He's been asleep for over a thousand years. How much would you trust your memory after that long?Prior to Corypheus it could have been attributed to Tevinter religion warping. Upon hearing Corypheus speak of seeking the golden light himself, we have an eyewitness speaking directly from experience. His credibility cannot be questioned in this instance.
Mage+Inquisition=?
Débuté par
Olorin_85
, sept. 18 2012 08:39
#301
Posté 21 septembre 2012 - 03:35
Xilizhra
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Retour en haut
#302
Posté 21 septembre 2012 - 03:43
Olmerto
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Xilizhra wrote...
He's been asleep for over a thousand years. How much would you trust your memory after that long?Prior to Corypheus it could have been attributed to Tevinter religion warping. Upon hearing Corypheus speak of seeking the golden light himself, we have an eyewitness speaking directly from experience. His credibility cannot be questioned in this instance.
It's what lawyers call the "excited utterance" exception to the hearsay rule. He was entombed for some extended period of time. As soon as he's brought to, he starts emptying his consciousness of the things that were foremost in his mind before he "went under". Because he's excited and in some confusion, he doesn't have the capacity to concoct a lie or express anything but his true sentiments. Therefore his statements are given a high degree of credibility. Had he been awake all this time and been able to contemplate his experiences, his statements would be less credible.
Modifié par Olmert, 21 septembre 2012 - 04:55 .
#303
Posté 21 septembre 2012 - 03:45
Xilizhra
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I didn't say that he's lying, but I wouldn't say he's definitely remembering things accurately.
#304
Posté 21 septembre 2012 - 03:50
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Corypheus also said that the city was already black when they entered it
#305
Posté 21 septembre 2012 - 04:56
Olmerto
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Renmiri1 wrote...
Corypheus also said that the city was already black when they entered it
*facepalm*
#306
Posté 21 septembre 2012 - 05:00
Vandicus
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Olmert wrote...
Renmiri1 wrote...
Corypheus also said that the city was already black when they entered it
*facepalm*
What can you do, some people won't read it no matter how many times its reiterated.
I agree that Corypheus is highly credible, it is hard to believe that he'd be able to lie under such circumstances, or that he'd even be interested in doing so. I also believe that his statements imply knowledge that the city as viewed from afar in the Fade was indeed golden. Unfortunately we only derive this by implication. It is not impossible that Corypheus's impressions of a Golden City were due to Dumat's influence. The evidence, while carrying weight, is not entirely conclusive.
#307
Posté 21 septembre 2012 - 06:19
Olmerto
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I can definitely envision a scenario where Dumat had a hand in "camouflaging" the Black City with "golden light" as a way to get the magisters to enter it. And if so, it would make sense that Dumat perhaps knew of the consequences of entering the city. It's one of a number of interesting possibilities.
For now, though, I'm content just to take away that the magisters did attempt to enter what they thought was a city of golden light, that it turned out to be black upon their arrival, and that it left them tainted and corrupt "darkspawn".
(Edit: And that's a lot more information than we had prior to Corypheus!)
For now, though, I'm content just to take away that the magisters did attempt to enter what they thought was a city of golden light, that it turned out to be black upon their arrival, and that it left them tainted and corrupt "darkspawn".
(Edit: And that's a lot more information than we had prior to Corypheus!)
Modifié par Olmert, 21 septembre 2012 - 06:24 .
#308
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 21 septembre 2012 - 06:32
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I doubt they'd put a revelation like that into Legacy and then just say 'his memory was fuzzy, sorry lol.'
#309
Guest_Rojahar_*
Posté 21 septembre 2012 - 06:40
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Filament wrote...
I doubt they'd put a revelation like that into Legacy and then just say 'his memory was fuzzy, sorry lol.'
Nothing in DA2 happened. Varric was just making the whole thing up. And the scenes between Cassandra and himself were part of a story he was telling to someone else. A story within a story... within a story. Varric is that meta.
Modifié par Rojahar, 21 septembre 2012 - 06:40 .
