their presence, then its not a good thing.

Tallis and Jacob are both examples of characters that consistently forced the PC to act in a certain way in their presence.  This is also one of the reasons the line of hatred is so divided, if a players character is not acting inconsistently for them its not a big deal, but for those that are, and for Jacob in particular it was a majority, its infuriating.  Infuriating in a, I dont want to play this game or at least avoid this character for the rest of the game kind of way, not infuriating as in, man I hate this guy kind of way.

Modifié par Sharn01, 18 septembre 2012 - 05:34 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

Tallis is the star of MotA. She wins the day, no matter what.

Oh, don't me wrong. I'm not disputing the entire Tallis thing. I disliked MotA(and Tallis to a greater degree) for a number of reasons.

The Protagonist Mantle was very much stripped from the player and handed over to Tallis for that entire story and that was such a dramatic change from the entire rest of the game that I felt completely disconnected from Tallis as a character and the entire story of MotA.

I just don't understand why people are using Felicia Day as an example of why "Celebrity A Listers" make bad VAs or as an excuse to hate Tallis.

If people dislike Miss.Day's voice acting abilities then that's one thing, but saying that the "bad quality" of Tallis is because of the "Celebrity Status" of the VA? It's just plain silly.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 18 septembre 2012 - 05:34 .

[Rawgrim]

She annoyed the heck out of me too. Why go through all that time sneaking through the castle, when she plainly has the ability to jump straight over the castle anyway? She leaps 50 feet backwards and up, from a position where she is standing still. She was too much of an anime hero for my tastes. Her neck was rather....well, it was 4 times longer than anyone elses neck. Felt like she was a cartoon character copied and pasted into the game.

Now I wouldn`t want to kill her, but I deffinatly don`t want her forced into my party in DA3 (that goes for all possible companions). I want to decide for myself who my friends and allies are.

[Provi-dance]

FINE HERE wrote...
Can I defend myself then? Because I was just called a psychopath in an earlier post, and that was rather... extreme.

Take it with a laugh. He's a bit insecure so he lashes out for a variety of reasons.


And of course, wanting to kill a video game character... in a game where you're forced to kill hundreds of other humans, elves and whatnot is so totally psychopathic.

[Dave of Canada]

Hated Tallis overall but from my main character's perspective (sided with Petrice against the Qunari), they were plenty of reasons for me to want and kill her and take the scroll for myself and the writers only hand-waived that away with Tallis saying "lolno" and Hawke standing down.

It was a bit insulting, really.

(On my my non-Petrice playthrough, my Hawke was fine with her.)

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 18 septembre 2012 - 06:07 .

[Luckywallace]

I think a better way to put it is "don't rail-road us into helping characters we don't like and would want to kill".

I mostly liked MotA but when I ditched on Tallis at the end it really annoyed me that I ended up helping her anyway 'accidently'. Boo! Hiss!

[Joryn01]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Joryn01 wrote...

Awww I like Tallis. Now Cullen on the other hand. He needs to die in a fire.

Edward Cullen, yes. Templar Cullen, Hell to the naw.

Not sure who Edward Cullen is but the Templar Cullen? Yes. He must die. I must break him.

[Renmiri1]

Joryn01 wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Joryn01 wrote...

Awww I like Tallis. Now Cullen on the other hand. He needs to die in a fire.

Edward Cullen, yes. Templar Cullen, Hell to the naw.

Not sure who Edward Cullen is but the Templar Cullen? Yes. He must die. I must break him.

Where have you been living ?  Under a rock ? Is there space under there for me ?  I have been trying to forget the Twilight saga and it's emo sparkly vampires that don't melt with sunlight ever existed!!!

Cullen and Tallis are fine.

I like her character. I would like it if we were able to deprogram her from the Qun. She would be a killer agent for the Inquisition