327 réponses à ce sujet

[berelinde]

The mage origin story is more "prisoner of the chantry" than a card-carrying member of the organization.

As for the companions, blech. Of the ones in the leaked survey, the only one that even remotely interests me is Cullen. Dorian sounds kinda bland, Sera seems like yet another spunky elf chick, and the Iron Bull sounds like Oghren with a less colorful vocabulary. But, as others have pointed out, we don't know anything yet. More info will emerge. Perhaps those companion suggestions were the "Plan B" choices. And at the moment, it looks as if I won't be buying the game so it doesn't matter *who* the companions are.

As I have said many, many times, I will wait and see. At the present, the information we have all points to "no sale," but we'll see. A lot can change between now and "late 2013" but my gaming preferences will not.

The point of this post was to make BioWare aware of my concerns as a player and as a longtime fan. Because if I'm thinking it, others will be, too. Sure, they can ignore every post that isn't 100% endorsement or squeeage, but ignoring the concerns voiced by fans before the release of DA2 did not prove financially advantageous for them. Sure, DA2 had a lot of preorders because of the success of DAO, but DA3 is going to reap the rewards of DA2. A lot of players are already dissatisfied with railroading and choices that don't matter. Taking one step closer toward a fixed protagonist is not going to help overcome those concerns.

Anyway, I've said all I wanted to say on the subject. At this point, there is nothing to do but wait for more information.

[Master Shiori]

berelinde wrote...

No offense Master Shiori, but are you familiar with the lore? If the group is meant to be something completely independent of its historical counterpart, they probably should have chosen a different name.

I'm familiar with the lore, yes. I know that the original inquisition was reformed into the modern Chantry templars.

That, however, is completely irrelevant since there's nothing to indicate that this new inquistion is in any way related to the old one, or that it's even an organization to begin with.

Please, wait until we have more info before you jump on the "this doesn't fit (my understanding of) the lore" badwagon.

[Vandicus]

berelinde wrote...

Sorry, Vandicus, that argument isn't going to fly. The Grey Wardens as an organization have no political or religious affiliations. Individuals may harbor whatever views they want, but as a group, their only concern is stopping the Blight.

My characters *do* have beliefs that stem from their backgrounds. They are all different. I would like it to stay that way rather than being locked into only one choice. Most of the characters I run are mages. One or two have been Andrastian, but it makes much more sense to run characters that actively reject the faith that has rejected them. Something along the lines of "Wait, you priests have been telling me since birth that mages are Maker-cursed and now you expect me to do *what* for you? GTFO."

The Grey Wardens as an organization converted to the worship of Andraste after the 2nd blight.

http://dragonage.wik...ki/Grey_Wardens 

They also have a political ideology governing their behavior, their belief in non-intervention. Given the Wardens can ignore these beliefs on an individual basis, but much like the Chantry the Wardens have their own particular philosophy and beliefs that they try to get their members to share. 


As for your mage example I believe the Qunari mage from DA2 is a good example of how background can change one's beliefs. With sufficient "education" its very possible and reasonable to have  a character with a set of beliefs that seem contradictory with their status. Just because the character might start with these pro-Chantry beliefs doesn't mean they have to keep them.

[ElitePinecone]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

By its definition, an inquisition is an "institutional organization" created to root out heresy. The Inquisition also has the power to try and execute heretics. Why a mage would be trusted and utilized for such an institution is going to depend on the clever writing skills of the DA team.

Now if Bioware doesn't intend to use the Inquisition in these terms than perhaps they should have chosen a different word to describe what they do mean.

No, that's one definition - probably the most well known one, but not the only possible meaning of the word.

The etymology of 'inquisition' is Latin, coming from inquīrere, which only means "to investigate", and is a cognate with the English word 'inquire'.

By definition the word only refers to an inquiry or investigation of any sort - religious, political, military, whatever. 

[berelinde]

I do not want to play a mage who has been brainwashed, thanks.

Guys, it's my money. There is no benefit to pre-ordering a game that is shaping up to be one I won't enjoy. It's also my opinion, and just as valid as everyone else's. Based on the information we have so far, it doesn't look good. That assessment may change as more information becomes available.

It does nobody any good to sit silently and not voice valid concerns. At this point, BioWare would have to be blind not to appreciate that some players have strenuous reservations and serious misgivings about the information that has been presented, but it is still important that these opinions are seen. This is a discussion forum intended for player concerns as well as fan ebullience.

"Please, wait until we have more info before you jump on the "this doesn't fit (my understanding of) the lore" badwagon."

Ditto. This quote is just as applicable to those that imagine a kinder, gentler Inquisition.

[macrocarl]

The devs said that they were aware that players who chose a mage class felt that there wasn't much difference playing a free to roam spell caster during DA2 and that class selection would have more impact moving forward. I'm pretty excited to see how that pans out story wise.

