312 réponses à ce sujet

[Kenshen]

Haven't read this entire thread but my answer is NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Loves me some Tallis.

[Welsh Inferno]

What is it with you and these "kill the characters I don't like!" threads?

[cindercatz]

I like Tallis.. I hope she shows up, maybe even as a companion.
And Felicia Day is one heck of an indie media success story. I admire her.

[berelinde]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

What is it with you and these "kill the characters I don't like!" threads?

He's like that.

Seriously, though, depending on your Hawke's priorities and where he or she was in the story, allowing her to complete her quest and walk out alive was... problematic. A lot of Hawkes probably wanted to prevent that by any means necessary, but they couldn't due to plot armor. Very frustrating.

I'm not saying this out of dislike of the character. I do not like her, but that makes me want to never see her again, not kill her.

[Rawgrim]

I felt Talis was bigtime immersion breaking. Thats why i wouldn`t mind getting rid of her.

[cindercatz]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

Personally, I like Ms. Day as an actress and have enjoyed all her work, includingTallis.

However, where I can somewhat agree with some posters is that MOTA removed player agency in allowing a dangerous spy from a hostile power to escape with vital information - and there was nothing my character could do about it. While I personally did not want to kill her, I could easily see why some characters would have done so - and I think it was a mistake to make her "plot proof."

I suspect that someone wanted to leave the option open to bringing her back in some future DLC or something so prevented what should have been, in game context, a reasonable action.

The same thing happened with Flemeth, Morrigan and Leliana and personally, I don't like it. If the writers set up a situation where someone ought to be killed, that person ought to die. If they want that character to play some important, future role, then create a believable reason why you can't kill them. I do not think the way Tallis was handled was believable.

And one final comment; please, do not put Ms. Day in the same category as that "person" in ME3. Felicia Day is a talented, professional actress with a solid resume of respectable acting credits. You may not have liked the character, but there was nothing wrong with her performance.

I personally don't think companions should be killable at all, unless there's a compelling story reason to do so, and then it's permanent. I do, however, think the player should have the option to try when the story presents a reason. It's just that they should try and fail.

[Dino]

I'm so glad that David Gaider is writing this story, and not you OP.

[Darimaru]

GPjessica73 wrote...

:unsure:maybe I shouldn't say I wouldn't mind Tallis as a full time party member

optional, of course, you can pull a Zevran if you like, you awful people

I agree with you.  I liked Tallis a lot and I'm amazed that so many people don't.

[Izhalezan]

I found a Tallis, may we burn her?

[Darimaru]

cindercatz wrote...

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

Personally, I like Ms. Day as an actress and have enjoyed all her work, includingTallis.

However, where I can somewhat agree with some posters is that MOTA removed player agency in allowing a dangerous spy from a hostile power to escape with vital information - and there was nothing my character could do about it. While I personally did not want to kill her, I could easily see why some characters would have done so - and I think it was a mistake to make her "plot proof."

I suspect that someone wanted to leave the option open to bringing her back in some future DLC or something so prevented what should have been, in game context, a reasonable action.

The same thing happened with Flemeth, Morrigan and Leliana and personally, I don't like it. If the writers set up a situation where someone ought to be killed, that person ought to die. If they want that character to play some important, future role, then create a believable reason why you can't kill them. I do not think the way Tallis was handled was believable.

And one final comment; please, do not put Ms. Day in the same category as that "person" in ME3. Felicia Day is a talented, professional actress with a solid resume of respectable acting credits. You may not have liked the character, but there was nothing wrong with her performance.

I personally don't think companions should be killable at all, unless there's a compelling story reason to do so, and then it's permanent. I do, however, think the player should have the option to try when the story presents a reason. It's just that they should try and fail.

I hated in Origins when you'd make a decision an end up having to kill one of your favorite party members. 
That said, i think the fact that we can is good...freedom is alomot always good

[Ophir147]

David Gaider wrote...

Not really. People come up with stupid reasons to justify their dislikes all the time-- myself included. On the Internet, it's rather hard to tell whether someone is just being an ass, whether they have sufficient self-awareness to discern the reasons for their own dislike or whether that dislike is really as intense as it would seem from their post.

I do realize that there is a considerable developer bias in favor of Tallis, and the desire to leave her alive to at least continue her involvement in the story. I've read a lot of posts in this thread, and while some I would agree with, I can also see how it would be easy to label the all people that want her to die as bloodthirsty lunatics, and the last thing you'd want to do is to let people think that they can bend the narrative to their will just because they want a specific character dead.

I personally liked Tallis as a character. I found her to be surprisingly complex and interesting, and the fact that she presents a unique perspective on the Qun (the most interesting and novel aspect of the DA world, in my opinion) makes for a very good character on paper. However, considering her actions as well as those of the philosophy she represents, I have a hard time believing that I couldn't actually kill her.