#310
Posté 21 septembre 2012 - 07:24
SamaraDraven
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I think... the Maker's a lie. There's a legend of the Avvar lords, there is a short codex entry on them and I'll have to find it but I recall reading it. There were nine. There were nine Elvhen gods. But there are seven Old Gods according to the Chantry? I think there were nine deities and one fashioned himself into the "Maker" while the others vied for the devotion of the elves and Tevinter magisters in the guise of dragon lords and the Elvhen pantheon. Thus a conflict between all the "gods" arose. I think the Golden City was a myth. "It was supposed to be golden..." What if everyone simply believed it was but had never seen it? What if it was a ruse? Or if it was, the Maker wasn't exactly a good kind of god just because his home was golden. So many of the tales of he and the gods are about selfish or self-serving acts on that deity's part.
Since the religion of the Maker conflicted with the elves' beliefs, there was the exhalted march, a tidy way for the "Maker" to destroy a rival by taking out her - or his - flock. While he was busy with that, the Old Gods were seducing their most ambitious magisters to march on the "Golden City". Maybe it was Golden after all and the Old Gods knew that merely breaching its gates would ruin it and did so to strike against their rival god? Maybe it was a lie or trick and was never golden but only appeared so on the outside? Perhaps, it was a myth all along... At any rate, it turned black or was always black - it was a black city. Another thought I have is that the city was a place where all the gods once resided but as they grew ambitious and fought over it, the gods were tricked by the "Maker" and locked out. That really resembles the elves' tale about their gods as well about how they were tricked and locked away. Ever since, the gods have been trying to retake the city and used their faithful magisters to do it.
In retribution, the Maker cursed those magisters... unless it was a natural consequence of crossing the threshold into the city? I wonder if the "Maker" cursed them just to spite the Old Gods? Perhaps he thought that he'd destroy their faithful adherents? What he hadn't counted on was the Taint spreading the way it did, even to his own religious adherents. Another thing that I think might have been possible, is that a battle was waged in the Golden/Black City and they were all sealed away, the Maker included. Or maybe he just ran off to hide once the city was destroyed because one of the Old Gods/Avaar/Elvhen gods hadn't been put away and is still trying to thwart him?
Given the way Flemeth talks, I've often wondered if she is one of the ancient gods. Perhaps she is the last remaining Old God and is still trying to free her kin? The Maker and his curse have been turned into a weapon. If the Old Gods are hiding or were locked away, the Maker now has the cursed people, the Darkspawn, searching them out and tainting them. Thus they're destroyed by the "Maker's children". I mean, somehow someway his believers discovered how to kill the tainted gods. Somehow, he heard Andraste and helped her wage war on the Tevinter Imperium. These are things that strike me as the sort of card a devious deity would play. And until he has the love of all the world, the Maker won't come back? How neat for him that his people would take care of his enemies for him to have him back! Just a taaaad selfish, if you ask me.
My last thought is that maybe the Maker was real and there were also nine other lesser gods. They destroyed the Maker and took over, with one trying to play off as the "Maker".
There are not enough answers and too much propaganda and it could have all really gone down another way than what the Chantry says. The victor is often the one who gets to write history, remember?
Ok. I think I'm done pontificating now.
Since the religion of the Maker conflicted with the elves' beliefs, there was the exhalted march, a tidy way for the "Maker" to destroy a rival by taking out her - or his - flock. While he was busy with that, the Old Gods were seducing their most ambitious magisters to march on the "Golden City". Maybe it was Golden after all and the Old Gods knew that merely breaching its gates would ruin it and did so to strike against their rival god? Maybe it was a lie or trick and was never golden but only appeared so on the outside? Perhaps, it was a myth all along... At any rate, it turned black or was always black - it was a black city. Another thought I have is that the city was a place where all the gods once resided but as they grew ambitious and fought over it, the gods were tricked by the "Maker" and locked out. That really resembles the elves' tale about their gods as well about how they were tricked and locked away. Ever since, the gods have been trying to retake the city and used their faithful magisters to do it.
In retribution, the Maker cursed those magisters... unless it was a natural consequence of crossing the threshold into the city? I wonder if the "Maker" cursed them just to spite the Old Gods? Perhaps he thought that he'd destroy their faithful adherents? What he hadn't counted on was the Taint spreading the way it did, even to his own religious adherents. Another thing that I think might have been possible, is that a battle was waged in the Golden/Black City and they were all sealed away, the Maker included. Or maybe he just ran off to hide once the city was destroyed because one of the Old Gods/Avaar/Elvhen gods hadn't been put away and is still trying to thwart him?