[Jerrybnsn]

ElitePinecone wrote...


, an Inquisition in name but not in nature. :

......Adopting the namesake of an Inquisition while explicitly rejecting its methods and brutality ..........

???

[Huntress]

Cultist wrote...

I want to see how they will handle Blood Mage Inquisitor.

I know how!


meh.

Modifié par Huntress, 18 septembre 2012 - 02:48 .

[Jerrybnsn]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

By its definition, an inquisition is an "institutional organization" created to root out heresy.

Now if Bioware doesn't intend to use the Inquisition in these terms than perhaps they should have chosen a different word to describe what they do mean.

No, that's one definition - probably the most well known one, but not the only possible meaning of the word.

The etymology of 'inquisition' is Latin, coming from inquīrere, which only means "to investigate", and is a cognate with the English word 'inquire'.

By definition the word only refers to an inquiry or investigation of any sort - religious, political, military, whatever. 

"Inquire" meaning in Latin " to ask"  but for what purpose?   The definition of an inquisition is an official inquirey or an "official investigation, especially one of a political or religious nature".  I don't think you can use the word inquisition in any other meaning because the -tion in the word makes it an institu--tion. 

If they mean just an investigation (which is from a different Latin root than inquisition--to put time in discovering a story of events) than why not use that word instead if that is really what they mean?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 18 septembre 2012 - 02:54 .

[Heimdall]

If the leak was correct, the Inquisition is an entirely new organization founded for the purpose of discovering the puppeteer behind the Mage Templar war, probably by the moderate chantry faction.

[Heimdall]

berelinde wrote...

I do not want to play a mage who has been brainwashed, thanks.

Guys, it's my money. There is no benefit to pre-ordering a game that is shaping up to be one I won't enjoy. It's also my opinion, and just as valid as everyone else's. Based on the information we have so far, it doesn't look good. That assessment may change as more information becomes available.

It does nobody any good to sit silently and not voice valid concerns. At this point, BioWare would have to be blind not to appreciate that some players have strenuous reservations and serious misgivings about the information that has been presented, but it is still important that these opinions are seen. This is a discussion forum intended for player concerns as well as fan ebullience.

"Please, wait until we have more info before you jump on the "this doesn't fit (my understanding of) the lore" badwagon."

Ditto. This quote is just as applicable to those that imagine a kinder, gentler Inquisition.

Do you honestly think Bioware would force you to play a zealot?

And I'm not imagining anything, I'm just going by the so far accurate leak.

[ElitePinecone]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...


, an Inquisition in name but not in nature. :

......Adopting the namesake of an Inquisition while explicitly rejecting its methods and brutality ..........

???

There's an element of player choice in there. 

Assuming the Inquisition is a new organisation, with the player at is head, 'we' get to choose how the investigtion proceeds. It doesn't have to echo the methods of the actual, historical Inquisition, even if it uses the name. The player *could* be a brutal religious zealot, or a brutal mage-supporting zealot, or a lenient supporter of a certain Orlesian faction, or a Ferelden ideologue, or a mage with delusions of grandeur. 

It'll depend on the level of player agency in the main storyline and sidequests, but given what information we have I can easily see choices about which methods to use, which factions to back, which priorities to pursue, etc, all being possibilities. 

[Jerrybnsn]

^ Then let's first ask the question, "what are they asking for?"   What do they need to ask?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 18 septembre 2012 - 03:13 .

[ElitePinecone]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

"Inquire" meaning in Latin " to ask"  but for what purpose?   The definition of an inquisition is an official inquirey or an "official investigation, especially one of a political or religious nature".  I don't think you can use the word inquisition in any other meaning because the -tion in the word makes it an institu--tion. 

Yes, it's an organisation set up for a specific purpose which is spoilerrific. It appropriates the title of an older institution, but a new official inquiry into the cause of something using extreme methods is, by definition, an inquisition. It doesn't need to have a religious justification because the word inquisition is not implicitly religious. 

Calling it "Dragon Age: Investgation" would be... a terrible idea. A protagonist called "The Investigator"?

[Jerrybnsn]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Yes, it's an organisation set up for a specific purpose which is spoilerrific. It appropriates the title of an older institution, but a new official inquiry into the cause of something using extreme methods is, by definition, an inquisition. It doesn't need to have a religious justification because the word inquisition is not implicitly religious. 

True....in that it doesn't have to be a Chantry organization.  For all we know it could be a Tevinter organization, or a special Orleasian Empire organization.

But if Cassandra is going to be a companion, and it seems very, very, very likely that she will, I'm assuming here that it's an official Chantry organization set up to inquire about......what?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 18 septembre 2012 - 03:23 .