I'm trying to avoid unnecessary spoilers, but I'm sure that we all know what Tallis' task was, and the moral implications of said task. It also doesn't help that the Dragon Age games have a proud tradition of allowing the player to make the choices, and you've let us kill people for far kinder acts. I personally love moments in game when I am allowed to be judge, jury, and executioner. The choice in the matter makes me feel better about my act of mercy, or even my ability to be proactive in eliminating a threat for the greater good of the world.

I can understand why there is a lot of confusion about why people actually want to kill Tallis, but, having pondered the consequences of her death, I also realize that there is very good potential in the character to keep the Qun ingrained within the storyline, as well as create interesting conflict in future games.

While I can't say I speak for everyone here, I would like to say, continue with the character. Keep using her as a catalyst to brew up more plot. Develop her more throughout the series, and give the new protagonists a chance to form an opinion of her. But when you're done with her, when you've exhausted the narrative potential of the character, and you don't plan on using her again, don't just let her ride off into the sunset, with no reckoning at all for her mistakes. Let us decide her fate. 

...and that's all i have to say, about tha-t.

[TEWR]

I still would like Bioware to at least come out and admit that their "anti-Qunari" ending was a craptastic one that didn't in fact listen to the negative complaints made about Hawke in the base game.

Seriously, MotA came out how long ago? And not a peep on how the anti-Qunari ending was a failure in writing?

A failure in the sense that Hawke doesn't legitimately attempt to get the scroll, as I personally like Tallis -- aside from a few lines of hers which seem too... un-Thedosian and more like modern speech -- and don't think she should've died.

I'd be fine if she still managed to have the scroll so long as Hawke legitimately attempted to get the damn thing and failed.

EDIT: Well, not want. More like I'd like it, as it'd certainly make me a tad more hopeful for DA3 if Bioware admitted that, in MotA, they dun' goofed.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:28 .

[rpgfan321]

;_;

Such comments make me sad.

[CitizenThom]

David Gaider wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...
Good gravy another one of these "LET'S KILL _____" threads?

Why are you guys so obsessed with killing fictional characters? Jeez.

I wouldn't worry about it. Chances are pretty slim that I'd put a character in the game solely because some psychopath on the forums demanded they be there in order to be murdered. Chances are far better, in fact, that such advocacy would entice me to include them and make them unkillable.

Actually, that's a lie. It wouldn't sway me, regardless. It's amusing they seem to think it might, however.

I remember posters being put in Baldurs Gate 2 so they could be killed though...

[Fidget6]

I've never gotten the Tallis hate at all. I thought she was quite charming.

Modifié par Fidget6, 19 septembre 2012 - 04:19 .

[Reaverwind]

Rawgrim wrote...

I felt Talis was bigtime immersion breaking. Thats why i wouldn`t mind getting rid of her.

If she's forced on us in DA3, then the option to get rid of her needs to be there.

[cindercatz]

Darimaru wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

I personally don't think companions should be killable at all, unless there's a compelling story reason to do so, and then it's permanent. I do, however, think the player should have the option to try when the story presents a reason. It's just that they should try and fail.

I hated in Origins when you'd make a decision an end up having to kill one of your favorite party members. 
That said, i think the fact that we can is good...freedom is alomot always good

I didn't have any problem with the option in Origins, but considering the resources required to bring characters back, and the potential for those quality characters to become major recurring characters, I'd rather the option result in failure unless BioWare has already determined that character is never coming back. The result is the same for the particular game. You still have the falling out, you still lose the character, you can still face off against them. They just don't set themselves up for retcon. If there's a major decision that really will be respected in future (assuming like Alistair here, haven't played what happens if you execute him yet), then allow it then, or if it's a pre-scripted death that's a major part of the story. Otherwise, I wish they'd shy away from deaths that are at all likely to just result in later resurrections, like Leli's, Oghren's, Morrigan's, etc. Better to save that character for later stories, and let the player have their decision to try, and make an enemy in the process. Let them be wounded and escape, rather than faux killed.

[Kulyok]

Captain Obvious here: rationally, having a choice is always better than not having one, i.e. if only we had a choice to betray/kill Tallis or burn/steal her documents(out of dislike for her, to prevent Qunari spying on our lands, or for reasons unknown), then there would probably be much fewer frustrated players.

But killing Tallis in DA3 would take too many resources: asking the actress to come and record new lines, create a model, come up with a cameo, and so on, and so forth. These resources could be spent on a new romance, an interesting quest, or fruitlessly killing Leliana again, if that's your thing. Why not just forget her?

(Besides, the actress was quite good in the last season of Supernatural, but maybe that's just me).

[Little Princess Peach]

David Gaider wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...
Good gravy another one of these "LET'S KILL _____" threads?

Why are you guys so obsessed with killing fictional characters? Jeez.

I wouldn't worry about it. Chances are pretty slim that I'd put a character in the game solely because some psychopath on the forums demanded they be there in order to be murdered. Chances are far better, in fact, that such advocacy would entice me to include them and make them unkillable.

Actually, that's a lie. It wouldn't sway me, regardless. It's amusing they seem to think it might, however.