Given the way Flemeth talks, I've often wondered if she is one of the ancient gods. Perhaps she is the last remaining Old God and is still trying to free her kin? The Maker and his curse have been turned into a weapon. If the Old Gods are hiding or were locked away, the Maker now has the cursed people, the Darkspawn, searching them out and tainting them. Thus they're destroyed by the "Maker's children". I mean, somehow someway his believers discovered how to kill the tainted gods. Somehow, he heard Andraste and helped her wage war on the Tevinter Imperium. These are things that strike me as the sort of card a devious deity would play. And until he has the love of all the world, the Maker won't come back? How neat for him that his people would take care of his enemies for him to have him back! Just a taaaad selfish, if you ask me.
My last thought is that maybe the Maker was real and there were also nine other lesser gods. They destroyed the Maker and took over, with one trying to play off as the "Maker".
There are not enough answers and too much propaganda and it could have all really gone down another way than what the Chantry says. The victor is often the one who gets to write history, remember?
Ok. I think I'm done pontificating now.
Modifié par SamaraDraven, 21 septembre 2012 - 07:29 .
#311
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 12:03
LobselVith8
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Vandicus wrote...
The Inquisition was not founded by Drakon or the Chantry. The organization existed autonamously some point before they became the Templars. They were clearly not Old God worshippers because they hunted Old God worshippers. There is no evidence to suggest they worshipped Andraste before Drakon converted them. Their founding mission statement does not suggest a religious affiliation.
Hunting down cultists and heretics does suggest that. If they were simply hunting down Tevinter mages, there would be no need to address they hunted down cultists and heretics.
We disagree, as usual. I do find the concept strange. Being a member of a group that is named after a historical gathering of mage hunters who lead a "reign of terror" seems like an odd choice for a mage protagonist.Vandicus wrote...
In other words, until they joined with the Chantry there is no evidence whatsoever to support their existence as a religious organization. Speculation that they were religious prior to this event is baseless(lacking in evidence).
We don't even know when they were founded, besides "after the First Blight". What if they were founded before Andraste? If they were founded after Andraste its still unclear whether they worshipped Andraste until talking to Drakon.
#312
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 01:12
TEWR
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Vandicus wrote...
In other words, until they joined with the Chantry there is no evidence whatsoever to support their existence as a religious organization. Speculation that they were religious prior to this event is baseless(lacking in evidence).
I distinctly recall something -- either a WoG quote or something from one of the other forms of DA associated stuff -- that said they were, in fact, worshippers of the Maker and Andraste, even before the Chantry was officially formed.
#313
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 01:22
Vandicus
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Vandicus wrote...
In other words, until they joined with the Chantry there is no evidence whatsoever to support their existence as a religious organization. Speculation that they were religious prior to this event is baseless(lacking in evidence).
I distinctly recall something -- either a WoG quote or something from one of the other forms of DA associated stuff -- that said they were, in fact, worshippers of the Maker and Andraste, even before the Chantry was officially formed.
That would be a strong indicator if it can be established that the Inquisition is a faith-based organization. Just don't want people flipping out over wild speculation. If only we had an actual time for the Inquisition's founding and Andraste's birth/death. I find it very annoying how hard it is to place major world events in the DA timeline.
#314
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 01:57
TEWR
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[quote]Olmert wrote...
I still think that you and others draw all the wrong inferences from Corypheus's words.[/quote]
You can think that, but I feel there's far more evidence to say the City was Black before their invasion then that it became Black as a result of it.
[quote]
First, what you've quoted is not the operative phrase from Corypheus, but let's look at it anyway:[/quote]
Unless I'm misunderstanding your use of the word operative, I'd like to point out that those two sentences are word for word what he says.
Well, with the minor exclusion of "The City!" in front of the "It was supposed to be Golden..." segment.
[quote]
"It was supposed to be Golden! It was supposed to be ours!" This phrase doesn't dispel the Chantry account.[/quote]
I'm not saying it does. I am saying however, that it creates a reasonable level of doubt on the veracity of the story. It all comes down to who you want to believe more: the person who actually did the deed or the people who merely wrote a tale about the deed, centuries after it happened.