[berelinde]

If the organization is not meant to have religious affiliations, why take the name of the organization that became the templars?

Isabela would say "Because they didn't have a thesaurus."
Anders would say "To instill fear in the hearts of mages. Terror is the chantry's favorite weapon."
Fenris would say "Because it sounds imposing."
Varric would say "Who cares? It's a bunch of humans in skirts."
Sebastian would say "That cloud over there looks like a bunny rabbit."

berelinde says "We'll find out in time. Until then, we'll have to assume that Edmonton is supplied with thesauruses and that the word was chosen for a reason. Possibly to enforce the connection with the earlier institution, which brings us back to square one."

[Huntress]

Vandicus wrote...

The Grey Wardens as an organization converted to the worship of Andraste after the 2nd blight.

http://dragonage.wik...ki/Grey_Wardens 

They also have a political ideology governing their behavior, their belief in non-intervention. Given the Wardens can ignore these beliefs on an individual basis, but much like the Chantry the Wardens have their own particular philosophy and beliefs that they try to get their members to share. 


As for your mage example I believe the Qunari mage from DA2 is a good example of how background can change one's beliefs. With sufficient "education" its very possible and reasonable to have  a character with a set of beliefs that seem contradictory with their status. Just because the character might start with these pro-Chantry beliefs doesn't mean they have to keep them.

I don't want this post to turn in a war but, the wardens are more... "loose" about religion because they are going to die earlier and they need more people to keep their rank with a "healthy" number to stop blights, I dought they'll go around praising the maker and cursing at todays mages while trying to recruit say mages who are er...un-happy with their jail for life style.

Joining the warden is a death sentence do NOT fool yourself.

People think inquisitor are different and even compare them to the qunari.. really??? meh.
maybe they are a bit different but if they are Humans then they came from andrastian-maker loving parents, they know the chant of life and how magic is very bad and anyone who posses it is cursed by the maker itself.

Literally, an inquisitor is one who "searches out" or "inquires".
for who? you wonder..  for things contrary to their doctrine or teachings of their faith.

so again we go in full circle is  this  a group dominated by humans ? yes
Does this humans believe in Andraste? yes, unless they come from Rivain, who 90% of the population believe in the qun.
do this humans belive in The maker? probably, if they do not come from outside the Chantry dominion then yes they do believe in the Maker..

see thats why is way better to have someone like that as a companion as to be forced to be one.

I know "some mages" are happy with serving under the chantry, to be sincere I don't give a flink about them, the ones I care about are the ones I create, hoping that bioware make the main character free to
join any given groups as a choice and not to force us to play as one.

my final thoughts: Add more origens and races to Da3 I want to be en elf.

Modifié par Huntress, 18 septembre 2012 - 03:38 .

[Jerrybnsn]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Calling it "Dragon Age: Investgation" would be... a terrible idea. A protagonist called "The Investigator"?

I agree its a terrible idea, and not just because it's a four syllable word used in a title either.  An investigation is a noun of what someone does to lay out the facts of a series of events.  An Inquisition is a noun of what something is.

So what is the raison d'etre of this particular Inquisition? 

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 18 septembre 2012 - 03:33 .

[ElitePinecone]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

True....in that it doesn't have to be a Chantry organization.  For all we know it could be a Tevinter organization, or a special Orleasian Empire organization.

But if Cassandra is going to be a companion, and it seems very, very, very likely that she will, I'm assuming here that it's an official Chantry organization set up to inquire about......what?

Spoilers:

Most of the Chantry's leadership is wiped out at a peace conference designed to stop the chaos in Thedas. It's hinted to be some sort of breach in the Veil that lets demons roam around the land. After this, it becomes clear that some unseen force is behind all the chaos, manipulating warring factions for its own purposes. The point of the Inquisition is to travel around the world finding out who is behind it all, and for what purpose. The Inquisition has to intervene in the conflicts. find out who is working to promote the disorder, and stop them. 

The reason I'm so skeptical that this is a Chantry thing is because the Inquisition emerges from the literal ashes of the Chantry, I'd suspect the 'Chantry' people we have in our party (Cassandra, Cullen) join the Inquisition precisely because there's no Chantry left for them to work with. Particularly when the Seekers have already broken away, and the Templars fell apart to hunt down mages.

[Jerrybnsn]

Huntress wrote...


my final thoughts: Add more origens and races to Da3 I want to be en elf.

Oh, now you are just asking for all kinds of trouble if you start asking for that.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 18 septembre 2012 - 03:52 .

[upsettingshorts]

berelinde wrote...

[Jerrybnsn]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

True....in that it doesn't have to be a Chantry organization.  For all we know it could be a Tevinter organization, or a special Orleasian Empire organization.