Thank the maker we have dev's that protect these poor npc's.
but really I would like to at least have the option to slap someone in da3

[Provi-dance]

CitizenThom wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I wouldn't worry about it. Chances are pretty slim that I'd put a character in the game solely because some psychopath on the forums demanded they be there in order to be murdered. Chances are far better, in fact, that such advocacy would entice me to include them and make them unkillable.

Actually, that's a lie. It wouldn't sway me, regardless. It's amusing they seem to think it might, however.

I remember posters being put in Baldurs Gate 2 so they could be killed though...

Oh, you're right... so we have a case of psychological projection here.

[Conquerthecity]

 Using Felicia Day's likeness and voice felt like some sort of cheap gimmick to try and appeal to the nerd crowd or whatever and that's why I dislike Tallis. It also broke immersion for me too, since all i kept thinking through the entire DLC was "Oh, Felicia Day." 

Though I still can't bring myself to kill characters I don't like, I support the option for those who want it. 

[AsheraII]

David Gaider wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
Depends what that hatred is motivated by, surely.

Not really. People come up with stupid reasons to justify their dislikes all the time-- myself included. On the Internet, it's rather hard to tell whether someone is just being an ass, whether they have sufficient self-awareness to discern the reasons for their own dislike or whether that dislike is really as intense as it would seem from their post. Take your average 3-page venom-filled rant about a game... someone responds with "wow, well if you hate it so much why are you even here?" and they say "no, I really like the game those are just the parts I didn't like."

So it's good they feel enough about it at all to speak... but I don't trust their stated reasons any more than I would trust someone to discern how I personally feel about Battlestar Galactica based solely on hearing me rant about the ending (for the record: I love the series, but you wouldn't know that if you heard my rant). If we took everything negative as gospel, I'm pretty sure we would never do anything.

Excelent example! I loved watching BG , got the whole DVD collection, but there were definitely weaknesses in its story, especially certain episodes. Some characters were extremely likable, others were extremely hatable. But that's what helped the whole series going. I hated the copout on Baltars' Cylon-detector. But the thing simply HAD to be written off, or the series would've ended with season 2 already, with half the cast dead and the Cylon threat nullified. And don't even get me started on the ending.. While badly written, the idea of the original series with the Galactica crew and Cylons fighting a secret war on modern earth was definitely appealing, I definitely preferred that over the pre-hystoric ending of the new series. Oh, and I hated Thighs' wife to bits. Her character simply didn't make any sense within the series as a whole, completely useless! But somehow she did keep the story going.

But, all that doesn't ruin the series to me. Just like ME3 isn't ruined to me by the lousy character of James Vega, nor by its ending which simply isn't as good as the rest of the series (though I'm the last to say that the endings were bad, since they were not, they were just less good). Same with Jaheira, same with Tallis. They keep the story going. You may not like their characters, you may even hate their means to keep things going, but they're there and definitely serve their purpose.

And the game is not set in the stone age, our characters aren't primals who kill whoever on a whim, so sometimes, we may be forced to live with people we hate.

[Uccio]

Dessalines wrote...

I didnt think Tallis look liked Felicia Day, and I don't want to kill Tallis. It seems to me that the reason that people want to kill is because
1)She was created by Felicia Day.
2)Bioware promoted that Felicia Day was going to be in the game
3)People felt that Mark of Assasin was just a vehicle for Felicia Day.
4)Her voice acting was not good.
5)Her character was annoying, and you were forced to be friends with her.
Honestly, I never heard of Felicia Day before Dragon Age, but I also never heard of Jessica Chobol either before Mass Effect, so I guess I have different perspective.
If you add the fact the thread is not have as a party member, but kill the character, I think there are some deep psychologicial problems there. If you add the fact that Jessica Merizan is person that seems to attacked a lot, I kinda get the feeling that some gamer are guys leaving in their mom's basement.

Well atleast for me 1 - 4 are unimportant and not true.

Point 5 is the actual reason why is disliked the character. I´ve allways played with a rebellious freedom loving mage and when I am forced to help a qunari zealot who aproves seving mages mouth is a big no no for me. Therefore I was annoyed as heck when I noticed that there was nothing I can do about Tallis, only to be her lap dog and do her bidding.

[Arcadian Legend]

Never got the obsession with wanting to kill off characters you don't like.

[Dave of Canada]

Fidget6 wrote...

I've never gotten the Tallis hate at all. I thought she was quite charming.

Dismissing the whole Felicia Day aspect, were you anti-Qunari? Did you try at all to threaten her or try to kill her for the scroll? How'd you feel when Hawke suddenly doesn't do anything, allowing plot-armored Tallis to walk away?

She creates heavy feelings, especially if you're not fine with her walking away with the scroll. The whole Felicia Day aspect just adds more to those feelings and then you've got a character which I'd like to not see ever again but undoubtedly will due to the writers loving her.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 19 septembre 2012 - 11:00 .