Me? Well, I'll lean towards the former.
[quote]
If it turned black on the magisters, then they indeed would say that "it was supposed to be golden".[/quote]
They'd also say "We saw the golden light vanish before our eyes, replaced by darkness."
[quote]Do you believe they intentionally travelled to a black city?[/quote]
Certainly, that was never in contention. Their reasons for doing so, however, are not what the Chantry claims. The Chantry claims they wanted to usurp the power of the Maker for themselves.
In reality, they were offered false promises by Dumat -- or someone pretending to be Dumat, possibly Fen'Harel -- where they were promised the power of the Old Gods.
[quote] You can see the city from the fade, whether its golden or black. It's implicit that when they embarked to the city, it was golden, but when they arrived it was black.[/quote]
Indeed. What they viewed was a shining fortress city radiating a valiant golden aura. What they saw was a ruined and decadent city filled with naught but despair and darkness.
This, however, doesn't prove that they tainted it with their being there. Or even with anything they did. All it proves is that it was Golden to their eyes when they weren't there and Black before them when they were.
Which, as we're discussing, has a few different interpretations as to the truth of the matter.
[quote]
This confirms that when they embarked for the city, it was the "golden light". When they arrived, they found it black. If the magisters embarked for a golden city, but upon arrival it turned black, what would you expect them to say? They were never in the city while it was gold, because for some reason it turned black between the time they departed and the moment of their arrival. We don't know why it might have turned black, but if there's one thing that's clear it's that it was gold when they departed -- or else they'd never have gone -- and black when they arrived.[/quote]
It only appeared golden to them. There isn't any proof that it was actually Golden on the inside.
[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
But that doesn't mean the Chantry account of the magisters travelling to the Golden City and causing it to turn black isn't true.[/quote]
It doesn't mean they're right either. If they were exaggerating one detail, how do we know what else hasn't been "fluffed" to the point of being nothing but hot air.
[quote]
It likely wasn't the Maker who cursed them and turned the city black, but it was some reaction or phenomenon that did it. Corypheus confirms the existence of a golden city; that's what the magisters were striving for. The golden light was the very reason they travelled there in the first place. Why it was black upon their arrival is unknown, and that's ALL you can take from Corypheus.[/quote]
His statements imply that it was never Golden. If this was a wrong interpretation, then I'm sure some of the devs would've said "Nope. Uh-uh, sorry".
All you can take from what he says is that it appeared Golden. There's nothing to indicate it was ever golden on the inside. Only that it was golden on the outside.
[quote]Corypheus doesn't confirm anything about the Maker's existence or Andrasteism. By the same token it doesn't dispel the account of the Golden City turning black upon the arrival of the magisters. It pretty much confirms that.[/quote]
You can't confirm that it turned black because of them. All you can take from his statements is that it appeared Golden on the outside and was corrupt on the inside.
That does not, however, suggest that its defilement was because of him.
[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Okay, maybe I wasn't too clear on this: The "event" I've been talking about is the existence of a Golden City and it turning black upon the arrival of the magisters. That part of the Chantry account seems verified.[/quote]
You can't confirm it based on what was said. Again, all that's definitively known is that it seemed Golden on the outside and was black on the inside.
Using an Andrastian's beliefs to confirm an Andrastian tale is... pretty silly.
[quote]
I'm not making this argument to bolster the authenticity of the Chantry, I'm just verifying the nature of the lore supplied by Corypheus, and saying that for some reason there was a city exuding golden light, and while it was still golden the magisters travelled there and found it black upon their arrival. [/quote]
Which, again, doesn't point to them having been the reason for its corruption.
[quote]
And, we also could gather that the magisters (as represented by Corypheus) were thereby tainted and were the first darkspawn because we could see Corypheus for ourselves and how he appeared corrupted and transformed.[/quote]
They were the first Awakened Darkspawn. There's no evidence to suggest that he's the first Darkspawn in existence other then a story told by priests.
In fact, there's more evidence to suggest the Primeval Thaig Dwarves are connected to the emergence of the Darkspawn.