But if Cassandra is going to be a companion, and it seems very, very, very likely that she will, I'm assuming here that it's an official Chantry organization set up to inquire about......what?

Spoilers:

Most of the Chantry's leadership is wiped out at a peace conference designed to stop the chaos in Thedas. It's hinted to be some sort of breach in the Veil that lets demons roam around the land. After this, it becomes clear that some unseen force is behind all the chaos, manipulating warring factions for its own purposes. The point of the Inquisition is to travel around the world finding out who is behind it all, and for what purpose. The Inquisition has to intervene in the conflicts. find out who is working to promote the disorder, and stop them. 

The reason I'm so skeptical that this is a Chantry thing is because the Inquisition emerges from the literal ashes of the Chantry, I'd suspect the 'Chantry' people we have in our party (Cassandra, Cullen) join the Inquisition precisely because there's no Chantry left for them to work with. Particularly when the Seekers have already broken away, and the Templars fell apart to hunt down mages.

Oh, that does make sense.  But why would this be a spoiler?  Shouldn't everyone know that it is an actual Inquisiton hunting down  *Spoilers* which even mages would be involved.  The plot of having to chose between mages and templars won't exist.  Whew!

One thing Bioware needs to do is have a thorough prologue to this game, or there's going to be massive plotholes having people scratching their heads like I have been since "Inquisition" was announced yesterday.  A lot of catching up to do.   And I even read Asunder.   I still don't see why we can't mention *spoilers*?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:05 .

[Vandicus]

Huntress wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

The Grey Wardens as an organization converted to the worship of Andraste after the 2nd blight.

http://dragonage.wik...ki/Grey_Wardens 

They also have a political ideology governing their behavior, their belief in non-intervention. Given the Wardens can ignore these beliefs on an individual basis, but much like the Chantry the Wardens have their own particular philosophy and beliefs that they try to get their members to share. 


As for your mage example I believe the Qunari mage from DA2 is a good example of how background can change one's beliefs. With sufficient "education" its very possible and reasonable to have  a character with a set of beliefs that seem contradictory with their status. Just because the character might start with these pro-Chantry beliefs doesn't mean they have to keep them.

I don't want this post to turn in a war but, the wardens are more... "loose" about religion because they are going to die earlier and they need more people to keep their rank with a "healthy" number to stop blights, I dought they'll go around praising the maker and cursing at todays mages while trying to recruit say mages who are er...un-happy with their jail for life style.

Joining the warden is a death sentence do NOT fool yourself.

How loose or not the Wardens are with religion is a matter of speculation. That side never really gets investigated with the Wardens, after all we only ever meet a small handful of them. 

The organization itself identifies itself as Andraste worshippers following the Chantry doctrine. That's their official religion, like a country might have an official language.

"
Fortunately, the armies of the recently founded Orlesian Empire under the command of Emperor Kordillus Drakon Iproved both motivated and capable of standing up to the Blight. After several victories against the darkspawn, Drakon's army lifted the siege of Weisshaupt in 1:33 Divine and proceeded to save the rest of the Anderfels together with the Wardens. The Anderfels joined with the Orlesian Empire, and the Grey Wardens were sufficiently impressed by Drakon's actions to convert to the Chantry of Andraste. "

The relevant text there. 

Furthermore most mages worship Andraste/The Maker as well. Its simply the predominant religion. Does being a worshipper of Andraste automatically make one a mage hater? No.

Anyways, my original point that the Warden was a character forced to join an organization with an official religious and political stance(worship of Andraste and nonintervention) still stands. If the DA3 is forced to join/lead an organization with particular religious beliefs that they may or may not share/agree with, it will be no different than being Warden Commander in Fereldan. The official religion of the Wardens? Andrastian. The official religion of the Inquisition? Andrastian(probably, assuming they even have an official religion). Does the Warden commander have to be Andrastian to lead the Grey Wardens? No, he can be a dalish elf worshipping those zany elven deities. 

[berelinde]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Trivializing other people's concerns.

I can do it, too.

The purpose of my participation in this discussion was to state reservations I have about the game. I have done so, and I hope BioWare listens. If they don't, it's their loss. They have other fans.

[Jerrybnsn]

berelinde wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Trivializing other people's concerns.

I can do it, too.

The purpose of my participation in this discussion was to state reservations I have about the game. I have done so, and I hope BioWare listens. If they don't, it's their loss. They have other fans.

Before the whole Mage/Templar conflict, where you okay with starting out as a mage inside the circle?  Well,  your new protagonist (if you choose a mage...human of course...)  is how this character will start out as, just that everything has fallen apart and you and your team are on a quest to root out the evil cause that must be stamped out to save the world of Thedas.....you won't have to choose sides in the mage/templar conflict.  You'll be above that.

I hope.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 18 septembre 2012 - 04:17 .