[quote] At least nothing about him was inconsistent with that lore. We don't know that the Maker -- if he even exists -- had anything to do with it, but there was nothing inconsistent with the part of the account saying it happened. [/quote]
Considering David Gaider has said that everyone in Thedas believes in some deity or another, I'd say that's a good indication that the Maker's real.
Which is irrelevant really.
All we know for certain is that the Magisters invaded the City -- be it truly Golden or Black on the inside -- and became the first Awakened Darkspawn.
But Corypheus' statements can be taken to imply that it was never Golden truly, and only appeared such. This all comes down to what you wish to take as the real interpretation: that it was Golden or that it wasn't Golden but appeared such on the outside.
[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
And that it was initially "golden", before they arrived.[/quote]
Only to the eye from the outside looking in, so to speak. We don't know what the inside of it actually was.
[quote]
Yes, yes I agree. Let's not dispute that!
There seems to be some bare bones truth in the lore on which the Chantry account is based, but the Chantry took those facts and really, really embellished them to support their view of the Maker and his attitude.[/quote]
And yet you're saying their whole entire story -- aside from a few things -- is entirely correct. That they did in fact taint the city and turn it black, when there's nothing to suggest that. That they were the first Darkspawn in existence, when there's nothing to support that either.
All that is known for certain is that the Magisters invaded a City that appeared Golden, became the first Awakened Darkspawn, and that the City was from that point on blackened to anyone that looks upon it. And that they went back to Thedas really worse for wear.
We do not know if the City was in fact tainted by their presence. All we have to support such an idea is a Chantry story, right on a few things and wrong on others. We have no concrete evidence that the City was truly Golden.
What we do have concrete evidence on is that it appeared Golden. But that's not the same thing. Appearances can deceive, after all.
And who better to deceive people then a Trickster God, whose existence has been confirmed by the Emergent Compendium?
I still think that you and others draw all the wrong inferences from Corypheus's words.[/quote]
You can think that, but I feel there's far more evidence to say the City was Black before their invasion then that it became Black as a result of it.
[quote]
First, what you've quoted is not the operative phrase from Corypheus, but let's look at it anyway:[/quote]
Unless I'm misunderstanding your use of the word operative, I'd like to point out that those two sentences are word for word what he says.
Well, with the minor exclusion of "The City!" in front of the "It was supposed to be Golden..." segment.
[quote]
"It was supposed to be Golden! It was supposed to be ours!" This phrase doesn't dispel the Chantry account.[/quote]
I'm not saying it does. I am saying however, that it creates a reasonable level of doubt on the veracity of the story. It all comes down to who you want to believe more: the person who actually did the deed or the people who merely wrote a tale about the deed, centuries after it happened.
Me? Well, I'll lean towards the former.
[quote]
If it turned black on the magisters, then they indeed would say that "it was supposed to be golden".[/quote]
They'd also say "We saw the golden light vanish before our eyes, replaced by darkness."
[quote]Do you believe they intentionally travelled to a black city?[/quote]
Certainly, that was never in contention. Their reasons for doing so, however, are not what the Chantry claims. The Chantry claims they wanted to usurp the power of the Maker for themselves.
In reality, they were offered false promises by Dumat -- or someone pretending to be Dumat, possibly Fen'Harel -- where they were promised the power of the Old Gods.
[quote] You can see the city from the fade, whether its golden or black. It's implicit that when they embarked to the city, it was golden, but when they arrived it was black.[/quote]
Indeed. What they viewed was a shining fortress city radiating a valiant golden aura. What they saw was a ruined and decadent city filled with naught but despair and darkness.
This, however, doesn't prove that they tainted it with their being there. Or even with anything they did. All it proves is that it was Golden to their eyes when they weren't there and Black before them when they were.
Which, as we're discussing, has a few different interpretations as to the truth of the matter.
[quote]
This confirms that when they embarked for the city, it was the "golden light". When they arrived, they found it black. If the magisters embarked for a golden city, but upon arrival it turned black, what would you expect them to say? They were never in the city while it was gold, because for some reason it turned black between the time they departed and the moment of their arrival. We don't know why it might have turned black, but if there's one thing that's clear it's that it was gold when they departed -- or else they'd never have gone -- and black when they arrived.[/quote]
It only appeared golden to them. There isn't any proof that it was actually Golden on the inside.
[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
But that doesn't mean the Chantry account of the magisters travelling to the Golden City and causing it to turn black isn't true.[/quote]
It doesn't mean they're right either. If they were exaggerating one detail, how do we know what else hasn't been "fluffed" to the point of being nothing but hot air.
[quote]
It likely wasn't the Maker who cursed them and turned the city black, but it was some reaction or phenomenon that did it. Corypheus confirms the existence of a golden city; that's what the magisters were striving for. The golden light was the very reason they travelled there in the first place. Why it was black upon their arrival is unknown, and that's ALL you can take from Corypheus.[/quote]
His statements imply that it was never Golden. If this was a wrong interpretation, then I'm sure some of the devs would've said "Nope. Uh-uh, sorry".
All you can take from what he says is that it appeared Golden. There's nothing to indicate it was ever golden on the inside. Only that it was golden on the outside.
[quote]Corypheus doesn't confirm anything about the Maker's existence or Andrasteism. By the same token it doesn't dispel the account of the Golden City turning black upon the arrival of the magisters. It pretty much confirms that.[/quote]
You can't confirm that it turned black because of them. All you can take from his statements is that it appeared Golden on the outside and was corrupt on the inside.
That does not, however, suggest that its defilement was because of him.
[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Okay, maybe I wasn't too clear on this: The "event" I've been talking about is the existence of a Golden City and it turning black upon the arrival of the magisters. That part of the Chantry account seems verified.[/quote]
You can't confirm it based on what was said. Again, all that's definitively known is that it seemed Golden on the outside and was black on the inside.
Using an Andrastian's beliefs to confirm an Andrastian tale is... pretty silly.
[quote]
I'm not making this argument to bolster the authenticity of the Chantry, I'm just verifying the nature of the lore supplied by Corypheus, and saying that for some reason there was a city exuding golden light, and while it was still golden the magisters travelled there and found it black upon their arrival. [/quote]
Which, again, doesn't point to them having been the reason for its corruption.
[quote]
And, we also could gather that the magisters (as represented by Corypheus) were thereby tainted and were the first darkspawn because we could see Corypheus for ourselves and how he appeared corrupted and transformed.[/quote]
They were the first Awakened Darkspawn. There's no evidence to suggest that he's the first Darkspawn in existence other then a story told by priests.
In fact, there's more evidence to suggest the Primeval Thaig Dwarves are connected to the emergence of the Darkspawn.
[quote] At least nothing about him was inconsistent with that lore. We don't know that the Maker -- if he even exists -- had anything to do with it, but there was nothing inconsistent with the part of the account saying it happened. [/quote]
Considering David Gaider has said that everyone in Thedas believes in some deity or another, I'd say that's a good indication that the Maker's real.
Which is irrelevant really.
All we know for certain is that the Magisters invaded the City -- be it truly Golden or Black on the inside -- and became the first Awakened Darkspawn.
But Corypheus' statements can be taken to imply that it was never Golden truly, and only appeared such. This all comes down to what you wish to take as the real interpretation: that it was Golden or that it wasn't Golden but appeared such on the outside.
[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
And that it was initially "golden", before they arrived.[/quote]
Only to the eye from the outside looking in, so to speak. We don't know what the inside of it actually was.
[quote]
Yes, yes I agree. Let's not dispute that!
There seems to be some bare bones truth in the lore on which the Chantry account is based, but the Chantry took those facts and really, really embellished them to support their view of the Maker and his attitude.[/quote]
And yet you're saying their whole entire story -- aside from a few things -- is entirely correct. That they did in fact taint the city and turn it black, when there's nothing to suggest that. That they were the first Darkspawn in existence, when there's nothing to support that either.
All that is known for certain is that the Magisters invaded a City that appeared Golden, became the first Awakened Darkspawn, and that the City was from that point on blackened to anyone that looks upon it. And that they went back to Thedas really worse for wear.
We do not know if the City was in fact tainted by their presence. All we have to support such an idea is a Chantry story, right on a few things and wrong on others. We have no concrete evidence that the City was truly Golden.
What we do have concrete evidence on is that it appeared Golden. But that's not the same thing. Appearances can deceive, after all.
And who better to deceive people then a Trickster God, whose existence has been confirmed by the Emergent Compendium?
#315
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 02:16
naughty99
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Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...
I don't think the Inquisition is an organization though. It just sounds nice after Dragon age III and it's probably just what this period of conflict will be called. Being called the Inquisitor because you're were the most important person person during this time would fit.
If it is an organization.
Secret Branch would make the most sense if it's not templar associated. But I hope you don't START OUT as commander of anything.
Why some people seem to believe the player will automatically be "The Inquisitor"? Was this announced somewhere?
Doesn't it seem more likely that the player would at the very least have a choice of either rising through the ranks of the Inquisition or some group of insurgent Apostate mages who are persecuted by the Inquisition? Hopefully there will be a number of different interesting factions.
Modifié par naughty99, 24 septembre 2012 - 02:18 .
#316
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 02:44
Zoe
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naughty99 wrote...
Why some people seem to believe the player will automatically be "The Inquisitor"? Was this announced somewhere?
Doesn't it seem more likely that the player would at the very least have a choice of either rising through the ranks of the Inquisition or some group of insurgent Apostate mages who are persecuted by the Inquisition? Hopefully there will be a number of different interesting factions.
There was an unconfirmed marketing survey leaked that said this, but nothing has been officially announced. Hopefully, what you describe in your second paragraph is true. I am waiting to find out.
#317
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 02:55
ElitePinecone
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naughty99 wrote...
Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...
I don't think the Inquisition is an organization though. It just sounds nice after Dragon age III and it's probably just what this period of conflict will be called. Being called the Inquisitor because you're were the most important person person during this time would fit.
If it is an organization.
Secret Branch would make the most sense if it's not templar associated. But I hope you don't START OUT as commander of anything.
Why some people seem to believe the player will automatically be "The Inquisitor"? Was this announced somewhere?
Doesn't it seem more likely that the player would at the very least have a choice of either rising through the ranks of the Inquisition or some group of insurgent Apostate mages who are persecuted by the Inquisition? Hopefully there will be a number of different interesting factions.
It was in the leaked marketing survey.
The player is "The Inquisitor", who leads it from the beginning, with a range of choices as to how to proceed with the investigation. The Inquisition itself is launched in response to an attack from beyond the Veil (it looks like), not in order to hunt down rebel mages. In fact, the Inquisition begins when a peace conference between the Chantry leadership and the mages is attacked and wiped out.
There seem to be a bunch of gameplay/narrative choices about how to conduct the Inquisition, the survey mentions armies, politics, diplomacy and espionage.
#318
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 03:49
naughty99
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ElitePinecone wrote...
naughty99 wrote...
Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...
I don't think the Inquisition is an organization though. It just sounds nice after Dragon age III and it's probably just what this period of conflict will be called. Being called the Inquisitor because you're were the most important person person during this time would fit.
If it is an organization.
Secret Branch would make the most sense if it's not templar associated. But I hope you don't START OUT as commander of anything.
Why some people seem to believe the player will automatically be "The Inquisitor"? Was this announced somewhere?
Doesn't it seem more likely that the player would at the very least have a choice of either rising through the ranks of the Inquisition or some group of insurgent Apostate mages who are persecuted by the Inquisition? Hopefully there will be a number of different interesting factions.
It was in the leaked marketing survey.
The player is "The Inquisitor", who leads it from the beginning, with a range of choices as to how to proceed with the investigation. The Inquisition itself is launched in response to an attack from beyond the Veil (it looks like), not in order to hunt down rebel mages. In fact, the Inquisition begins when a peace conference between the Chantry leadership and the mages is attacked and wiped out.
There seem to be a bunch of gameplay/narrative choices about how to conduct the Inquisition, the survey mentions armies, politics, diplomacy and espionage.
Making the player start out as an Inquisitor would seem to kill any idea of different origin background stories and severely reduce the replay value of this game.
Hopefully that was merely some feature of the early build they were testing in the marketing survey, or perhaps only one out of multiple prologue stories the player can choose to play.
If I want to play an apostate blood mage, an alchemist or a thief, for example, it would be rather strange to start the game as the lead investigator of the Inquisition.
Modifié par naughty99, 24 septembre 2012 - 03:54 .
#319
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 03:53
Morroian
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naughty99 wrote...
Making the player start out as an Inquisitor would seem to kill any idea of different origin background stories and severely reduce the replay value of this game.
They said a while ago that most probably they would go with a Mass Effect style background choice.
#320
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 03:55
Vandicus
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Morroian wrote...
naughty99 wrote...
Making the player start out as an Inquisitor would seem to kill any idea of different origin background stories and severely reduce the replay value of this game.
They said a while ago that most probably they would go with a Mass Effect style background choice.
Also they said specializations would have greater meaning, and that the player might only be able to choose one in each playthrough.
#321
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 03:59
ElitePinecone
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naughty99 wrote...
Making the player start out as an Inquisitor would seem to kill any idea of different origin background stories and severely reduce the replay value of this game.
The player leads the Inquisition from the beginning, but we don't know if the game starts with the Inquisition starting (if that makes sense).
There's some sort of peace conference in Orlais that gets attacked before the Inquisition begins, so it's always possible the first segment of the game is set at that gathering - getting to know the lore of Thedas and the situation of what's happening with the mages/Templars, Orlais' civil war, etc.
In fact, I think there's a lot of potential for background stories ("the Inquisitor" always gets involved in defending against the attack on the conference, but who were they before that?), particularly when origins based on class or profession would give us another way to customise the character and learn a bit more unique lore from that background's perspective. A mage attending the conference who later becomes the Inquisitor would have a really different worldview than a city rogue or Templar, if they were hypothetical possible origins.
I really, really doubt that we'll just be plopped down into the boots of The Inquisitor from the first second of the game, with no idea what's going on or who we are. Playing through the sequence that turns out character into the Inquisitor is surely going to be part of DA3.
Hopefully we find out more soon, though.
#322
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 04:10
Dave of Canada
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If you start the game as a mage, you're made tranquil immediately and you're put in a store-room. The entire game is about the live and times of your protagonist, he who makes knick-knacks to sell for money.
Experience crafting in real time, press a button and something moderately indifferent happens.
Experience crafting in real time, press a button and something moderately indifferent happens.
#323
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 04:31
ElitePinecone
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Morroian wrote...
naughty99 wrote...
Making the player start out as an Inquisitor would seem to kill any idea of different origin background stories and severely reduce the replay value of this game.
They said a while ago that most probably they would go with a Mass Effect style background choice.
Oh yeah, I remember hearing that.
It sounds like customisation of a more defined character, somewhere in the middle of no background options at all (Hawke) and a distinct set of five or six quite fleshed-out origins (the Warden). But even in Origins' case, the backgrounds themselves have limited impacts on the game beyond some dialogue changes and (probably more significantly) some of the plot choices available to the player.
If they did use a Mass Effect-style system and actually gave the backgrounds some weight, I think it could work really well. ME did okay in the first game with a unique quest but beyond a couple of dialogue references the backgrounds were totally forgotten by ME2/ME3.
#324
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 09:08
LobselVith8
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Dave of Canada wrote...
If you start the game as a mage, you're made tranquil immediately and you're put in a store-room. The entire game is about the live and times of your protagonist, he who makes knick-knacks to sell for money.
Experience crafting in real time, press a button and something moderately indifferent happens.
That explains so much about Dragon Age II.
#325
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 09:46
Heimdall
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You'll be the Inquisitor, but in Origins you were the Warden. Having the player be the inquisitor doesn't mean that the way they got there will be the same or even fully voluntary (Or that the position of lead inquisitor isn't taken simply because your superiors kicked the bucket).naughty99 wrote...
Making the player start out as an Inquisitor would seem to kill any idea of different origin background stories and severely reduce the replay value of this game.
Hopefully that was merely some feature of the early build they were testing in the marketing survey, or perhaps only one out of multiple prologue stories the player can choose to play.
If I want to play an apostate blood mage, an alchemist or a thief, for example, it would be rather strange to start the game as the lead investigator of the Inquisition.
I don't think it's confirmed that we START as a member of the Inquisition.
Modifié par Lord Aesir, 24 septembre 2012 - 09:54 .
